big_rider

I started a thread a few weeks ago on the Gunnar Grand Tour as it is a non-custom touring frame available in 64-66-68cm. Since then I have also checked out the Co-Motion Americano. It is only available in stock sizes up to 62cm, and I think custom sizes are $300 extra which pushes just the frame and fork over $2000 and it has the weird 145mm rear axle. Rodriguez has some decent hand-made touring bikes also like the Adventure at $1,200 for frame and fork. It is available in a large number of sizes (although they don't actually list sizes in centimeters, it is a proprietary sizing system) and if they don't stock a size that will work, they are $200 more for custom sizing.
The Gunnar is $1,300 for frame and fork. I have always held Waterford (Gunnar) in high regard, but I have been a little more skeptical recently after doing some internet searches and hearing about weak paint and seat post slippage from many owners.

What do you all think? Which one would you buy?

aroundoz

Curious how tall you are and if you need a larger frame more for increased TT length or you like a traditional looking bike with a horizontal TT. I probably take a 64cm frame if I wanted a horizontal TT but I have been successful in getting 62cm frames to work for me with increased standover which I like anyway.

Here are a few more options that won't break the bank as much:
https://www.curtlo.com/index.html
Doug is a really nice guy, makes a great frame for a lot less than other builders, but you might have to wait a while for it.

https://www.thorncycles.co.uk/clubtour.html
The 620s has a long HT and long steerer and the kind of fork the Gunnar dreams about. Tons of eyelets which are hour glass shaped (there must be a name for them) which have a lot of purchase and threads. It might be worth contacting SJS to see if they think the frame will work for you but again if you want a horizontal TT, this wouldn't be an option.

https://www.rivbike.com/products/show...amebike/50-700
This bike comes in a 64cm.

You couldn't go wrong with Rod or Co-motion but I would have a hard time spending that much money on a bike that came with a unicrown fork.

big_rider

I am 6'3" tall. It is not so much that I need a longer top tube, it is just that I have a hard time getting my handlebars even close to the same height as my saddle. On threadless headsets I have had to use the dumb looking steer tube extender thingies, and on threaded, I have to get a really tall quill stem. My inseam/pubic bone height is rather large. In order to make a smaller frame like a 62cm work, I have to leave the steer tube much longer than is recommended with a huge stack height, and would probably still have to get a high angle stem to get the bars high enough. I am not into having my bars below the saddle for heavy touring and thousands of miles.

martianone

Check out the geometry of Soma's ES, they list a 64 and 66 cm frame.

Cyclesafe

My 62 cm Americano was customized with a longer head tube at no extra charge. The custom charge, as with any "list price", is negotiable.

The 145mm dropouts are not weird. They allow a dishless rear wheel even with a disc rotor. There's plenty of hub availability as nearly every manufacturer sells tandem hubs. Paint is weak on Co-Motion bikes, Waterfords, and probably Rodriquez too because they use automotive acrylic which is very pretty, but not very durable. I repainted mine with an industrial flat black stealth finish comprised of an epoxy base coat and a polyurethane top coat. Almost bullet proof.

I saw a rather hefty guy (250+) bend his Waterford chainstay while mashing up a hill. Good thing he broke down at Bell II on the Cassiar Highway where his chainstay was bent back into place with an acetylene torch at the helicopter repair facility there. A very lucky outcome for him. It was likely to have gone the other way. But a dead bike is a dead bike, I guess.

For heavy touring, the Americano or the Pangea (for different reasons) are tough to beat. If you're willing to wait, you might find a retailer (or Co-Motion themselves) to waive the customization fee. Give them a reason....

Barrettscv 

Is this for heavy loaded touring? How much do you weight?

big_rider

Cyclesafe: I would like to see a picture of your bike if I could. How much longer is the head tube? Did you have them only do this one modification so you could fit on a frame that would otherwise be too small or uncomfortable per the issues I was bringing up above? And, I see the benefits to a 145mm hub, it just seems unnecessary, but if I had a bike with 145mm dropouts, I don't think I would mind either way.

Edit: I weight 200-210 pounds

fietsbob

Talk to Bruce Gordon, a tall guy himself , is one to talk to, advantage is using His Racks
to haul your touring stuff, and having their mounting pre planned before the bike is painted.
not sure about big sizes in Taiwan frames he had made to his spec, but,
The Current BLT frame and fork are competitively priced to go up against the Surly LHT.
but Surlys racks are inefficiently heavier. and not as well mounted.

seeker333

That weird 145mm spacing is so you can utilize a tandem hub rear wheel.

One of the advantages to this spacing is it allows one to build a wheel with reduced dish.

In the case of the DT540, this turns out to be a zero-dish aka dishless wheel, which is why CoMo specs them on their complete bikes.

This is one of the more thoughtful aspects of the relatively expensive CoMo frame.

The DT540 is the only dishless (equal flange spacing) 145mm OLD freehub that I know of. So, if you choose the CoMo frame, get the 145 spacing, and 2 DT540s (so you'll have a spare when they stop making them).

https://www.dtswiss.com/getdoc/5604d5...Datasheet.aspx

Only you can decide if this expertise/design feature justifies the additional cost of a CoMo frame.

BTW the seat post slippage on Gunnars is about a 5-6 year old issue, I think they fixed it years ago.

Cyclesafe

Well, you're not as heavy as many who post here.

My bike.

I think the head tube was made a couple of centimeters longer than usual. Now I don't know if I needed that, or if Co-Mo had incentivized its dealers to unload a frame they had messed up. I do know that the bike fits me very well.

You're right about the whole single person tandem concept. Its overkill. What ends up breaking is something that rarely breaks for others because something else had broken (or wore out) for them first. OTOH, that Waterford's chainstay on the Cassiar bent rather too readily, to my way of thinking. If you're looking at Co-Motions take a look at the lighter Norwester. They market it for "light" touring only because they need to somehow differentiate it from the Americano.

big_rider

Nice bike! Looks great all loaded up. I will consider the Co-Motion, but they are a little out of my budget for now.

All of this makes me wish I was just a bit smaller so I could (comfortably) ride a LHT. I know, I am lame.

wahoonc

No you aren't lame. We are ten percenters as in we are 10% of cycling market. We don't fit the 90% size mold.

I am 6'-2", 215# with long arms and legs, getting any bike to fit is a challenge. I have an old Dawes Galaxy 25" frame and a similar sized Motobecane Nomade that I refuse to get rid of because they fit. I seldom buy new bikes because the off the shelf stuff stops at L which is usually around 56-58cm. My wife has the opposite problem, she is barely 5' and has short legs. Her frame size is around 40cm

Aaron

Hibonite

I would second the Rivendell Sam Hillborne for an afforadable large stock frame. Because of the up-sloping top tube and long head tube, the 60 cm fits like a 65 cm with a regular horizontal top tube. An as the previous poster noted, they have a 64 cm stock frame, which will fit like a 69 cm or so.

big_rider

I really do like some of the Rivendell bikes. I had always wanted an Atlantis, but Riv stopped making them in my size, which made me really unhappy. The Atlantis is out of my price range, but I always thought it was prrobably the nicest touring bike out there. The Sam Hillborne is a good alternative though. I was actually out in San Fran last year and stopped by Riv and they sized my up and put me on a Hillborne. After riding my bike that was much too small, it felt amazing. Like sitting in a Lazy Boy. I just wish I could get one without the twin top tubes, it makes the bike look so weird. I am already a big guy, and I think the twin top tube make it look like I am riding a clown bike. Also, Riv's website makes it seem like the Hillborne is really built for loaded touring. They make it sound like it is built more for light touring and randonne style riding.

Also, it is strange to me the Riv used to make the Redwood ( a bike built for us bigger guys) but they didn't have twin top tubes. I don't know where this whole twin top tube thing came from. Maybe my aesthetics are petty, but in that case, is the Hillborne really a good loaded touring bike?

escii_35

Naw, this is what I thought when I saw a double top tube version on the road.

"Someone bought an on/off road custom touring bike for a fat man." Guessing rolling weight with 4 bags was 325+. The guy was not all that slow on the flats. However, the first whiff of a hill ...

pdlamb

I'll ride a 62-63 cm frame, but when I talked to BG a few years back, he told me I'd have to get the Rock-n-Road, now $1,600 for frame and fork, because the BLT, $750, was too small to fit me. (Otherwise, I'd have a Bruce Gordon bike now!)

irwin7638

[IMG]u[/IMG]I just took delivery of a Hunqapillar and am thrilled with it. It's definitely built for loaded touring with bigger riders an a that is why I bought it. I have short legs so mine came without the diagonal tube, but I wouldn't hesitate over that. Although I don't think it matters, mine was assembled at waterford. There are several posts about it on my blog.

Marc

nancy sv

Wow! I appreciate this thread! My son is now just barely 13 years old, over 6 feet tall, and has outgrown his touring bike - we'll be looking for another bike for him soon. I wasn't sure what the options were going to be.

big_rider

Marc,
I would love to see a picture of it all assembled. What size is it, and how big are you what is your PBH?

big_rider

Ok, I am getting this boiled down a little. At least I know what bikes will fit me, and which ones I am interested in. Here is the list:

Gunnar Grand Tour: $1,300 with frame and fork, however if I only bought the frame and used a LHT fork, the price would come down to $1,075. 38mm tire clearance, Made in the USA by Waterford. Another option is to buy a lugged Waterford fork, which would probably add another $100 to the price. I don't like the stock Grand Tour Fork.

Rivendell Sam Hillborne: $1,000 for frame fork and headset. This bike is really growing on me, it is actually the cheapest option on the list for a fully lugged steel frame. 40mm tire clearance Made in Taiwan but designed by Grant Peterson.

Rivendell Hunqapillar: $1,500 for frame fork and headset. This bike would be able to handle anything. It has really stout heat treated tubing it is fully lugged steel and has clearance for tires up to 56mm! Huge! It might be a little too overkill though. Made in Taiwan but designed by Grant Peterson.

Rodriguez Adventure:$1,200 I have never seen a Rodriguez in real life, so I am not sure about this bike. It seems like a good company though... Anyone have one? This bike frame is completely made in the USA and is available in an astounding 18 sizes. Custom sizing is available for only $200 extra. The tire clearances are not listed on the website so I really don't know much else about this bike.


I would appreciate any help, reviews or recommendations on these bikes. I am almost 100% sure that I will be buying one of theses listed above

irwin7638

Sorry,
I've been out of town the last couple of days. My pbh is 85cm (barely), I am only 6' tall and my best lean weight is 215#. You can find the whole story on my blog, starting with "the elves of rivendell" and several followups. I'm on my mobile now and photos are tough.

Marc

irwin7638

As I mentioned in earlier posts I am thrilled with the Hung. You can find a lot of info on my blog, but in the end this bike ain't for skinny, no-shouldered, spandex hamsters. It's built to be loaded and ridden hard with enough in reserve to go off-road.
I love my Hunqapillar!

Marc

aroundoz

I would have to vote for the Hunqapillar especially if it were going to be my only bike. It expands your options for touring on gravel roads and paths and I bet it still moves pretty well with lower volume tires. When your not touring, throw some 2.25s on it and hit the trails. I have been lusting after one for a while and it will definititely be my next bike purchase. The only negative might be you couldn't run as small of tire as with other bikes you listed due to a lower BB height.

BengeBoy 

Don't give up on Rodriguez -- just send them an email. I see plenty of very tall riders around Seattle on *very* large Rodriguez bikes. I'll bet they have a stock size that will fit you.

Also, the Co-Motion Americano (and Pangea) are fine bikes, slightly more expensive than the Rodriguez or Gunnar. You can send an email (or call) directly to Co-Motion to get questions answered; nice people to deal with.

racerjim

Bump: OP, what did you end up doing? I'm going down this road right now, have it down to the Gunnar GT or the Sam. Would love to hear what you did and why, and how it worked out!