Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-24-11, 04:58 AM   #1
zeppinger
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
zeppinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Seoul, South Korea
Bikes: Giant FCR3, Surly LHT
Posts: 1,985
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Surly is not a big fan of kickstands

I used a kickstand on my first tour after getting advice on this forum that it was crazy to ride without one. During the tour, Vancouver to TJ along the PCH, the bike fell over a number of times. The kickstand was a greenfield but if the ground was not perfectly flat the bike would just roll and fall over. One time when this happened, it bent the hell out of my brand new Jannd Extreme front rack when it came into sharp contact with the bikes down tube. I am glad that it was a rack that bent and not the bike frame but still a bummer. After that happened I took the kickstand off the bike at the next town, saved myself nearly two pounds, and happily layer my bike down on the ground where I knew that nothing could happen to it, for the rest of the trip. Actually I rarely had to lay it down, because I could almost always find something to lean it against that was more secure than my kickstand.

Apparently, Surly agrees with me. Check out their article on mounting a kickstand to the LHT: http://surlybikes.com/info_hole/spew..._haul_truckers
zeppinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 05:48 AM   #2
TurbineBlade
Kid A
 
TurbineBlade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Alexandria, VA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,778
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yep -- kickstands are not worth the hassle IMO. I mounted one to my LHT once but removed it before the bike even left the house. I couldn't get enough holding strength to satisfy me without fear of over tightening mangling my chain stays.

I wouldn't mind those parking brake mountain levers though From Harris cyclery.........
TurbineBlade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 06:03 AM   #3
Bekologist
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
ya, surly should put a kickstand plate on the LHT platform. its a real no-brainer.

can't quite figure out the curmudgeon factor on that one.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 06:20 AM   #4
z90
Senior Member
 
z90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Path to Fredvana
Bikes: Long Haul Trucker 2010 , Felt Z90 2008, Rans Rocket 2001, Specialized Hardrock 1989
Posts: 910
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have an LHT, and this is my only complaint about the bike; it's difficult to mount a kickstand. I also don't get why they have such animosity towards kickstands. At least get rid of the stupid spoke holder, so a rear triangle type kickstand can be mounted easily. It's not like they set out to build a light-weight bike, so why not put a kickstand plate on it? Utility cyclists, commuters, and tourists that like kickstands would rejoice.
z90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 06:27 AM   #5
antokelly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,052
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
if i'm not mistaken Thorn don't like kickstands either.
antokelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 06:40 AM   #6
FunkyStickman
On a Mission from God
 
FunkyStickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Thibodaux, LA
Bikes: '10 Surly LHT, Rat-rod Klunker, '82 Peugeot PH12 (WIP)
Posts: 2,009
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
This explains a lot. Surly is one of those companies that is genius, but drives you nuts over little things. They make killer bikes, though.
FunkyStickman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 07:24 AM   #7
dcrowell
Fat Guy Rolling
 
dcrowell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Louisville Kentucky
Bikes: Bacchetta Agio, 80s Raleigh Record single-speed, Surly Big Dummy
Posts: 2,439
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have an LHT and put a rear-triangle kickstand on it. I found one that sort-of worked around the spoke holder.

I hated the kickstand. I don't think kickstands work with loaded touring bikes, but for commuting and such, having a kickstand plate would be nice.

OTOH, I've gotten so used to not having a kickstand that I don't have one my single-speed either, which I now commute on most often, and it has a kickstand plate.

Leaning the bike or laying it down works okay for me.
dcrowell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 07:28 AM   #8
chasm54
Banned.
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Uncertain
Bikes:
Posts: 8,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think they're right. Kickstands are so rarely useful as to make the compromise not worthwhile.
chasm54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 07:39 AM   #9
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 9,539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
ya, surly should put a kickstand plate on the LHT platform. its a real no-brainer.

can't quite figure out the curmudgeon factor on that one.
Actually read it. They explain why they don't do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z90 View Post
I have an LHT, and this is my only complaint about the bike; it's difficult to mount a kickstand. I also don't get why they have such animosity towards kickstands.
They don't really have any more "animosity" than any other manufacturer that doesn't add a kickstand plate. They are just being clear about the risks and compromises kickstands entail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z90 View Post
At least get rid of the stupid spoke holder, so a rear triangle type kickstand can be mounted easily.
That isn't the only problem (according to the article).

It's not like they set out to build a light-weight bike, so why not put a kickstand plate on it? Utility cyclists, commuters, and tourists that like kickstands would rejoice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z90 View Post
It's not like they set out to build a light-weight bike, so why not put a kickstand plate on it?
Try reading the article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyStickman View Post
This explains a lot. Surly is one of those companies that is genius, but drives you nuts over little things. They make killer bikes, though.
If you like their frames and trust their design of them, why do you think they are wrong about the reasons they don't favor kickstands?

Last edited by njkayaker; 09-24-11 at 07:50 AM.
njkayaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 07:39 AM   #10
ezdoesit
Senior Member
 
ezdoesit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New Jersey
Bikes: Fuji Touring 2008
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I only use a www.clickstand.com -
ezdoesit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 08:37 AM   #11
Gus Riley
HomeBrew Master!
 
Gus Riley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: West Central Illinois
Bikes: Aegis Aro Svelte, Surly LHT, Cannondal R3000 tandem, Santana Triplet.
Posts: 2,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezdoesit View Post
I only use a www.clickstand.com -
+1 Clickstand is not as efficient to use, and with a "Bigfoot" end piece adapter it works with less fear of the bike falling over. They are less weight than a regular kickstand. They are also quite the conversation piece as I found out while riding self-contained during RAGBRAI this year.

The small company is also great to work with...My bike did fall over because it sank into some soft ground (I did not have a bigfoot adapter installed at the time) ....the weight of the bike snapped my clickstand in half...OOPS. So looking to purchase replacement parts, I called Clickstand. He had my original information and sent a replacement segment, and a bigfoot adapter....FREE of CHARGE! A plug for CLICKSTAND.

I recommend them. Is a kickstand/clickstand needed to tour? IMHO, absolutely not, but most times I really appreciate having one.

Last edited by Gus Riley; 09-24-11 at 08:41 AM.
Gus Riley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 08:42 AM   #12
staehpj1 
Senior Member
 
staehpj1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Bikes:
Posts: 8,865
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Different strokes, but I prefer to go sans stand and would rather not have a plate added. There is usually something to lean the bike against and when there isn't I don't mind laying it down. Also my observation of other riders seems to indicate that bikes on stands blow over far more often than those leaned against something. I have a few friends who say they have never had that problem. Funny thing is that I have seen all of their bikes blow over at least once.
staehpj1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 08:52 AM   #13
FrenchFit 
The Left Coast, USA
 
FrenchFit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 3,054
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
"We recommend the use of two leg kickstands such as the Pletscher."


Which is what I use on my touring bike, not a Surly. Perfection, and a mobile repair stand. If you are using one of those Greenfields on a touring bike you are simply asking for trouble.

I think Surly's article, and this post, could just as well be entitled, User Error
FrenchFit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 10:45 AM   #14
FunkyStickman
On a Mission from God
 
FunkyStickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Thibodaux, LA
Bikes: '10 Surly LHT, Rat-rod Klunker, '82 Peugeot PH12 (WIP)
Posts: 2,009
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
If you like their frames and trust their design of them, why do you think they are wrong about the reasons they don't favor kickstands?
LOL, don't jump to conclusions. I like my LHT, but it's one of those things that just makes you scratch your head, that's all. They get so many big things right about their frames, but you are left wondering why they didn't do other things that make the bike more utilitarian, like a kickstand plate... it wouldn't have compromised the frame that much, lots of other builders do it with no ill effects. But hey, it's a Surly, it is what it is. It's just to me it would have made more sense to put a kickstand plate on a loaded touring bike. It's not a deal-breaker for me, I bought one anyway. There weren't a lot of other 26" touring bike framesets available.

Still wish I could have waited to buy it until after the disk version came out, but oh well... hindsight is 20/20.
FunkyStickman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 02:07 PM   #15
Bekologist
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
kickstands are NOT a liability, or damaging, on bikes that have kickstand plates.

Surly also makes bike frames with umpteen brazeons and frame fittings; they could add the plate to the bike frame that would benefit from it the most - their touring bike. do they offer a center stand on their big dummy?

why NOT the loaded touring bike? bogus concerns about the thickness of the chainstays at the BB? as if those shouldn't be any beeefier on a loaded touring bike.


its really a no-brainer, and staggeringly stubborn for Surly to come up with weakass excuses like it does in its blog for not making it easy to install a kickstand. i read the blogpost, njkayker. i still feel it offers no legitimate excuse for a popular loaded touring frame to not have a kickstand plate.

i tihnk the honest bottom line is the added cost of manufacturing the frame with versus without.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 02:40 PM   #16
LeeG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 4,690
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
I'd like to know why Surly does not have a bottle opener brazed on the head tube or seat cluster. Seriously, where are their priorities!
LeeG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 02:50 PM   #17
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 9,539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyStickman View Post
it wouldn't have compromised the frame that much, lots of other builders do it with no ill effects.
Everything is a trade-off. It appears they considered it. "Lots of other builders" also do the same thing as Surly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
i tihnk the honest bottom line is the added cost of manufacturing the frame with versus without.
This could be the case. What percentage of touring bikes at a similar price level come with plates?

No plates here (as far as I can tell).

http://www.bgcycles.com/rocknroad.html

Last edited by njkayaker; 09-24-11 at 03:06 PM.
njkayaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 03:14 PM   #18
chasm54
Banned.
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Uncertain
Bikes:
Posts: 8,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bekologist View Post

its really a no-brainer, and staggeringly stubborn for surly to come up with weakass excuses like it does in its blog for not making it easy to install a kickstand. I read the blogpost, njkayker. I still feel it offers no legitimate excuse for a popular loaded touring frame to not have a kickstand plate.

I tihnk the honest bottom line is the added cost of manufacturing the frame with versus without.
bs
chasm54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 03:15 PM   #19
Gus Riley
HomeBrew Master!
 
Gus Riley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: West Central Illinois
Bikes: Aegis Aro Svelte, Surly LHT, Cannondal R3000 tandem, Santana Triplet.
Posts: 2,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
I'd like to know why Surly does not have a bottle opener brazed on the head tube or seat cluster. Seriously, where are their priorities!
I could get this?? Doh!! I missed that one on the options list! :0)
Gus Riley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 04:03 PM   #20
Rob_E
Senior Member
 
Rob_E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Bikes: Surly World Troller, Downtube 8H
Posts: 1,977
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
It seems like opinions are split on the kickstand issue. While I would like a plate, I wouldn't go so far as to say they should have a plate. There are too many people who disagree, and, as has been pointed out, Surly makes plenty of decisions that I do agree with.

I did have a double-leg kickstand, but the the chain stay did end up dented either when the bike fell over once, or when I tried to remove it and found the bolt frozen. Had there been a kickstand plate, I don't know what difference it would have made, but at least I could have tightened it down without worrying about the stays. Not having a stand bugs me, so I just ordered the cupped upper plate that will hold the stays a little more snuggly. Although when I most miss it is parking the bike in my living room. I took a multi day trip last month and really had to think to remember if it was before or after I removed the stand (after), so I guess it wasn't a huge hardship. But I still prefer to have one.
Rob_E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-11, 04:18 PM   #21
FunkyStickman
On a Mission from God
 
FunkyStickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Thibodaux, LA
Bikes: '10 Surly LHT, Rat-rod Klunker, '82 Peugeot PH12 (WIP)
Posts: 2,009
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
This could be the case. What percentage of touring bikes at a similar price level come with plates?
Not sure about percentage of sales, but quite a few have them. Here's an article on EcoVelo with some very interesting comments pertaining to this very issue.

http://www.ecovelo.info/2011/02/24/c...ckstand-plate/
FunkyStickman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-11, 12:28 AM   #22
Thor29
Senior Member
 
Thor29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oddly enough, the Big Dummy has a kickstand plate. I have one (a Big Dummy with a kickstand), and it makes loading it a lot easier.
Thor29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-11, 02:28 AM   #23
Aushiker
Senior Member
 
Aushiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fremantle, Western Australia
Bikes: Surly Long Haul Trucker, Salsa Mukluk, Giant Defy
Posts: 1,033
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
G'day

I have a kickstand on my Surly Long Haul Trucker and love it. Great for doing what it does but also allowing me to do basic maintenance such as cleaning the chain etc. The one I went with is a Hebie Bipod Stand 606 NL with a retro fit stand plate 699 40.







Andrew
Aushiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-11, 02:38 AM   #24
MassiveD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 2,370
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
"i tihnk the honest bottom line is the added cost of manufacturing the frame with versus without."

Nah, it is what putting one on the LHT would do to their bottom line. The whole tubeset in an LHT is probably 10 bucks, an additional BO would be next to free. Blame american tourists who think spoke holders just scream serious touring bike, but stands are for kid bikes.

Stands are a popular option on 4K euro bikes, but not so here. I never miss one on mine, but my recumbent came with one - plate and quality euro stick, and I used it a lot. Also with the popularity of trailers, I think it is more important that before, though LHT is probably not the major tractor for trailers...
MassiveD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-11, 04:57 AM   #25
uciflylow
Look Ma, NO hands!
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UC Tennessee
Bikes:
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have had a LHT for years, and used a kick stand. On a 4 day trip last week I had my bike fall over more in this trip than all other trips combined! The bolt that holds the kick stand on had worked a little loose and allowed the whole thing to rotate a little. I didn't dent the stays, but did rub the paint off them! When I came home I removed the kick stand, painted the bare spots and ordered a click stand! I usually steady my front wheel to the frame with a strap when parked to prevent the wheel from turning into the frame. I like my bike to stay upright while I load and unload the panniers and rack, but usually lean it when just stopping, we will see how the click stand works out. I bought the heavy duty model with the big foot attachment and await it's arival.
uciflylow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:56 PM.