Barrettscv 

Hi,

I would reconsider the small chainring and cassette.

Most touring cyclist travel use the 30 to 80 gear-inch range for all but the steepest climbs and decents. This covers the 8-20 mph speed range @ 85rpm.

The 12-27 with a 48,36 & 22t chainring set offers a tighter set of combinations in the range, without sacrificing climbing range.

cyccommute 

Careful about mixing systems. A freewheel is a very different animal than a freehub requiring very different tools and very different methods for removal. A freewheel is almost impossible to remove on the side of the road...trust me, I've tried...with the tools you can comfortable carry on a bicycle.

I have seen lots of failed freewheels either from coming apart or from seizing. In my experience, the freehub is needs about as much servicing as the cartridge bearings of the hub. But I've only every had one freehubs that have failed...and I not sure even that failed. I replaced it but it was more preventative then necessary. I did replace the freehub body on a friends Mavic mountain bike hubs but that system is, quite possibly, the most stupid design I've ever seen.

On the other hand, I have experienced a few cartridge bearing failures (fewer failures than hub and cone bearings however) and they did make the bike unrideable because the failure mode for cartridge bearings is that they stop turning. Unfortunately, all of these kinds of failures have been on hubs that weren't Phil Woods hubs so removal of the bearings was more difficult than the Phils are. The whole point of the FSC..field serviceable cassette...hubs is that you carry the tools necessary to remove the bearings in the hub itself. The axle is the punch and you could do the service on the side of the road if necessary. Freehub access is just as easy, if not easier, than the DT hubs and the parts don't fall out once you take the freehub off the cassette since the body comes out in a single unit.

cyccommute 

Every thing is fine...except: Spokes. Almost everyone does spokes the same way. They pick a good hub and good rims and then just go with 'whatever' for the spokes. Spokes do all of the heavy lifting when it comes to wheels and wheel strength. The rim is basically along for the ride. For trouble free touring, especially for us large guys with heavy loads, go with a DT Alpine III or Wheelsmith DH13 spoke.

The Alpine is a triple butted spoke that has a 2.3/1.8/2.0 mm profile while the DH13 is a 2.3/2.0 spoke. Both have heavier heads that resist fatigue better and, more importantly, provide a tighter fit in the hub. A tight fit means less spoke movement per revolution which translates to less stress on each spoke head and a stronger, longer lived wheel.

I would also suggest a Velocity Synergy O/C for the rear with a matching Synergy for the front. Your 26" wheels are going to be very strong but you could make them stronger with the Alpines or DH13 mated to the O/C which would reduce the dish on the rear wheel. These changes would give you a rear wheel (the only one you really need to worry about) whose age would be measured in geologic terms

cyccommute 

I'd agree with going to a 22 inner but there's really no reason for going to a 12-27 cassette. The closer ratios don't really gain anything while a lower gear is far more helpful when climbing. You may not use a 22/32 (or 22/34) all the time but when you need to use it, you need it.

Barrettscv 

You need to look at the whole range and the spacing of the chainring/cog combinations within the range. Keep in mind this a 26 inch wheel using a 26x1.5 tire and not the more common 700x32 (or larger) tire size. The smaller diameter of a 26x1.5 tire effects the ultimate gear range.

A 48/11 is only useful at a speed greater than 30 mph and is not needed on a touring bike. Most loaded-touring cyclist don't want to or need to travel at that speed. The 22/27 provides a 3.3 mph climbing speed at 50 rpm, a 22/32 provides a 2.7 mph climbing speed at 50 rpm. If traveling at less than 3 mph is going to be needed, than a 22/32 is a good option.

The jump from the 14t cog to the 12t cog is a 16.7% change in cadence with an 11-32 cassette. I'd rather have a tighter gear range, especially when pushing against a headwind or climbing a more common 1-2% grade. An 11-32 cassette will require large changes in cadence with most gear shifts.

Also, keep in mind the OP asked for opinions, not absolutes.

cyccommute 

I have looked at the whole range and spacing. For touring (and mountain biking), I've found that range is more important and useful than spacing. I can deal with large jumps between gears better than I can deal with the lack of a low gear. I can find a comfortable gear...or at least live with an uncomfortable one...on a flat road easier than running up against a low that is too high. The 22/27 gear will take more energy to turn over than the 22/32 even at low speeds. The numbers may say that they are similar but when the rubber hits the road, a 27 tooth low is going to feel like it's harder to pedal up a hill.

Yes, you could always walk up something that you can't pedal but having to walk and push a bike is neither comfortable nor terribly efficient. I can walk at 3 mph but I'd rather pedal at that speed.

As for the top, some of us like to go fast down hill. You rode the damn thing to the top of the hill, why spoil the ride down by not being able to pedal on the way down?

IndianaShawn

My LHT is a work in progress. I have the 26" wheels and love how they ride. I want mine to be a balance between a commuter and a touring fully loaded beast that has all the bells and whistles. It needs to be able to convert easily between the two. I haven't replaced anything on the stock bicycle except maybe the pitlocks on the wheels replaced the quick release. I have also added a constricter clamp with a security bolt on it and the seat clamp also. I think all of the equipment that surly put on the bicycle is very decent and reliable. It was suppose to be simple in design to add reliability I was told. Here are a couple pictures of my LHT. I still am working on a rear rack box that is bolted on and lockable so I don't have to worry about taking a trunk bag off and on, off and on, off and on....you get the idea. I can just leave it with the bike since the bicycle is locked to something solid (as long as the box is locked to the bike nice and tight).

LeeG

agreed, once a person goes to three chainrings you get to enjoy close ratios that one would use for unloaded riding. Wide range ratio cassettes makes sense for mtn. biking and double chainring touring but using wide range cassettes and wide range triples just gives one uneeded high gears and big gear gaps.

IndianaShawn

Sooooo, your talking about gears......right?

LeeG

right

ThermionicScott 

I don't have any good advice, but that LHT is beautiful! Only things I'd change would be the handlebars to drops and to delete the kickstand.

- Scott

mbryant52

Can I recommend v-brakes instead of cantilevers? I have used the CR-720 brakes and the Avid SD-7 brakes on my LHT are way more powerful -- important while hauling a heavy touring load. You would, however, need to select different brake levers.

Also, you won't need the UN54 bottom bracket. The M590 crankset uses an external bearing bottom bracket, which is included with the cranks. I use the same crankset on my LHT, and so far no complaints.

Here's my 62/26, for your viewing pleasure.

Bekologist

custom, collapsible racks for easy packing.

meileiblvd

mbryant52, she's a beaut! Congrats. Bekologist, any suggestions on where to find collapsible racks?

Here's the updated list:

Frame/fork: Surly Trucker Deluxe 62cm
Headset: Cane Creek 110 ex cup 1-1/8" threadless 34mm silver
Stem: Kalloy 26.0mm (Technomic Road Quill?)
Handlebar: Nitto Noodle 177 Silver Alloy 26.0 48cm
Wrap: Brooks Leather honey
Brake Levers: Tektro RL340 Ergo Brake Lever black/silver
Brakes: Tektro CR720 Canti silver
Shifters: Shimano 9sp Triple Bar end SL-BS77
Front Derailleur: Shimano Tiagra FD4503 9spd Triple 31.8/28.6mm
Rear Derailleur: Shimano XT M772-SGS Top normal Shadow
Crankset: Sugino XD 26-36-46 175mm
BB: SKS 113mm JIS square-taper
Seatpost: Kalloy 27.2 x 300mm Silver
Saddle: Brooks Flyer honey
Cassette: Shimano Deore HG50 9 Speed 12-26t
Chain: SRAM PC971 9-sp silver
Hubs: Shimano XT M770 36H silver
Spokes: Wheelsmith (?)
Rims: Velocity Synergy o/c (?)
Tires: Marathon Supreme HS 382 26x1.6
Fenders: VO aluminum (?)
Racks: Tubus Nova/Cosmo SS front/rear

I'm confused with the stem, will a 1" quill fit a 1-1/8" headset? Also, I'll likely ask the LBS to purchase wheelsets and cables as they're also giving me a hard time. Some components remained for price and others personal preference, but thanks all for your terrific suggestions! Keep 'em coming!

Doug64

A lot of our grades are in the 6% range. We started a tour from our house that was 7 miles long and averaged 6%. I've encountered grades of 12% fairly often on tours. The steepest was 18%. I pushed the bike (fully loaded) up it

IMO this is a not a good combination for a touring bike.
the 26/26 combination gives you a 26.6 gear low end. This will give you a speed of about 4.4 mph @ 50 rpm. It is 50 rpm because of the effort required.

Adding a 34 tooth rear cog will give 20.4 gear inch setup. 4.6 mph @76 rpm.

My set up: 22/32/44 crankset with a 12-34 rear cassette gives me a 17.2 gear inch low end and allows me to maintain 90 rpm@ 4.6 mph. I've used this set up on tours that crossed many of the main mountain ranges in the US and Europe, as well as the Pacific Coast Route and have never wanted a tighter gear range or a higher high gear. However, I have thought about lower gearing. a 20 tooth small chainring and a 34 tooth cassette will still get me up the hill at 4 mph @90 rpm.

If you are new to biking, maintaining a 90 rpm cadence is usually a lot more efficient than mashing a 50 rpm cadence up a hill.

meileiblvd

I obviously still don't understand gearing So with the 26-36-46 crank I'd be in better shape with an XT 11-34? Am I limited to shimano's cassettes with my tiagra/xt derailleurs or should I try branching out?

LeeG

1" quill won't fit 1 1/8" steerer. Don't trip out on the cassette, there are other manufacturers that make shimano compatible cassettes. I had a 26-36-48 crankset on a 700c LHT that I changed to 24-36-46 for a 26" LHT using a 12-28 8spd cassette. Get two cassettes and see if the difference matters to you.

cyccommute 

I find that here in the West, we seem to understand road grades better than they do in the East. We have naked mountains and we tend to flatten out the grade (our winters are little different too). Here in Colorado, anything over 7% on a paved road is unheard of. The steepest roads I've ridden are in the East. They seem to have no problem with 10%, 15% or even 25% grades The Talimena Scenic Highway in Arkansas has a short 25% grade just outside of Mena before it settles down to a more reasonable () 10% to 15% grade.

I pedaled the whole thing

This may not look steep



but the speedometer says otherwise

*

For meileiblvd's information, that is on a loaded bike with a 20/34 low gear and a strong rider. Go as low as you can if you plan on riding anywhere that has hills. You may not need it all the time but when you do, you'll be thankful for having them.



*Taking a picture of a road while riding a loaded bike at 4 mph is no easy feat. Taking a picture of the speedometer is even harder

Barrettscv 

The Tiagra (for triple) & XT derailleurs will work with the drivetrain. The cassette and crankset are within the practical limits of the derailleurs.

Two issues exist when selecting a rear derailleur. First, the largest cog size has a limit.

1. Shimano specifies that the Shimano XT Shadow SGS Rear Derailleur Top Normal will work with cassettes with up to a 36t cog size.

2. Shimano specifies that the Shimano SLX SGS Rear Derailleur Top Normal will work with cassettes with up to a 34t cog size.

3. Shimano specifies that the Shimano Deore SGS Rear Derailleur Top Normal will work with cassettes with up to a 32t cog size.

4. Shimano specifies that the Shimano 2012 Tiagra GS Rear Derailleur will work with cassettes with up to a 30t cog size.

The second issue is chain wrap capacity. This relates to the amount of chain slack the derailleur can take up, and is equal to the front range plus the rear range. Thus, if you have a 48/36/26 crank set, and an 11-32 cluster, the total capacity required would theoretically be 43 teeth (22 front difference + 21 rear difference).

Shimano is very conservative with these ratings. They must do so, because they have to assume that some of their products will be sold to incompetent cyclists, who will abuse their drive trains by using the small chainwheel-small cog and big chainwheel-big cog combinations. I can build a drivetrain that exceeds these ratings by 3 to 5 units with zero risks. However, the bike frame and chain length determines the ultimate limit, so YMMV.

1. Shimano specifies that the Shimano XT Shadow SGS Rear Derailleur Top Normal has a chain wrap capacity of 45.

2. Shimano specifies that the Shimano SLX SGS Rear Derailleur Top Normal has a chain wrap capacity of 45.

3. Shimano specifies that the Shimano Deore SGS Rear Derailleur Top Normal has a chain wrap capacity of 43.

4. Shimano specifies that the Shimano Tiagra GS Rear Derailleur has a chain wrap capacity of 37.

IndianaShawn

Nice picture of the road. Too bad there isn't a bike lane off to the side. It looks really peaceful there.

cyccommute 

Bike lanes are few and far between out in the real world. On the other hand, I saw 3 or 4 cars over the 2 days that I was on this section of road. There's a road that parallels the Talimena that carries more traffic but has wider shoulders. I road that one too and could have avoided about 4 hours of really, really intense suffering

meileiblvd

Well, it's arriving piece by piece, so I thought I'd put a few up on the rack to show it off in its early stages All that's left to deliver is the front derailleur, cables, and getting the wheels built. Apparently Velocity rims are setting up shop in Florida, so hopefully they'll be good to go soon and I'll have some superman 26"'s! Yes, it came right off the rack once the picture was taken, I don't want to scratch my baby. Yet.

djb

throwing this in so that I keep track of the thread...
I do hope that you get a 11-32 or 34, you will appreciate it one day (or in other words, it is not in your best interest to get the 11-26). I personally am in the camp of liking tighter cassettes, but you really do want a low gear of around 20 gear inches. Did anyone refer you to this gearing calculator to get the gear inches depending on your wheels and gearing combo:

https://sheldonbrown.com/gears/

just remember to change the "wheelsize", cranksize and especially "gear units" to "gear inches".

oh, very good gearing discussion and explanations here folks.

ps, here is the chart for my mtn bike with a 22-32-42 crank that I use for all kinds of road riding, commuting and throwing on 25-30lbs of stuff at times, just so you can see the chart and the numbers.
Your choice of a 26-36-46 crank is an excellent choice, as the 36 middle chainring is where you will be spending the vast majority of your time anyway (I find the 32 a bit too low, but hey, its whats there and it works, plus I am happy with the 20 gear inch low I have and I've climbed lots of 15%+ hills with 25lbs or so on the bike and it works well.)

*one thing you will see when you start riding with bags on your bike, is that with steep hills, every increasing 5lbs or so really has an impact on how hard it is to get up a given hill at a given gradient. Low gearing is a very, very important part, but keeping your loaded weight in check is a big big factor in how hard you have to work.

djb

Barrets, have you ever put up a link to your gearing chart setup? I like how you can visually compare diff setups, and like in your example here, easily see how the jumps between gears are shorter with the tighter cassette. I'd like to put in my bikes to see them in that way.
thanks

FunkyStickman

You can play around with this one:
https://www.gear-calculator.com/