lucky1976

I am looking for a new wheelset for my Soma Double Cross which is will be using for commuting and credit card touring. I am looking for a wheelset that is going to be as bomb proof as possible, something that will last and low maintenance.

I am looking to get them handbuilt and have no experience in wheelsets. I have been reading online the last few weeks and have a few questions before making the purchase.

I am looking at Shimano f/r Hubs but was wondering the pros and cons of Ultegra/105 to the XT hubs. The Soma can use either 130mm or 135mm spacing.

I know Ultegra/105 is their road group and XT is the mtn group. XT is a little cheaper but is there a reason for the price difference? Weight difference or quality?

I am looking at 36H Hubs f/r with DT SWISS CHAMPION 14 GAUGE SILVER spokes with brass nipples.

As for rims I have read quite a bit about Velocity Dyad, Mavic A719 and they seem to be a popular choice but I also have read a few positive responses for the Salsa Delgado which are a little cheaper then the other two rims.

I am using the prowheelbuilder.com website for the build and they suggested a "Four Cross Lacing Pattern", what is your option on this?

Feel free to give me other suggestions if possible

seeker333

I'd go XT rear hub (135), whatever front hub (doesnt have to match), Mavic or Velocity rims, and either DT or Wheelsmith 14/15ga butted spokes, and brass nips.

If you want to save some weight, make the front 32 spokes. 32 is adequate for loaded touring for the front, and plenty strong for your needs. This is due to fact that an unloaded bike has a typical weight distribution of 40/60 f:r at best. For a loaded bike more like 20/80 f:r or worse. Rear wheel is stressed, front hardly loaded at all.

I prefer WS to DT spokes, as their butted spokes are just as good and a little lighter since they're 2.0/1.7mm vs DTs 2.0/1.8mm. Butted spokes usually cost a lot more than straight gauge spokes, probably add 30-40 bucks to cost of wheelset. So if cost is a concern, stick with 14ga SG spokes, doesnt add that much weight. Neither does 4 more spokes on front (32v36). Just saying you dont need them.

https://www.wheelsmith.com/spokes_db14.html

The 135mm rear Shim hub will build into a slightly less dished wheel than a 130 Shim hub, with the 135 r wheel having slightly greatly longevity. If you want to improve this some, get a Velocity asymmetric-drilled rim and build rear wheel with it. Vel makes 2-3 of these rims in 700 IIRC. Synergy is one I have used for years:

https://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=591

Most wheels are built 3X, not 4X.

LeeG

I wouldn't do 4x with straight 14gauge spokes as the spokes have to bend a lot near the hub. It matters more how the wheel is built than whether it's 3x or 4x. I've got a set of wheels with Velocity Synergy rims and not pleased with the grabby seam. They are supposed to be my do-all commuting/light touring wheels but I tweaked the front rim by putting it in a bike rack by the front wheel and it fell over. Both rims grab a bit at the seam which I don't particularly like on slippery roads.

XT or Deore doesn't matter as much as how the wheel is built.

I got a Handspun wheel last year for spare winter wheel/switching tires on the CrossCheck. The Handspun wheel has straight 14g. DT spokes on a Mavic 319 rim and Deore hub. https://www.bikeman.com/WE7256.html gotta say this wheel is tough and a hell of a value at $117.

bombproof and credit card touring, cross bike. Hmm, how about 36 spoke front and rear, Mavic Open Pro front rim with butted silver DT spokes/brass nipples and Mavic 719 rear rim with butted DT and brass nipples. Brass nipples for low cost and ease of maintenance. Seeker333 comment above is right on. Don't really need 36 spokes for the front wheel.

It's too bad 15g. spokes aren't common anymore. My long time road wheels were 36 spoke, 4x 15/16 butted on Mavic 4cd road rims on Campy Tipo hubs. Held up fine for 20yrs.

ClemY

In the so-called good old days, rims seemed to have less section depth and were consequently more flexible which tended to result in broken spokes. Clydesdales like me tended to cure the problem with more spokes. 48 spokes did a nice job of controlling a Super Champion 58 rim. These days that is no longer necessary. If you are under 200 lbs. 36 hole Velocity Dyad or Mavic A719 rims with good spokes would make very nice wheels. Consider 135mm for the rear just to minimize the dish and make a stronger wheel. Shimano mtb hubs would be fine. The LX I believe have steel axles while the XT have aluminum axles. Your choice. Recently I have been using White Industry hubs and they have worked well for me.

fietsbob

Option is, of course, 3 cross..

One physical advantage to 4 cross, is the first cross is the spoke going to the opposite side of the wheel..
so the tension pulls towards , in compression of the hub flange aluminum, between those holes.

NB: large flange hubs have more stuff between the holes.

3 cross pulls to the same side towards the hole in the rim,
so the spoke is pulling in shear tension, hole to the edge of the flange..

It seems a Shimano Tandem hub, can be re axle swapped down to 135,
same 10x1 thread and steel, only left end differs, spacers etc. [40 hole&48]
if real load carrying capacity is needed , for Big Dummy builds and such ..
but OP is talking light , so never mind that..
{ fwiw, 5 cross in a 48 spoke is like 4 cross in a 36 hole ..

the seals are better on MTB segment hubs, rather than road type.

pdlamb

One of two big problems with modern bike wheels, at least for touring, is dish, and so I'd go with the XT to get the extra width.

The other big problem is build quality. You've got some good components in mind, so no worries there. But how the wheels are build will have more of an impact on how they survive than anything else. I haven't dealt with prowheelbuilder, so I can't speak to their qualifications. If you're going to get a machine built-wheel, find a good builder locally and ask him to touch it up for you. Read Jobst Brandt's book, "The Bicycle Wheel," and grill your builder. Does he know to stress-relieve the spokes? Will he tension the spokes high enough to be able to stress relieve them? How evenly does he try to balance spoke tension? Does he own and use a spoke tensiometer, or else can he persuade you he has enough experience to build wheels without one?

I've dealt with good builders in a hole-in-the-wall shop (literally! door was to an alley!), a major outdoor sporting chain, and a suburban bike shop. And I've seen otherwise good mechanics who can true a wheel, but don't do anything about adequate or even tension.

Buyer beware!

uciflylow

My first set of touring wheels where the LX hubs DT doubble butted spokes and Salsa Delgado wheels. The wheel (rim) failed in the middle of a week long tour last year after about 3000miles and less than a 1000 of them loaded! You do NOT want this on a tour. I switched to Handspun wheels built wheels using XT Hubs, the same spokes and Mavic A719 wheels. Time will tell, but so far, so good. I did have the shop go over them when I received them and again this spring, with very little adjustments needed. BTW, I am well over 200 and usually cary a heavy load. I have also take to moving more of my touring weight over the front wheel.

MichaelW

Ive done fully loaded touring on LX hub with Mavic Open Sport. It seemed to work OK with 32mm tyres but the rim is a little narrow for wider ones.
LX still uses a steel axle and traditional bearing size, compared to the (current) XT over-sized axle and under-sized bearings. XT in practice seems to hold up OK.

rogerstg

IMO, that's not a big problem with a properly built wheel. In fact, lots of mtn hubs can be built as 130s by changing the axel & spacers.

bradtx

lucky1976, I have a 36H wheelset built with 14G spokes, Alivio M430 hubs and Sun CR18 rims. A worthy wheelset for not a lot of dinero. I'd opt for a mountain bike hubset over a road hubset. While I like offset drilled rear rims (on my mountain bike) I felt my not quite loaded touring wouldn't really require them.

Brad

Steve B.

Ditto

Rivendell has some of these exact type wheels, some built up on the Velocity Synergy. They run about $350 a pair, which is the going rate for hand built.

Peter White does the same thing, with a somewhat better selection of rims. If you call him and describe the use as well as your weight, bike and riding style and expected usage, he'll recommend and build something bombproof.

The Synergy comes as an Off Center design as well, which is great for the rear as it reduces dish. Rivendell sold me a Bontrager OC wheel many years ago that's my commuter and that I have never had to touch.

SB

Doug64

I posted this on another thread, but thought it might be appropriate here.

Hubs -Ultegra (wife's) XT (mine), spokes- Wheel Smith DB, rims-Velocity 700c Dyad 36 spokes, and all wheels are 3 cross.

The wheels were built by Universal Cycles in Portland, Oregon. The are great to work with and build an excellent wheel.

We have about 3500 miles on these wheels, all fully loaded and in a lot of rough situations. They are as true now as the day they were shipped to me.

IMO, the Ultegra road hubs have a very similar and just as good of seal as the XT mountain hubs. Both types of hubs did a good job of handling 35 days of rain, and looked good prior to repacking them last week. I use Phil Woods waterproof grease. The drawback of the XT hubs is not being able to preload the bearings when adjusting them.

tarwheel 

I had some Velocity Dyads built up with 36H Ultegra hubs and DT butted spokes, brass nipples for my main commuting bike. They have been bombproof but I recently replaced them with plain old Open Pros with 32H Ultegra hubs because they were kind of overkill for commuting and I wanted some lighter wheels. The new Velocity A23 rims are just as wide as Dyads but lighter, which could make a good choice if that's an issue.

Booger1

I have 105 hubs,WS DB spokes,Mavic A 719 rims,brass nips,36 spoke,cross 4.Haven't touched a spoke in them since they were built almost 3 years ago.

Next wheels will be Shimano tandem hubs,respaced to 135 and 48 hole A 719, cross 5.Converting the drum brake mount to except disk brakes. Probably last me the rest of my life.

dalesclyde

honestly, I think your getting bad advice from a lot of people here and your looking at overbuilding your wheels. You said CREDIT CARD TOURING. You also didn't say how much you weight. IF your well into clydesdale territory than what people are suggesting is valid but if your well south of 200lbs, you don't need anything nearly as stout as what people are suggesting. 32 holes will do you fine and you don't need the added width that some touring rims like an A719 have. IF you know your only going to be riding on paved roads and on 28c tires, you could simply build up 32 spokes front and rear and I'd go with double butted spokes and use a rim like a velocity fusion or deep v. I'm all for durability but there is apoint for certain people where things are overkill.

REgarding shimano hubs, the MTB hubs are probably better sealed to keep dirt and grime out of the bearings and as others mentioned, the dishing issue will make a strong wheel. Not a huge deal if you are credit card touring.

davidad

https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/wheels/622.html

dalesclyde

despite being machine built, those are all pretty good options. people think handbuilt wheels are magically better but truthfully, the reason why most machine built wheels fail is that they are bought by people who aren't enthusiasts and they just immediately go to town and start riding them. get a set of machine built wheels, ride them for 100 miles or so then check them for true and tension. An LBS should do that for $20-$30 and you will be in business. The CR18 is a highly regarded rim and and any shimano hub is going to work well. 2200 hubs are fine. The only thing is if you want something truly low maintenance, look at hubs that use cartridge bearings so they won't need adjusting/greasing.