raria

Hi,

I have this touring bike Fuji Bikes | 2009 Touring | Bike Archives which comes with Tektro Oryx cantilever brakes.

I've done plenty of over night tours with it so only had about 10-15 on the rear panniers nothing up front and the brakes handle nicely, quite sufficient.

Now I want to do a week+ long tour on this bike so I'll need to load up with 40+ pounds.

Is this recommended with Cantilever brakes? Any suggestions/recommendations for a better brake set or pads?

I weight 175 pounds so in total there will be well over 210+ pounds on the bike.

saddlesores

why not? i did many tens of thousands of miles loaded touring
with cantilever brakes. heavily loaded. like bike and me
and 4 bags and trailer and 5 gallons water and way way way
too much stuff.

you've linked to a tour bike designed with that brake system,
built for heavy touring with rear rack and low rider mounts.
40 pounds should be no problem, but think about moving some
weight forward, don't want it all on the rear.

get some new high-performancy brake pads and clean the rims.
and then load it up and go for a spin, see how it handles.

raria

Thanks so your experience was good. Any downsides to Canti compares to disc brakes?

I'm curious what people thought who done say a 500 mile tour with cantilever brakes

saddlesores

tour distance don't make no nevermind really. a 50-mile tour in the alps
will be more enllightening than a thousand-mile ride across the nullarbor.
i pulled that heavy load with trailer around australia, and all around new
zealand. went with 4 bags in the alps. didn't exactly stop on a dime,
but it stopped...........eventually.

they can be a little finicky to get adjusted properly, but that seems to be
true for all brake systems.

you might want to "upgrade" to v-brakes....have to ask the experts if the
braze-on studs are spaced correctly, and if the brake levers will work.

BigAura

Kool-Stop brake pads are excellent and I'd recommend them for easier setup & better stopping power.

I used them with canti-brakes for my US coast-to-coast tour and they work fine.

The next year I switched to V-brakes (with Kool-Stop too) and that improved my stopping power, even more.

Personally I'd recommend upgrading to V-brakes BUT you'll need doing something with your brifters, like ditch them and get bar-ends

raria

That's interesting you mention "upgrade" to v-brakes. I always found v-brakes to be the best brakes (nearly as good as my 5800 caliper brakes but always thought they were meant for cheap bikes.

I have STI's on that bike older Tiagra (I believe 4500) so v-brakes will be tough to set up. Maybe mini-v brakes.

Thanks. Kool-stop are on my list.

fietsbob

Mine have been fine for decades..

all types , some have longer arms, some are more compact.. longer front shorter rear , for heel clearance is done..

the Alps on your tour route?


[Been using cantilever brakes on all my touring bikes, , for over 30 years]






....

elcruxio

Older shimano brifters have enough cable pull to make mini vee's work. You just need to find the shortest arms possible. I don't know which are currently the shortest so you'll need to do your research. I used to have shimano mini vee brakes (can't remember the code) which were heavy, cheap and stopped extremely well. They were grabby though and I had Sram brifters so I had to use travel agents to make them work in the first place.
If you decide to go the Mini Vee way you may still need to use travel agents but while they are gimmicky and requires extra cleaning, as long as you replace your brake cable often enough (once a year to be safe) you should be more than ok with them.

As for what I would not recommend, stay away from Avid Shorty ultimates. They are by far the worst brake I've used. They do have some power but are a total bi*** to maintain and keep centered. The centering system is cool and innovative and all but it's also a recipe for broken threads and no brakes on the middle of the road. And the friction system they employ does not hold so you need adjust them frequently.

And due to the arm shape, they are extremely difficult to get the pads centered so that they are not at an angle against the rim. I suppose I could use a whole working day twiddling with them and still not get it right because the pad attatchment system just sucks so bad.
Or my rims are too wide. That's actually also a possibility but honestly if a brake can't handle wide rims then it's a dud from the beginning.

Ajkollme

I highly recommend TRP mini v brakes. I have them on a few of my bikes, including my tandem. They are easy to set up and are made to work with road levers without having to use travel agents.


It looks like you have Shimano, so you would need the CX9 (optimized to work with Shimano), versus the CX8.4, which is designed to work with SRAM / Campy (and is what I use). Here's a link:


https://www.amazon.com/TRP-Linear-Pu.../dp/B0064HLN18

raria

Now this is why I stay on this forum. Some of you guys are just encyclopedias! Your wife may not appreciate your knowledge but most of us here do.

So will the mini v brakes be much better than my cantilever brakes in terms of stopping power?

Darth_Firebolt

Yes. I upgraded my Tricross from cantis to mini-v's and it stoppies like a mountain bike. I have the older sora, uhhh 3400?

indyfabz

I have descended plenty of western mountain passes and steep hills in the east on my large, heavy LHT with my 210 lb. body and heavy loads. Oryx cantis that came on the bike never worried me. Have upgraded to Kool Stop mountain salmon pads.

saddlesores

bar ends? crazy talk!
too exposed, too many parts.
downtube shifters is where it's at, man.

acantor

Cantilever brakes, properly set up, are fine for loaded touring. (Emphasis on the set up!) I have cantilever brakes on both of my touring bikes: one has 32 year old cantilever brake technology, the other, 13.

But if I were to get a new touring bike today, I would seriously consider V-brakes or disc brakes. Both offer greater stopping power and braking control than cantilevers.

On the other hand, I have always managed to brake before running into something with cantilever brakes, even when descending mountain passes while riding a loaded bike.

jefnvk

Grr, I missed out on that exact bike on CL for $250 last week by a couple hours!

I weigh about 215# without bags, and didnt have any real concerns on cantis on one of my previous bikes. I did change to V brakes, only because I accidentally bought wrong levers when I rebuilt it, and will say they are MUCH nicer. The cantis worked, though, they're going on another build that I'm halfway contemplating touring on next summer. As others have said, Kool Stops really do make a difference.

djb

Raria, you ask the question as if cantis don't work, but they work fine. I suspect every one of us here have toured on loaded touring bikes with cantis for decades in all kinds of terrain, with no problems, I know I have.

Good pads, properly set up cantis, keeping pads and rim clean of grit after rain riding, proper braking technique, using common sense of judging your braking ability and conditions, and you are set to go.

Don't over think this, cantis work fine.
Yes, disc work great, but again, cantis work so just get out there and enjoy yourself, your braking system is not going to change things.

Just remember, brake harder with your front brake to slow down properly, no matter the system.

pdlamb

+1


I know it's early winter, and since it's hard to get out and ride we all sit down and surf the web, look at new stuff, imagine trying something out, etc., etc. Come next spring, it'll be time to get out on the road and RIDE! Don't fall prey to analysis paralysis.


But if money is burning a hole in your pocket, sure, go spend some.

prairiepedaler

Those who design frames / bicycles build them for canti use specifically for clearance but also because they'll stop the bike adequately. Never seen v-Brakes on a touring frame before, but have seen dual pivot side-pulls. Some canti designs are better in terms of set-up ease, build quality and application of force to the rims than others. From what I've read, the avid shorty ultimates are a top shelf modern cantilever. If I was going on a long far-away tour I'd give those a close look as an upgrade.

Tourist in MSN

I have gone down many 8 to 12 percent grade hills with a fully loaded touring bike with Nashbar canti brakes that were essentially a copy of Oryx brakes. Not a problem. The pads I used on that tour are in the first photo. I changed pads when I got home, there was not a lot of pad left on them at the end of the trip.

Braking improves with Koolstop Salmon pads.

I personally find that canti brakes and V brakes are roughly comparable, but canti brakes have to be set up the first time with the right amount of straddle cable to work at their best potential. But many on this board have a strong preference for V brakes over canti brakes. In addition to the bikes I have with V brakes I have two with canti brakes and one with vintage centerpull brakes. Set up well and they all work well.

I use mini V brakes on my foldup bike. I find I have to be careful to not pull too hard because the cable pull is such that you have a lot of leverage. But it also means that your brakes have to be adjusted quite well on well trued wheels to avoid brake rub. I do not have fenders on that bike. Mini V brakes might not work on some bikes with fenders.

On two of my touring bikes I use V brakes and regular brake levers, I use Travel Agents to compensate for the different cable pull. They look a bit funky but they work fine. Photos show what I mean, the silver thing in the second photo is the Travel Agent. A friend of mine uses full size V brakes on his Bike Friday with brifters, he also uses travel agents on that bike.

Eggman84

Cantilevers, V-brakes, side pull, and disk brakes will all stop a bike if properly setup. Conversely, they will also all fail to stop you on a dime in the right conditions. I find everyone's answer to what is the one and only brake proven to work is based on anecdotal evidence (i.e., I was flying down a hill at xxx mph, when a unicorn jumped out in front of me, and I had to stop in zzz feet).

I have cantis' on both a touring bike and tandem, both of which I have used for fully self contained touring. On the tandem, I have not had any problem stopping, though on long downhills I have stopped occasionally to let the rims cool. Don't know if it was necessary but seemed prudent and the scenery was lovely. I have short arm Vee-brakes on my wife's touring bike, and they seem to stop just fine as well.

The only real limitation I know of for all rim brakes is that when the rims are wet, it takes longer to stop. Disk brakes don't have this limitation. I'll leave it up to others to decide what type of brake works best for them.

Karl

mstateglfr 

Canti brakes, when set up properly, will stop you just fine each and every time.
I weigh 230 which alone is more than you plus your gear and canti brake bikes stop me just fine coming down hills on pavement and gravel. I have never felt out of control or concerned I wont stop in time.

With that said, I also havent ridden down some 6 mile long mountain descent with loaded gear. I doubt I would feel like I couldn’t stop, but perhaps I would need to ride the brakes a lot more than normal and a bit harder. I wouldn’t think twice about using my current touring bike though, and I am hardly a risk seeking adrenaline junky.

Your stock brakes are an entry level type that are noted for a lack of easy adjustability. There are a number of quality canti brakes that are more expensive and allow for better/easier adjustability in setup, but if your brakes are set up properly, they will work just as well as the more expensive options.



Quality brake pads make a huge difference as the pads on entry level brakes are typically hard and made for long use at the expense of fast stopping.


Vbrakes are really easy to set up, which is the best thing about them. They can lock up wheels really easily, and people view that as a benefit, but I think its something that is a positive and a negative. Sure, its easy to brake, but the modulation is terrible. I don’t always want to go from full speed to a skidding stop. Canti brakes inherently allow for more modulation since they don’t lock up the wheel quite as quickly as vbrakes.



Really though you plus bag weight is less than what I alone weigh. 20minute long fully loaded mountain descents are about the only place I could see properly set up canti brake bikes lacking- and that’s only compared to disc brakes.

GamblerGORD53

OR you can get a Sturmey Archer dyno drum front hub and do laps around the world with NO adjustments or pads. Mine has 23,000 miles with just a bearing change at 17,000. It works rain or snow, hot or cold on my 290 lb heavyweight. Crashing or baggage handler bashing has ZERO effect. I'll use my travel agent to book the flights on Cathay Pacific. LOL

staehpj1

I have done a coast to coast (Trans America route miles 4200+) and several other long (1000 +/- mile) tours on the same brakes you have. They were with various loads ranging from 30-55 pounds and the brakes worked well. I ran Avid pads when the original ones wore out.

JaccoW

The 90mm XL version I presume?

I like drums though they 'might' be more prone to overheating during long descents. I have never experienced that though.

One thing I personally don't like about V-brakes is the thinner pads compared to cantis. In wet/gritty condition this means you will wear through them much sooner.
Other than that... Try the cantis. They're not much better or worse than v-brakes.

cyccommute 

The better question would be are there any upsides to disc brakes? Frankly, I would say no. I have just about every brake you'll find in common use for the last 20 years on a variety of bikes: disc, linear and cantilever. There isn't one of them that doesn't work just as well as the others.

I think the real key is that my brakes have always been set up like what many people experience for the first time with disc brakes, i.e. a short lever pull and quick actuation. Lots of bikes are set up so the brakes don't actuate until half lever pull. I've always found this to result in poor braking. Hub mounted discs set up this way result in really poor braking.

Keep the brakes tight and lever movement relatively minimal and most any brake will work properly.

Braking in wet weather takes longer to stop on all brake systems. Stopping distance isn't determined by the brake mechanism but by the friction you can develop between the tire and the road. It make take a little longer to clear the water between the rim and a rim brake pad than with a hub mounted disc but, honestly, the difference is minimal in my experience. I can still stop in the rain just about as well with any brake.

I haven't used the Avid Shorty Ultimates but I have used Avid Shortys. I'm not a fan either. They were the squealiest brakes I've ever used. Every brake application called forth the Banshee

About the best cantilever I've used is Paul's. I have several sets. They are easy to set up and center. Yes, they cost a bit more but they are worth the money.

I would suggest Koolstop dual compound pads over straight salmon pads. They seem to cut down on the squeal of Avid Shorty's pretty well and have worked really well with my Pauls