'85 Expedition - keep vintage or update?
07-06-11, 07:18 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
'85 Expedition - keep vintage or update?
I have a beautiful, minty, 1985 Specialized Expedition (see pics below). The frame is my size (60x58) and everything on the bike is in perfect condition and I am not even sure the original owner rode it. The problem is that it isn't very comfortable for me because the cockpit and shifting. In addition, I tend not to enjoy riding down tube shifting bikes nearly as much as brifters or bar ends shifters. I keep one bike with down tube shifters (1985 Pinarello) and that is enough for me. So, the advice I seek is whether it is better to take a beautiful vintage bike and update it or sell it to someone who wants an old vintage bike and use the funds to partially buy a new bike (in this case a Bruce Gordon BLT). I know this is a very special frame but in order to be comfortable for me to ride I need to make a few changes.
As it sits right now I have lots of interest for the Expedition if I do decide to sell it. It is worth a good amount because it is minty. Once it is ridden and scuffed up a bit the value will probably go down to a standard Expedition price. I want a bike for mostly commuting to work and then to take out on some light touring (I have a salsa Fargo for heavy loading touring). Also, I am more inclined to ride a bike that is comfortable and easy (read: no down tube shifters). So, I think I have two options, sell this as is and take the money and buy something like a Bruce Gordon BLT with SLX for under $2000 to my doorstep. I get a nice new bike with newer oversized tubing and some nice racks to boot. Second, I could update the Expedition and keep all those vintage parts in the attic in case of rebuild time.
There are two ways I could update the Expedition. First, a quick fix to make it more comfortable.
Noodle Bars (46)
Chain ring to make it more smooth (48-44-32 is too big a jump for me)
Bar end Shifters (probably retrofriction or suntour)
More comfortable brake levers
Brake pads
Seat (Brooks B17)
I am estimating those changes to be about $400
In addition, I could do a full update which would include everything above and...
Crank/BB
Bar End Shifters
Cassette
Rear D
Front D
Chain
For Diore XT it would be $522 and SLX $416 new at Nashbar. I would then need a new pair of 36 hole wheels and probably get a SON in front at that point or maybe add it later. $600 for wheels outside of SON? So, add a complete update I am looking at about $1400-1500. Does that sound about right? Then I have a vintage rig running a nice setup. But, is that really better then a BLT with new SLX for $2000 minus the sale of this bike?
Love the input...
GG
About the bike: It has all original equipment except for the seat, tires (replace with Specialized Armadillos), tape (replaced with Brooks leather) and fenders (replaced with Honjo). Except for the saddle, the replacement parts have essentially 15 miles on them. Here are lots photos: Bike: Specialized Expedition - a set on Flickr
As it sits right now I have lots of interest for the Expedition if I do decide to sell it. It is worth a good amount because it is minty. Once it is ridden and scuffed up a bit the value will probably go down to a standard Expedition price. I want a bike for mostly commuting to work and then to take out on some light touring (I have a salsa Fargo for heavy loading touring). Also, I am more inclined to ride a bike that is comfortable and easy (read: no down tube shifters). So, I think I have two options, sell this as is and take the money and buy something like a Bruce Gordon BLT with SLX for under $2000 to my doorstep. I get a nice new bike with newer oversized tubing and some nice racks to boot. Second, I could update the Expedition and keep all those vintage parts in the attic in case of rebuild time.
There are two ways I could update the Expedition. First, a quick fix to make it more comfortable.
Noodle Bars (46)
Chain ring to make it more smooth (48-44-32 is too big a jump for me)
Bar end Shifters (probably retrofriction or suntour)
More comfortable brake levers
Brake pads
Seat (Brooks B17)
I am estimating those changes to be about $400
In addition, I could do a full update which would include everything above and...
Crank/BB
Bar End Shifters
Cassette
Rear D
Front D
Chain
For Diore XT it would be $522 and SLX $416 new at Nashbar. I would then need a new pair of 36 hole wheels and probably get a SON in front at that point or maybe add it later. $600 for wheels outside of SON? So, add a complete update I am looking at about $1400-1500. Does that sound about right? Then I have a vintage rig running a nice setup. But, is that really better then a BLT with new SLX for $2000 minus the sale of this bike?
Love the input...
GG
About the bike: It has all original equipment except for the seat, tires (replace with Specialized Armadillos), tape (replaced with Brooks leather) and fenders (replaced with Honjo). Except for the saddle, the replacement parts have essentially 15 miles on them. Here are lots photos: Bike: Specialized Expedition - a set on Flickr
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07-07-11, 12:48 AM
#2
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It's a great bike, and it looks to be in beautiful condition, but it was built by the thousand in a factory somewhere.
If you want to have a project bike, it's a great starting platform. Better touring frames are hard to come by, and the Expedition has a lot of cachet. However, if you want a bike to ride, especially without all the futzing around of a vintage built, sell it and put the money towards a new bike.
Either choice is morally acceptable; there is nothing wrong with riding a bike, that's what they were made for.
If you want to have a project bike, it's a great starting platform. Better touring frames are hard to come by, and the Expedition has a lot of cachet. However, if you want a bike to ride, especially without all the futzing around of a vintage built, sell it and put the money towards a new bike.
Either choice is morally acceptable; there is nothing wrong with riding a bike, that's what they were made for.
07-07-11, 07:20 AM
#3
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I would NOT change the chainrings from half step gearing.
You mention Suntour bar end shifters. Less common but good bar end shifters were also made by Shimano. Suntour had a ratchet mechanism, Shimano instead had return springs built into the shifters to counter act the springs in the derailleurs, allowing a light friction setting. Both Suntour and Shimano friction shifters would be a very nice upgrade.
From the photo it looks like a Suntour LeTech front derailleur. If so, keep it. I found some new old stock ones and bought a lifetime supply for all of my bikes. I have a strong preference for high normal front derailleurs.
I know what you mean about shifting, I prefer index shifting. But I have not sold my 61 or 62 Italian racing bike because I like the old classics.
You mention Suntour bar end shifters. Less common but good bar end shifters were also made by Shimano. Suntour had a ratchet mechanism, Shimano instead had return springs built into the shifters to counter act the springs in the derailleurs, allowing a light friction setting. Both Suntour and Shimano friction shifters would be a very nice upgrade.
From the photo it looks like a Suntour LeTech front derailleur. If so, keep it. I found some new old stock ones and bought a lifetime supply for all of my bikes. I have a strong preference for high normal front derailleurs.
I know what you mean about shifting, I prefer index shifting. But I have not sold my 61 or 62 Italian racing bike because I like the old classics.
07-07-11, 08:31 AM
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Wow, I see the dilema. If it were me, I`d probably keep the Expedition frame and put on whatever components it took to keep me from longing too much for modern conveniences, then go out and give it some tender loving abuse. Beautiful lugged frame, aluminum quill stem, gum hooded non-aero levers- tasty...
There`s definitely something to be said for keeping it pristine, though. I don`t know what kind of money it would fetch right now, but I`m sure you`re right about the value dropping considerably when that original paint gets scratched, abraded, and faded, even if most of the stock components are stashed safely in a cardboard coffin somewhere. Either way makes sense depending on how you look at it, so I guess just follow your heart. And thanks for posting the porn
There`s definitely something to be said for keeping it pristine, though. I don`t know what kind of money it would fetch right now, but I`m sure you`re right about the value dropping considerably when that original paint gets scratched, abraded, and faded, even if most of the stock components are stashed safely in a cardboard coffin somewhere. Either way makes sense depending on how you look at it, so I guess just follow your heart. And thanks for posting the porn
07-07-11, 08:33 AM
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I would just sell it and get something that you are comfortable riding. Its a rad bike, and if I lived anywhere near you I would buy that things off of you! Its worth a lot more in that condition, and someone out there would really enjoy it.
07-07-11, 08:58 AM
#6
-
Sell it. Spend your time on riding, not planning a build, shopping for parts, disassembly, reassembly, and numerous tune-up rides.
I've built several bikes from parts, including wheels, and occasionally starting with a torch and frame repair, then painting, etc. So, I know the work involved in a proper job. You have a mint used vintage bike - it would be a shame to waste that with a modernization. Go over to C&V and solicit a value estimate, then auction it on eBay. It's the right time of the year to sell that bike!
I've built several bikes from parts, including wheels, and occasionally starting with a torch and frame repair, then painting, etc. So, I know the work involved in a proper job. You have a mint used vintage bike - it would be a shame to waste that with a modernization. Go over to C&V and solicit a value estimate, then auction it on eBay. It's the right time of the year to sell that bike!
07-07-11, 10:40 AM
#7
Banned
Had 1 of those, new, back in the day., those down tube levers reacted well
to a quick,measured, slap , but mine was a 58 [scant standover]not a 60,+ long seat post extension,
so the distance was not so far down ... and I was more flexible and lighter then..
fitted Bruce Gordon's racks on it, and changed chainrings to alpine rather than 1/2 step..
under on the road 4 panniers load, the rear load mass and the pedal stroke, combined,
To flex the top tube slightly with every stroke.. but it served well on several long tours,
just a shade light a tubeset for multi month long loaded touring.
[mine a 58, i was at 160# at the time. you taller it will flex a bit more, I believe..
I don't even think the BLT imports , Bruce designed and sells come that big,
but he will build a frameset in Petaluma that will be, and pick a heavier wall oversize
tube set to suit your purpose.. size and weight .
Go that way rather than another off the shelf mass produced TW import. IMHO.
but as a commuter, ? lots of stuff you can commute on..
dangle it in front of collectors, have them out bid each other..
and take their money ..
to a quick,measured, slap , but mine was a 58 [scant standover]not a 60,+ long seat post extension,
so the distance was not so far down ... and I was more flexible and lighter then..
fitted Bruce Gordon's racks on it, and changed chainrings to alpine rather than 1/2 step..
under on the road 4 panniers load, the rear load mass and the pedal stroke, combined,
To flex the top tube slightly with every stroke.. but it served well on several long tours,
just a shade light a tubeset for multi month long loaded touring.
[mine a 58, i was at 160# at the time. you taller it will flex a bit more, I believe..
I don't even think the BLT imports , Bruce designed and sells come that big,
but he will build a frameset in Petaluma that will be, and pick a heavier wall oversize
tube set to suit your purpose.. size and weight .
Go that way rather than another off the shelf mass produced TW import. IMHO.
but as a commuter, ? lots of stuff you can commute on..
dangle it in front of collectors, have them out bid each other..
and take their money ..
Last edited by fietsbob; 07-07-11 at 05:43 PM.
07-07-11, 10:52 AM
#8
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Most of those changes you listed can be done in a couple days or so if you take your time. then take it on a shakedown ride of about 20 miles to see how it operates under load. Not many touring frames other than custom jobs are as nice as that one. Its a tried and true platform use it as such and make it what you want.
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07-07-11, 11:55 AM
#9
Senior Member
Beautiful bike! Given the condition I would list the bike and get your cash rather than make big modifications. Especially since you have a heavy duty tourer you sound happy with. As fietsbob said you have plenty of options for a commuter and it would be a shame to see this one get dinged up.
I have the same model and really like it although I've had some issues with shimmy if not loaded a certain way. I built mine up from a frame set so I felt no remorse customizing far from the original equipment.
Vintage tourers are hot items right now so you could get a prime return as is.
I have the same model and really like it although I've had some issues with shimmy if not loaded a certain way. I built mine up from a frame set so I felt no remorse customizing far from the original equipment.
Vintage tourers are hot items right now so you could get a prime return as is.
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07-07-11, 02:51 PM
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Thank you everyone for your comments. Right now I am leaning on selling the bike and using it to partially fund a Bruce Gordon BLT purchase. I may even look at a more tradition commuter bike. I think it is probably worth more to someone at this time then to me. will there be any difference in ride quality between a vintage frame like this and a newer BLT or BLT-like frame?
Gug
Gug
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07-07-11, 04:43 PM
#11
Macro Geek
I would keep the old bike only if it could easily be made comfortable by swapping a few components -- e.g., a new stem to raise handlebar height to about the same as the seat. Otherwise, there is no point to keeping a bike that doesn't fit or does not match one's riding style.
I have a Miyata 1000 that is as old as yours, but no longer use it for multi-day tours. (Now I use a custom built True North.) The Miyata is not as comfortable as my True North, and I find I much prefer brifters to down tube shifters.
I have a Miyata 1000 that is as old as yours, but no longer use it for multi-day tours. (Now I use a custom built True North.) The Miyata is not as comfortable as my True North, and I find I much prefer brifters to down tube shifters.
07-07-11, 07:58 PM
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Personally, if given a choice between the Specialized frameset and the BLT frameset (ignoring cost and resale value) I'd choose the Specialized. So for me it's easy: update the Specialized to suit my needs and then ride it. Yes, there's renewed interest in classic tourers, but as pointed out, the Specialized isn't exactly Fausto Coppi's 1949 Tour de France bike. It's unlikely that anyone's buying Specialized Expeditions to hang on the wall. It's going to be ridden one way or the other, so it may as well be ridden by you!
Beyond that, it's not as though you're planning on cutting off the derailleur tab and rattle-canning it. Even if you did someday decide it should be "restored", just unbox the stuff you removed and reinstall it.
Beyond that, it's not as though you're planning on cutting off the derailleur tab and rattle-canning it. Even if you did someday decide it should be "restored", just unbox the stuff you removed and reinstall it.
07-08-11, 12:34 AM
#14
Velocommuter Commando
I have a beautiful, minty, 1985 Specialized Expedition (see pics below). The frame is my size (60x58) and everything on the bike is in perfect condition and I am not even sure the original owner rode it. The problem is that it isn't very comfortable for me because the cockpit and shifting. In addition, I tend not to enjoy riding down tube shifting bikes nearly as much as brifters or bar ends shifters. I keep one bike with down tube shifters (1985 Pinarello) and that is enough for me. So, the advice I seek is whether it is better to take a beautiful vintage bike and update it or sell it to someone who wants an old vintage bike and use the funds to partially buy a new bike (in this case a Bruce Gordon BLT). I know this is a very special frame but in order to be comfortable for me to ride I need to make a few changes.
As it sits right now I have lots of interest for the Expedition if I do decide to sell it. It is worth a good amount because it is minty. Once it is ridden and scuffed up a bit the value will probably go down to a standard Expedition price. I want a bike for mostly commuting to work and then to take out on some light touring (I have a salsa Fargo for heavy loading touring). Also, I am more inclined to ride a bike that is comfortable and easy (read: no down tube shifters). So, I think I have two options, sell this as is and take the money and buy something like a Bruce Gordon BLT with SLX for under $2000 to my doorstep. I get a nice new bike with newer oversized tubing and some nice racks to boot. Second, I could update the Expedition and keep all those vintage parts in the attic in case of rebuild time.
There are two ways I could update the Expedition. First, a quick fix to make it more comfortable.
Noodle Bars (46)
Chain ring to make it more smooth (48-44-32 is too big a jump for me)
Bar end Shifters (probably retrofriction or suntour)
More comfortable brake levers
Brake pads
Seat (Brooks B17)
I am estimating those changes to be about $400
In addition, I could do a full update which would include everything above and...
Crank/BB
Bar End Shifters
Cassette
Rear D
Front D
Chain
For Diore XT it would be $522 and SLX $416 new at Nashbar. I would then need a new pair of 36 hole wheels and probably get a SON in front at that point or maybe add it later. $600 for wheels outside of SON? So, add a complete update I am looking at about $1400-1500. Does that sound about right? Then I have a vintage rig running a nice setup. But, is that really better then a BLT with new SLX for $2000 minus the sale of this bike?
Love the input...
GG
About the bike: It has all original equipment except for the seat, tires (replace with Specialized Armadillos), tape (replaced with Brooks leather) and fenders (replaced with Honjo). Except for the saddle, the replacement parts have essentially 15 miles on them. Here are lots photos: Bike: Specialized Expedition - a set on Flickr
As it sits right now I have lots of interest for the Expedition if I do decide to sell it. It is worth a good amount because it is minty. Once it is ridden and scuffed up a bit the value will probably go down to a standard Expedition price. I want a bike for mostly commuting to work and then to take out on some light touring (I have a salsa Fargo for heavy loading touring). Also, I am more inclined to ride a bike that is comfortable and easy (read: no down tube shifters). So, I think I have two options, sell this as is and take the money and buy something like a Bruce Gordon BLT with SLX for under $2000 to my doorstep. I get a nice new bike with newer oversized tubing and some nice racks to boot. Second, I could update the Expedition and keep all those vintage parts in the attic in case of rebuild time.
There are two ways I could update the Expedition. First, a quick fix to make it more comfortable.
Noodle Bars (46)
Chain ring to make it more smooth (48-44-32 is too big a jump for me)
Bar end Shifters (probably retrofriction or suntour)
More comfortable brake levers
Brake pads
Seat (Brooks B17)
I am estimating those changes to be about $400
In addition, I could do a full update which would include everything above and...
Crank/BB
Bar End Shifters
Cassette
Rear D
Front D
Chain
For Diore XT it would be $522 and SLX $416 new at Nashbar. I would then need a new pair of 36 hole wheels and probably get a SON in front at that point or maybe add it later. $600 for wheels outside of SON? So, add a complete update I am looking at about $1400-1500. Does that sound about right? Then I have a vintage rig running a nice setup. But, is that really better then a BLT with new SLX for $2000 minus the sale of this bike?
Love the input...
GG
About the bike: It has all original equipment except for the seat, tires (replace with Specialized Armadillos), tape (replaced with Brooks leather) and fenders (replaced with Honjo). Except for the saddle, the replacement parts have essentially 15 miles on them. Here are lots photos: Bike: Specialized Expedition - a set on Flickr
It's your bike. Make it so it fits you best. Just for the sake of originality be gentle with the parts you remove and if you send the bike to another home make sure the take-off parts go with it..
07-08-11, 10:19 AM
#15
Senior Member
If you want a BLT you better get one right now, as BG has discontinued them and is selling off the last frames. Only sizes left are 39, 52 and 56. See https://brucegordoncycles.bigcartel.c...ouring-bicycle
07-08-11, 11:19 AM
#16
Senior Member
Are you planning to use the bike for loaded touring? If you are, a modern frame's better stiffness will give you tangible benefits. If you are only keeping the bike as an around the town ride, you should upgrade and keep it. That is a beautiful bicycle.
07-08-11, 11:39 AM
#17
Senior Member
Thats a real nice looking bike right now!
But if you really want something else, then sell it and get what you want!
But if you really want something else, then sell it and get what you want!
07-08-11, 12:25 PM
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Yeah, I need to decide quickly if I should sell this and pick up the BLT. I spoke with Bruce Gordon and he seems to think that the BLT is a much better frame with 20 years of better knowledge. Primarily, he spoke about the tubing being much better on the BLT. I know he needs to sell bikes but he is also very knowledgeable of this kind of stuff.
My primary use will be a commuter and light touring very secondary.I have a Salsa Fargo I would take on loaded touring. So rides to work with very few overnights planned..
GG
My primary use will be a commuter and light touring very secondary.I have a Salsa Fargo I would take on loaded touring. So rides to work with very few overnights planned..
GG
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07-08-11, 03:04 PM
#19
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I was in a somewhat similar situation with a '88 Trek touring bike and decided to keep the bike (that was years ago though, and now I am ready to move on).
I'd suggest just doing the bare minimum. I'm sure the rear is spaced 126mm and replacing the wheel will be a little more involved than just mounting a new one. If the existing wheels are 27", you may also have issues with getting the canti's properly adjusted with 700c rims (I did on my Trek).
I ended up replacing the 6spd indexed downtube shifters with 7spd brifters and a new freewheel, as well as replacing the brake pads.
Check out the cog spacing page on Sheldon Brown's site to figure out compatibility,
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html
but you might be able to use a set of Shimano bar-ends (I've got two pair of 7spd bar-ends, and could make you a great deal on a pair, though am sure there are others out there as well) with your existing (Suntour?) freewheel, though I'm sure you'd need to change to a Shimano derailleur as well.
I'd suggest just doing the bare minimum. I'm sure the rear is spaced 126mm and replacing the wheel will be a little more involved than just mounting a new one. If the existing wheels are 27", you may also have issues with getting the canti's properly adjusted with 700c rims (I did on my Trek).
I ended up replacing the 6spd indexed downtube shifters with 7spd brifters and a new freewheel, as well as replacing the brake pads.
Check out the cog spacing page on Sheldon Brown's site to figure out compatibility,
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html
but you might be able to use a set of Shimano bar-ends (I've got two pair of 7spd bar-ends, and could make you a great deal on a pair, though am sure there are others out there as well) with your existing (Suntour?) freewheel, though I'm sure you'd need to change to a Shimano derailleur as well.
07-08-11, 05:35 PM
#20
Senior Member
I have an 85 Expedition, too. I picked it up this spring so I've only had it a few months but I've put a couple hundred miles on it commuting (with two small panniers) and have done one century on it. Based on that, I second your thoughts about selling it to help pay for what you want. I've found mine to be a bit on the heavy side for commuting and weekend rides. I imagine it would perform well fully loaded (its intended purpose) but it's over-kill as a commuter for me.
07-08-11, 09:04 PM
#21
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Iowegian, I don't have enough posts (need 50) to respond to your PM. You can email me at my username @ gmail.com
I have an 85 Expedition, too. I picked it up this spring so I've only had it a few months but I've put a couple hundred miles on it commuting (with two small panniers) and have done one century on it. Based on that, I second your thoughts about selling it to help pay for what you want. I've found mine to be a bit on the heavy side for commuting and weekend rides. I imagine it would perform well fully loaded (its intended purpose) but it's over-kill as a commuter for me.
07-12-11, 03:37 PM
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Youd be stupid to change that (other than maybe barend shifters) given the condition of the bike. Sell it for top price, its all original...
I have an 84 exped, and the bike is great for touring. Anyone who thinks much has changed in terms of the frames in the last 25 years doesnt really understand how "right" this bike was back in the day. The frame holds up against any modern touring-specific bike in terms of stiffness and performance for touring. 6mm brazeons for racks are better than the m5 used on most bikes...
my 2c
I have an 84 exped, and the bike is great for touring. Anyone who thinks much has changed in terms of the frames in the last 25 years doesnt really understand how "right" this bike was back in the day. The frame holds up against any modern touring-specific bike in terms of stiffness and performance for touring. 6mm brazeons for racks are better than the m5 used on most bikes...
my 2c
07-12-11, 10:05 PM
#24
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Another "WOW!!!!" I have an 84 Expedition, same size as yours, but not nearly as minty. That bike is in great shape.
I invoke the N+1 rule. Keep the bike, AND buy a BLT.
I invoke the N+1 rule. Keep the bike, AND buy a BLT.