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  1. #1
    Senior Member mello velo's Avatar
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    Value of used Cannondale mid 80's T800 vs. new bikes

    I'm cross posting this here, since it is a touring bike. Also posted in Classic-what's it worth....


    Any thoughts on this Cannondale touring T800 mid 80's bike via ebay? This looks like a good deal. I rode a bicycle very similar in size. The aluminum may be stiffer than steel bikes:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/CANNONDALE-T...#ht_500wt_1413

    How much revamping would I need to do? Regrease bearings?
    I can't guarantee the size would fit exactly, but have ridden a bike that was slightly larger, and it was fine.

    I'm looking for a light touring bike, for exercise, and short tours like 100 miles to local state parks, with light camping gear. But 90 percent of the time, used for exercise and commuting.

    I'm comparing this to new bikes:
    Bianchi Volpe - $1100
    Surly Cross Check- $1150
    Raleigh Clubman $1190

    and a used 83' Trek 620 which I posted earlier. $330

    Thanks for comments.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Doug64's Avatar
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    Buying a used bike, especially without actually seeing or riding it could carry some risks. Depending on the final bid, the cost with shipping could be in the neighborhood of $550. (Bikes Direct sell a couple of decent touring bikes right in this price range) Also, depending on your mechanical ability the cost of going completely through the bike could be costly. All the bearings should be re-greased before a tour. This would include: both hubs, headset, bottom bracket and pedals. I'm not sure if this bike has a freewheel or a free hub, but the grease in either one can congeal to a pretty solid substance in that amount of time. Also do you have the specialized tools: crank puller, freewheel puller, chain tool, cone wrenches, bottom bracket tool, etc.? Does the seat post still move inside the seat tube or are they rusted together? ? If you can do this yourself and have the tools, it is not a big deal. If you have to take it to a shop, it will add substantially to the cost.

    If it has been "hanging in the garage for 25 years, the tires will probably need replacing. It has 27" wheels and a 6 speed cluster. While not a deal killer, it does reduce the options for tires and gearing changes if needed. Brake pads also tend to change "character" when they are old. Same with the original saddle. The point is that you may have to invest another $200+ to get it up to touring condition, and when you are finished you still have an old bike.

    I just went through a bike that was hanging in a warm dry environment for about the same amount of time. I have all the tools and know my way around bikes. I still had to put in a lot of time to get it to a ridable condition. I would rather buy a used bike that someone rides and maintains on a regular basis, than one that has been sitting for a very long time.

    On the plus side it has all the racks, which is a savings over the other bikes you are considering. Also, this type of bike has been used on countless tours for thousands of miles.
    Last edited by Doug64; 09-21-11 at 11:12 PM.

  3. #3
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    $.02 bikes like that are great but I'd rather do what the seller is doing, finding the bike cheap at a yard sale or Craigslist then keeping it. Like Doug said that $400 bike becomes $600 in no time with shipping and new tires.
    If you have a $600 budget see what you can get for $600.

  4. #4
    __________ seeker333's Avatar
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    The Cdale has a 6x3 drivetrain, 126mm rear spacing, rigid Al frame. You'll have to stick with 6s freewheel hub - can't upgrade to 7-8-9-10s freehub. You can still buy parts but the freewheel fell out of favor 25 years ago. Also 27" wheels - tires are available but there's about 100x more choices in the 700c size.

    You could get Cdale roadworthy with new tubes, tires, brake pads, cables and housing, in addition to Dougs comments about hubs, freewheel and BB. Figure $100 for parts and $150 labor at your LBS for a major tuneup. You probably dont have the tools, they can cost more than paying the LBS for the work. Spokes on these old wheels can get so oxidized that they seize in the nipples, then you can't true wheels. In this event, cheapest thing to do is replace - another $150. So thats 400+125+100+150+150= 925.

    Why dont you just buy a new bike?

    http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...an_turismo.htm

    You probably should determine what size bike fits you before you get much further into this process.
    Last edited by seeker333; 09-21-11 at 11:48 PM.

  5. #5
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    mello velo, Because of all of the extras and because these older Cannondale T bikes are becoming more popular recently, the price is probably okay, but closing in on too much unless you really want it, IMHO. The bike can't be considered a 'loaded tourer' by today's standards, but would handle what you're considering easily.

    I suggest you completely overhaul the bike simply because it'd be a 'new to you' item. I wouldn't switch anything until I'd ridden the bike for awhile. 27" tires are still readily available and 3X6 drivetrains have toured for decades.

    As a disclaimer, I really like Cannondales so my advice is slightly jaded.

    Brad

  6. #6
    Senior Member bud16415's Avatar
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    I bought the Cannondale shown below this spring off CL. It has all the updates shown and came with the original wheels and tires in perfect condition. In my case I wasn’t looking for another bike but the deal was too good to pass up and after I determined the guy that was selling it was for real and the bike wasn’t hot I feel I got the deal of a lifetime getting it for $75. I knew I could easily flip it but after riding it a while and the frame size was perfect it found its place in the lineup.



    I also have a bikes direct touring bike and some above have mentioned them. I have the Windsor Tourist model and I'm happy with it. Having redone to one extent or another at least a dozen 60's thru 80's road bikes I tend to agree with all the wisdom above. If you can get the old school bikes for next to nothing they can be a lot of fun putting a couple hundred bucks into bringing them back to life and enjoying them like a classic car buff would enjoy a vintage car, only for a lot less money. The bike you are looking at isn't a bad looking bike and with the racks and fenders those are pluses. I personally wouldn’t like going back to down tube shifters. It does have a triple up front but as someone posted having say 9 in the back compared to 6 is a big difference if touring. Even on my Windsor I changed the granny up front smaller and the cassette in the back to use those extra 3 sprockets for low gears, and that was on a bike supposedly designed for touring. All that kind of tweaking would be harder to do on a older bike.

    It's a hard call as that is a beautiful looking bike. The one tipping point might be the frame size for you. Riding a larger frame and spending 5 or 6 hours on a larger frame can be two different things. What size have you been fitted at or what would you consider perfect for you?
    What's not in your legs needs to be in your gears.

  7. #7
    Senior Member mello velo's Avatar
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    fitting

    Quote Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
    [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]
    It's a hard call as that is a beautiful looking bike. The one tipping point might be the frame size for you. Riding a larger frame and spending 5 or 6 hours on a larger frame can be two different things. What size have you been fitted at or what would you consider perfect for you?


    Great comments all. Thanks for bringing some reality to this option. I don't have any bike related tools, and my mechanical knowledge and the time I'm willing to invest is limited. I'm focused on launching a landscape painting career, so cannot get too far distracted with fixing bikes. I'm convinced then to stick with new.
    Dialing in my exact size seems to be a little bit of a challenge- here is my experience so far:
    The used Trek I rode was comfortable, a 25.5" frame with a 35" standover height, not sure top tube length. I only rode it briefly though. I have an old Diamondback hybrid right now, that is too small for sure, as I have the seat post hanging out about 18 inches.....
    I rode a 57cm Raleigh Sojourn, which felt much too small for me, to reach the drops I was hunched over big time. Rode a 58cm Surly Cross Check, again felt too small. Tried a 62cm Trek road bike, felt fine. I punched in the numbers on fit calculators, said I needed a +/_ 61cm. One of the LBS offered to do a custom fit using a 61cm bike, and figure out my exact measurements needed, but they would want me to buy through them or pay a fee of $65. They are on the other side of town from me
    The other bike shops have just sort of looked me up and down and said- you're definitely going to need an XL in whatever you get. One LBS took inseam/standover and my arm length, then determined I need a 59...... I don't think they are right, based on my above experience with Surly and Raleigh. I'm 6'-3" with 36" standover, 24 inch arm length from center of shoulder to grip. I've got big size 14 feet FWIW, so long chainstay would be good for heel strike issues with panniers.
    From the reviews I've read, I think I would like the fit of the Bianchi Volpe, most reviews say it has a more upright position, which I think I would like because I've had back issues in the past, and for commuting I want to be facing more forward. I'm drawn to the Raleigh Clubman mainly cuz' it's a pretty bike.....

    More shall be revealed.

    Thanks again for your responses.
    Last edited by mello velo; 09-22-11 at 07:23 AM. Reason: added text

  8. #8
    Senior Member bud16415's Avatar
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    I'm far from a bike fitter and my only experience is in fitting myself and offering friendly advice to family members and friends. I'm from the school of DIY be it bike fitting or my golf swing. I'm not saying that is smart just that's how I work.

    From what you say the Cannondale does seem to be about the right size for you. What I have found if you want the advantages of Drop bars and all the hand positions but don’t want real low drops then staying on the high side of the frames for you will help that. My way of thinking is with more upright drop bars the bigger frame brings the stem up a little, the top tube might be longer but if you want to raise the bars with an angled stem that will both raise the bars and bring them back to you. In your case the size 14's will benefit also with the larger frame "maybe" giving you a little more heal room. Most of the time you can also shift the racks back a few inches or select something that has a angle built in it at the bottom to add clearance. On my Windsor I have bin type panniers that I have moved back and they have a tapered bottom. I could slide them back about 3 more inches.



    You seem to really want a bike to serve two uses and when I bought the Windsor the plan was to use it just for loaded touring. What I have found is it’s the bike I grab for just about every use. I'm not into racing or even group riding and my opinion is the little extra weight when unloaded is more than offset with the comfort and the gearing on the touring bike. The fenders are great all the time and being able to strap cargo on or throw things in the basket for commuting is perfect. Riding is less twitchy etc. Seeing as how you want to do some touring IMO I like a touring bike used as a commuter rather than the other way around. I'm sure others might see it the other way around.
    What's not in your legs needs to be in your gears.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mello velo View Post

    I'm drawn to the Raleigh Clubman mainly cuz' it's a pretty bike.....
    .
    It is but I'd be inclined to get the Cross-Check for the greater range of tire sizes, ability to take larger cassette and wider gear range. The rear derailleur on the Clubman doesn't look like it could take a big cassette.
    If you like more upright riding position I'd suggest the bike with the longer wheelbase. The Cross-check appears to come with longer steerer. I've settled on carrying panniers on a Cross-Check on the front wheel after a couple years of riding with them on the back occasionally. It carries the weight better up front.
    With your height and preference for upright riding I think putting panniers on the rear wheel will make for funny handling.

  10. #10
    Senior Member mello velo's Avatar
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    I like your Windsor Bud. It looks very versatile, tough.
    Lee, aren't the Volpe and Cross Check about same in ability to take different tire sizes? The CC off the shelf has double crank, Volpe has the triple, seems like a plus for Volpe. Price is about same. Specs look similar. Not sure how they differ really. Here's link to Volpe:
    http://www.bianchiusa.com/archives/2...n-fondo/volpe/
    CrossCheck:
    http://surlybikes.com/bikes/cross_check

  11. #11
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    they do look similar, haven't ridden a Volpe, I was comparing to the Raleigh(which I haven't ridden either)
    btw, the CC has a long horizontal dropout so it's effective chainstay length and wheelbase can be about 3/4" longer than the stats.

  12. #12
    Senior Member bud16415's Avatar
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    Mello

    Here is a link to a gear calculator page I found very valuable in both making choices before buying a bike and mostly making choices after the purchase to try and correct what I have.

    http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.sherman/index-shift.html

    Where you ride and the type of riding you plan on doing and your abilities all will enter into gear selection. Wishing to ride more upright, wind, hills, weight, and condition all factor into gear selection. Buying a new bike allows you to try and get the selection right. There is a lot more to it than thinking 27 different gear selections that should cover everything. At least that’s what I used to think. when you put the numbers into the program and start thinking about what speed and cadence you will likely use you will start seeing how the ranges overlap etc.

    The two bikes you listed might look to be fairly close spec wise but there might be more of a difference gear wise. Just something to look at also, and maybe they allow changes from the normal offerings.

    I just put the numbers in and both bikes have about the same low gear and the CC has a higher top gear. For me the low gear of each is about 30 gear inches and my personal preference for any kind of touring is around 20 if you have some hills and or wind combinations. The Volpe has a top gear inch of 106 and the CC 116. Normally about 100 is a good max number.
    Last edited by bud16415; 09-22-11 at 12:58 PM.
    What's not in your legs needs to be in your gears.

  13. #13
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    mello velo, Of the new bikes you listed I'd opt for the Volpe (my daughter has one). That said, whichever bike 'calls to you' is the one you're most likely to ride and be happy with... any bike can be modified if need be.

    Brad

  14. #14
    Senior Member Doug64's Avatar
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    mello vello, Hi again-- I have a Volpe and it is a pretty nice bike. I have done several long tours on it, and it performed well. I just went out and measured the chainstay length, and it was 1.5" shorter than my touring bike (LHT)--both 58cm frames. The point is that with size 14 feet, the shorter chainstays might be an issue for you. I also measured my road bike and the chainstays were the same as the Volpe, about 16.5" where I measured them-- center of crank to center of rear dropout. The Surly was right at 18". I have size 10.5 feet, and heel clearance was close, but adequate with Ortlieb Classic Rollers on the Volpe. I may have been able to move the panniers back if needed. Gearing is also easy to change on the Volpe if you want to do that at a later time. Hopefully, the chainstays are proportionately longer on the bigger frame. Good luck in your quest.

  15. #15
    Senior Member mello velo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug64 View Post
    mello vello, Hi again-- I have a Volpe and it is a pretty nice bike. I have done several long tours on it, and it performed well. I just went out and measured the chainstay length, and it was 1.5" shorter than my touring bike (LHT)--both 58cm frames. The point is that with size 14 feet, the shorter chainstays might be an issue for you. I also measured my road bike and the chainstays were the same as the Volpe, about 16.5" where I measured them-- center of crank to center of rear dropout. The Surly was right at 18". I have size 10.5 feet, and heel clearance was close, but adequate with Ortlieb Classic Rollers on the Volpe. I may have been able to move the panniers back if needed. Gearing is also easy to change on the Volpe if you want to do that at a later time. Hopefully, the chainstays are proportionately longer on the bigger frame. Good luck in your quest.
    Doug,
    Thanks for taking the time to take a measurement..... when I asked the LBS about the heel strike issue, he recommended getting a longer rack and panniers with a 45 degree bottom edge.
    What do you think of the Raleigh Clubman? I haven't found many comments. It's more of the sport touring category, steel frame, matching fenders, not sure on weight. It has an even shorter chainstay than the Volpe, but is the best looking bike in my opinion. Similar drivetrain spec. The tire size probably can't go as large as the Cross Check or Volpe.

  16. #16
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    mello velo, There's nothing wrong with the Clubman for a light tourer's role, just don't mount a set gigantic panniers.

    Brad

  17. #17
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    The taller you get the harder it is to find something off the shelf which fits. Luckily the measurements you gave not in the dreaded "custom range." 61cm to 63(25in) should be your happy place. I tell people to size up a smidge for their long distance bikes.

    As for the cannondale if it was 7sp 135 spaced I'd say toss out a bid. It's fully equiped. One warning those old c-dales were STFF. I like the ride of my T-series 2008 over the 1993 though no DT mount still ticks me off. I don't care for barcons.

    Price performance those surlys give a good punch. The only knock on them is the rack braze-ons.

  18. #18
    Senior Member dwmckee's Avatar
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    I am an original owner of a 1986 st400 and still riding it. I squeezed in a 7 speed about 20 years ago with no problem. I also own modern bikes but still love and ride the cdale at least 1000 miles a year. Have upgraded many parts but still have the original Miche hubs and they still out roll most cartridge hubs. Went to index shift maybe 5 years ago. Frame is an excellent comfort and rigidity combination. 7 speed never needs adjusting. Still see these frames sell for $200 plus on eBay. I own a $2000 touring bike but still love and appreciate the cdale too. A very comfortable and very fast tourer.

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