Loaded Tour FAIL - What went wrong?
05-11-12, 06:19 PM
#26
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You can knock off at least 15 lbs, maybe 20, for an overnighter by careful selection of what's really required. As for the heavy tent, pick a rain free couple of days, leave it at home, bed down under a tarp. Deet for mossy protection. You'll have accomplished your goal of doing an unsupported overnighter. The weight reduction alone might solve the stability issue.
Ideas for toting less and surviving.
I fall in the camp that you may have needed to ride the loaded bike longer to adjust to the load. My aluminum DF is not near the quality of yours and I've never had the issue you described, even the one time when I had all 40 lbs on the rear. Does feel more stable with a 50/50 distribution.
After riding it loaded for days on end, it does feels real squirrelly unloaded. But just for a little while.
Ideas for toting less and surviving.
I fall in the camp that you may have needed to ride the loaded bike longer to adjust to the load. My aluminum DF is not near the quality of yours and I've never had the issue you described, even the one time when I had all 40 lbs on the rear. Does feel more stable with a 50/50 distribution.
After riding it loaded for days on end, it does feels real squirrelly unloaded. But just for a little while.
05-11-12, 06:31 PM
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You might also try shifting your weight around -- less on the saddle, more on the pedals, etc.
It sounds like you might be heavy enough to be at or near the limit of the frame, in terms of flex.
It sounds like you might be heavy enough to be at or near the limit of the frame, in terms of flex.
05-11-12, 06:31 PM
#28
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I really didn't pack that much gear, despite what it looks like in the photo. The panniers were mostly filled with clothes, with heavier items on the bottoms and no real space for stuff to shift around. I certainly could have left some items out, such as a spare tire and 3 tubes, but the heaviest items by far were my tent, sleep bag and mat. Unfortunately, they were all too large to fit in the panniers so had to go on the top of the rack, adding to the weight distribution problem. The tent bag is hanging off the back because the poles are that long, but most of the tent itself is on the rack.
I did not ride my bike loaded very long at all, just up the street a couple of hundred yards. But it literally felt so unstable and wobbly that it didn't seem safe to ride. I don't believe that riding it longer would have made me feel much more confident. It wasn't a balance issue, but frame itself wobbling. Without buying a front rack and panniers, I can't see a way to realistically distribute the weight much better because there's nowhere to put the gear.
I am finding the bike touring is very expensive. The entry costs are high, just for strictly bike related gear, and then you really have to invest in ultra-light camping gear. I was hoping I could make do with my existing camping gear but that now looks like it won't work. Very frustrating.
I did not ride my bike loaded very long at all, just up the street a couple of hundred yards. But it literally felt so unstable and wobbly that it didn't seem safe to ride. I don't believe that riding it longer would have made me feel much more confident. It wasn't a balance issue, but frame itself wobbling. Without buying a front rack and panniers, I can't see a way to realistically distribute the weight much better because there's nowhere to put the gear.
I am finding the bike touring is very expensive. The entry costs are high, just for strictly bike related gear, and then you really have to invest in ultra-light camping gear. I was hoping I could make do with my existing camping gear but that now looks like it won't work. Very frustrating.
05-11-12, 06:39 PM
#29
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I used to play around with carbon fiber fabrication. It seems possible to me to wrap strategic areas of the frame (overlay them with epoxy-wetted carbon fiber cloth), and eliminate some of the frame flex that way.
But that may not be necessary if you can stabilize it in other ways.
I don't think it's something you can't solve with a little more digging and experimentation.
You can also just learn to compensate using some of the approaches suggested, or try a combination of more stable setup and different riding techniques.
Good luck. Sounds like you're a bit disappointed now, but you should be able to solve it before long.
But that may not be necessary if you can stabilize it in other ways.
I don't think it's something you can't solve with a little more digging and experimentation.
You can also just learn to compensate using some of the approaches suggested, or try a combination of more stable setup and different riding techniques.
Good luck. Sounds like you're a bit disappointed now, but you should be able to solve it before long.
05-11-12, 07:06 PM
#30
How about experimenting with the maximum weight that you can ride with? Ride a while then try and add one more item at a time each subsequent ride.
Also you may want to post your gear list. How did you determine 40 pounds of gear?
Also you may want to post your gear list. How did you determine 40 pounds of gear?
05-11-12, 07:20 PM
#31
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However, when I headed down the driveway and up the street, it soon became apparent that something was wrong. The whole bike was handling very strange, with the fork very wobbly and the entire frame feeling like it was flexing. It felt like the frame was made of rubber. There was no way I could ride it like that, it just felt unsafe. Needless to say, I called off the trip for now.
Fast forward a week and I was riding the exact same bike with the exact same load with laser precision down the road. It took about 4hrs on the first day of the tour to get my touring legs and feel comfy on that bike.
Your bike may not have a problem you need to solve.
05-11-12, 07:36 PM
#32
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I think it was weight distribution rather than weight per se. I now weigh about 165, down from nearly 200 lbs in 2010. That difference in weight alone is nearly how much weight I was carrying. I also don't think it's the stiffness of the frame. Bob Jackson has been building touring frames a long time, and this frame has special tubing designed for loaded touring. Stiffness was never an issue when I weighed more, and this bike has the stiffest frame of my 5 road bikes.
I determined the weight of the load my weighing myself alone and then holding the loaded bike. I had previously weighed the unloaded frame, and it was about 24 lbs. including the front rack and pedals but not the pump, computer, bottle cages or rear rack. Anyway, with all my bike gear on, I weighed 172 lbs. Holding the loaded frame with full water bottles, the total weight was 236 lbs. The difference is 64 lbs. Subtracting the weight of the bike, with bottles, racks and other added components, the weight of the load was probably closer to 35 than 40 lbs.
I brought along no cooking supplies or food to cook. Here is what I had in the load:
- Tent and fly with minimum number of stakes
- Sleeping bag
- Thermarest pad
- Lightweight slacks, shirt, briefs and t-shirt
- Extra cycling shorts, jersey, base layer and socks for second day of ride
- Kindle reader
- Maps
- Spare tire and 3 tubes
- About 8 granola bars and some gels
- Running shoes for walking around after the ride
- Lightweight cycling rain shell
- Tire repair equpt.
- Multi-tool
- Wallet
- Cell phone
- Charging cable for cell
- Lightweight AA flashlight and spare batteries
- Small point-and-shoot camera
- Baseball cap
- Bath supplies, all small portions (soap, toothbrush, chapstick, etc.)
- Small handlebar and front rack bags
- Arm and leg warmers
- Short and long-finger gloves
- Helmet (worn)
- Cycling shoes (worn)
I determined the weight of the load my weighing myself alone and then holding the loaded bike. I had previously weighed the unloaded frame, and it was about 24 lbs. including the front rack and pedals but not the pump, computer, bottle cages or rear rack. Anyway, with all my bike gear on, I weighed 172 lbs. Holding the loaded frame with full water bottles, the total weight was 236 lbs. The difference is 64 lbs. Subtracting the weight of the bike, with bottles, racks and other added components, the weight of the load was probably closer to 35 than 40 lbs.
I brought along no cooking supplies or food to cook. Here is what I had in the load:
- Tent and fly with minimum number of stakes
- Sleeping bag
- Thermarest pad
- Lightweight slacks, shirt, briefs and t-shirt
- Extra cycling shorts, jersey, base layer and socks for second day of ride
- Kindle reader
- Maps
- Spare tire and 3 tubes
- About 8 granola bars and some gels
- Running shoes for walking around after the ride
- Lightweight cycling rain shell
- Tire repair equpt.
- Multi-tool
- Wallet
- Cell phone
- Charging cable for cell
- Lightweight AA flashlight and spare batteries
- Small point-and-shoot camera
- Baseball cap
- Bath supplies, all small portions (soap, toothbrush, chapstick, etc.)
- Small handlebar and front rack bags
- Arm and leg warmers
- Short and long-finger gloves
- Helmet (worn)
- Cycling shoes (worn)
05-11-12, 08:19 PM
#33
I think your gear basically looks good. I'd leave the spare tire and only carry two tubes, but that's not a big deal. The 8 pound tent could be half the weight, or less for a solo. But actually I still think your rig is all good, and your bike is a beauty. Weight distribution will help BUT (sorry to keep repeating) ---> you need to get use to riding the loaded bike.
05-11-12, 08:20 PM
#34
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We started riding a tandem almost 2 years ago, and when we did we spent several days riding here and there on the tandem. Then I headed out for a ride by myself on my single bicycle and within a few hundred metres, I stopped to check the bicycle and see if there was something wrong. The bicycle felt so squirrelly ... like the tires were flat or headset was loose or something. Everything seemed all right so I kept riding and within a few km, the bicycle settled down and felt all right again.
This sort of thing happens when changing from one bicycle to another and one weight of bicycle to another.
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Last edited by Machka; 05-11-12 at 08:45 PM.
05-11-12, 08:49 PM
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You might also consider a trailer. Just a thought. I use a trailer for my gear and tour on a Criterium Geometry bike, because it's the most comfortable bike for me.
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05-11-12, 08:59 PM
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Yes, you do need to get the touring handling thing sussed out, but to do that you really need to know that it is not the bike or the load. A bunch of internet superintendents like me telling you that you need to just get used to it and then ten miles down the road your fork falls off
Here is what I would do if I got on my bike and it seemed to wobbly. In no real order, I would.
Check the tire pressure
that the wheels are on tight
Check for even spoke tension(unlikely, but you never know)
ALL nuts on the racks, by wiggling and actualy tightening
Check that the bags are correctly connected. Not sure how ortlieb works, but if the bags themselves rock around thats no good.
Check every bolt on the bike.
Then, if that did not show anything obvious, I would try getting the bike up to speed, and when it started to wobble press your knee against the top tube. If that stops or reduces the shimmy then you do have a problem. The knee thing dampens oscillations.
Otherwise, try riding it with just the bags for a while around the block. Try to rack up some slow turns and a few miles, see if you get used to it. most people do a shakedown run first. If it gets better then try putting the heavy stuff back on. Everyone is probably right that it just feels weird to you.
Here is what I would do if I got on my bike and it seemed to wobbly. In no real order, I would.
Check the tire pressure
that the wheels are on tight
Check for even spoke tension(unlikely, but you never know)
ALL nuts on the racks, by wiggling and actualy tightening
Check that the bags are correctly connected. Not sure how ortlieb works, but if the bags themselves rock around thats no good.
Check every bolt on the bike.
Then, if that did not show anything obvious, I would try getting the bike up to speed, and when it started to wobble press your knee against the top tube. If that stops or reduces the shimmy then you do have a problem. The knee thing dampens oscillations.
Otherwise, try riding it with just the bags for a while around the block. Try to rack up some slow turns and a few miles, see if you get used to it. most people do a shakedown run first. If it gets better then try putting the heavy stuff back on. Everyone is probably right that it just feels weird to you.
05-11-12, 09:02 PM
#38
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To the OP,
I was away from the computer for a while, and during that time it occurred to me that you can probably learn to ride that thing just fine, even the way it is. Even worse than it is.
No, I should modify that: not 'probably'; more like 'certainly.'
I've had loads on bikes that I couldn't ride for ten feet without falling over. Lightening the loads a bit, just to the point where they were manageable, and then riding that way for a while, then adding to it and riding that for a while, and so on.... And I kept pushing it and testing it (partly out of wonder and fascination at the loads carried by Vietnamese down the Ho Chi Minh Trail) to see how much I could carry. In the end, I was up close to three hundred pounds on the racks (racks only, not including me and the bike).
Those sorts of loads would have been utterly impossible for me in the beginning. VIRTUALLY ANYONE WHO TRIED WOULD HAVE FALLEN OVER ALMOST IMMEDIATELY, probably before even getting fully onto the bike!, and certainly within a very few yards.
Not only was I able to ride it before long, but it actually started feeling rock stable, more so than before, and quite natural.
The process isn't so foreign. We all went through it when first learning to ride a bike.
Now it's second nature.
[Which isn't to say that you might not be able to come up with a more satisfactory weight distribution and arrangement as well, and possibly improve the hardware; but it seems like the first thing to try (after checking for hardware faults or defects) is to find out how comfortable you can become with it if you give yourself a chance.
You may have just been new to this sort of phenomenon. Most of us have felt almost impossibly wobbly at some point with a new or newly loaded touring setup, or after a hiatus.]
I was away from the computer for a while, and during that time it occurred to me that you can probably learn to ride that thing just fine, even the way it is. Even worse than it is.
No, I should modify that: not 'probably'; more like 'certainly.'
I've had loads on bikes that I couldn't ride for ten feet without falling over. Lightening the loads a bit, just to the point where they were manageable, and then riding that way for a while, then adding to it and riding that for a while, and so on.... And I kept pushing it and testing it (partly out of wonder and fascination at the loads carried by Vietnamese down the Ho Chi Minh Trail) to see how much I could carry. In the end, I was up close to three hundred pounds on the racks (racks only, not including me and the bike).
Those sorts of loads would have been utterly impossible for me in the beginning. VIRTUALLY ANYONE WHO TRIED WOULD HAVE FALLEN OVER ALMOST IMMEDIATELY, probably before even getting fully onto the bike!, and certainly within a very few yards.
Not only was I able to ride it before long, but it actually started feeling rock stable, more so than before, and quite natural.
The process isn't so foreign. We all went through it when first learning to ride a bike.
Now it's second nature.
[Which isn't to say that you might not be able to come up with a more satisfactory weight distribution and arrangement as well, and possibly improve the hardware; but it seems like the first thing to try (after checking for hardware faults or defects) is to find out how comfortable you can become with it if you give yourself a chance.
You may have just been new to this sort of phenomenon. Most of us have felt almost impossibly wobbly at some point with a new or newly loaded touring setup, or after a hiatus.]
Last edited by Niles H.; 05-11-12 at 09:18 PM.
05-11-12, 11:27 PM
#39
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+1 on this. I was touring a few years ago and started getting a strange wobble throughout the bike. I later found that most of the bolts attaching the rack to the bike had loosened from a terrible road I rode the day before. Everything was back to normal after I tightened them.
05-11-12, 11:36 PM
#40
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What if you were to take some test/training runs partially loaded? Maybe start with 10 lbs. in each rear pannier with the weight as low as possible. If that feels controllable add a few pounds to each pannier and try again. Maybe by gradually adding the weight you will get used to the different handling characteristics of the loaded bike. Maybe at some point there will come a tipping point where you can say "now I know I have to put some of this weight up front". Or maybe your body will learn to control the bike much as you had it on your first try.
Don't get too discouraged. You have put too much effort into getting to the point you are at now and it is likely a little more will put you over the hump and on the road. Good looking bike!
Don't get too discouraged. You have put too much effort into getting to the point you are at now and it is likely a little more will put you over the hump and on the road. Good looking bike!
05-12-12, 01:47 AM
#41
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I am finding the bike touring is very expensive. The entry costs are high, just for strictly bike related gear, and then you really have to invest in ultra-light camping gear. I was hoping I could make do with my existing camping gear but that now looks like it won't work. Very frustrating.
05-12-12, 02:12 AM
#42
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My BJ World Tour is more of a medium tourer than a full expedition beast of burden even though it is made from Reynolds 531ST (Super Tourist grade steel). The traditional tube diameter is not as stiff or rigid as many modern frames and the wheel base is not as long as modern expedition tourers so loading the rear up makes it feel quite "tippy" and light at the front.
If you have horizontal dropouts, try moving the axle as far to the rear as possible. You may need to adjust the rear mech B Screw to maintain clearance between the sprocket and pulley wheels. An extra 1cm of wheelbase makes quite a difference.
I use a Tubus Tara with 2 Ortleibs at the front. This balances the weight well and calms down the steering. I can manage a heavy load with full cooking gear, a week's fuel, cold weather clothing, too many maps and guidebooks. I have toured a lot with only the rear panniers but only in lightweight camping mode with no cooking kit.
When you load up your rear panniers and rack, put the heavy stuff as far forward as possible. If you have to hang stuff out the back, make it the light stuff like sleeping mats.
Any bike fully loaded will develope handling quirks and in my experience, with a bit of riding you automatically adjust for them.
If you have horizontal dropouts, try moving the axle as far to the rear as possible. You may need to adjust the rear mech B Screw to maintain clearance between the sprocket and pulley wheels. An extra 1cm of wheelbase makes quite a difference.
I use a Tubus Tara with 2 Ortleibs at the front. This balances the weight well and calms down the steering. I can manage a heavy load with full cooking gear, a week's fuel, cold weather clothing, too many maps and guidebooks. I have toured a lot with only the rear panniers but only in lightweight camping mode with no cooking kit.
When you load up your rear panniers and rack, put the heavy stuff as far forward as possible. If you have to hang stuff out the back, make it the light stuff like sleeping mats.
Any bike fully loaded will develope handling quirks and in my experience, with a bit of riding you automatically adjust for them.
05-12-12, 06:13 AM
#43
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+1
I almost quit bike touring a few years ago because I hated the way a loaded bike handled. It felt more like driving the bike than riding. I got a trailer (two wheel) and solved all my problems. The bike handles almost like unloaded when towing, just a little slower.
As far as cost, you can put together a decent flat bed trailer made from an old kiddie trailer for almost nothing. People practically give them away.
I almost quit bike touring a few years ago because I hated the way a loaded bike handled. It felt more like driving the bike than riding. I got a trailer (two wheel) and solved all my problems. The bike handles almost like unloaded when towing, just a little slower.
As far as cost, you can put together a decent flat bed trailer made from an old kiddie trailer for almost nothing. People practically give them away.
05-12-12, 06:23 AM
#44
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05-12-12, 07:20 AM
#45
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Hmmm ... Sounds like I'll have to invest in some front panniers and rack. This all gets very expensive! I've been buying touring parts in bits and pieces over several years and just saved enough to get the bike built up and rear panniers. My tent is also heavy and bulky, too large to put in panniers, but a lighter one would be even more money to plunk down.
I had a touring rig with a ton of sway and shimmy when I got going fast. I believe it was a combination of too much weight, less-than-rock-solid racks, and 1" tubing on a whippy 63cm frame. I replaced a bunch of my camping gear with lighter weight stuff, got a new LHT frame, a Tubus rear rack and a Jandd front, and the sway and shimmy went away completely.
Of course, a fully-loaded bike always handles funny, especially at really slow speeds. I've seen people crash when getting going from a standing start. I have to concentrate climbing passes because I'm going so slowly it's easy to wander off my line if I don't pay attention.
Keep tinkering. Spend a little money? You should get it sorted out. Have fun.
05-12-12, 07:31 AM
#46
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After my first (very poorly loaded) tour, I remember spending days getting the feel of the bike. The funny thing was, my first time on the bike, back home after removing the load, I couldn't ride it ride right away. I fell right off the other side, the first time I got on it. It's amazing what you can get used to.
Some of the comments above about lightening the load fall into what I call "the farther you go, the less you carry" category. I actually carry more on short trips. A spare tire and three tubes? An eight pound tent? Extra clothing and ball cap? No way would I carry that on a long tour. Maybe on a weekender with my family. Investing in light weight gear makes sense for a multi-month tour, not a weekender.
I agree with the comments above about reducing where you can, which is happening, and acclimating to the load, maybe in stages. If you can't reduce enough, you may need front packs or a trailer, but I sure agree with resisting that for price reasons, too. Good luck to you.
Some of the comments above about lightening the load fall into what I call "the farther you go, the less you carry" category. I actually carry more on short trips. A spare tire and three tubes? An eight pound tent? Extra clothing and ball cap? No way would I carry that on a long tour. Maybe on a weekender with my family. Investing in light weight gear makes sense for a multi-month tour, not a weekender.
I agree with the comments above about reducing where you can, which is happening, and acclimating to the load, maybe in stages. If you can't reduce enough, you may need front packs or a trailer, but I sure agree with resisting that for price reasons, too. Good luck to you.
05-12-12, 08:15 AM
#47
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I agree with the people that suspect poor load balancing - the tent & sleeping bag are too heavy/too high. How much do the tent and bag weigh? My load is usually about 35 pounds and includes the same stuff you have plus more toiletries, towel, cooking equipment, food, more clothes, distributed among the rear bags, rear rack, front bags and handlebar bag. HB bag should be LESS than 5 pounds. The combo of a high rear load and a heavy handlebar bag is a great way to get bad handling.
I wouldn't go for the trailer, personally, I don't like the way they handle.
The frame may not be stiff enough. The rack is fine, that's a heavy duty stiff rack (same as I use).
Another thought - you don't have to pack the tent in it's original bag, you can take it out and spread it out in your panniers. The tent bag itself may be significantly heavy, and that doesn't contribute anything useful to your tour. Trash Compactor bags are durable, waterproof and cheap.
I also agree with the folks who say you need to practice with your loaded bike. DO take your handling concerns seriously, but give yourself some time to get used to it - a couple of hours would make sense to me. If you feel you can't control the bike safely, don't keep riding, but there is definitely a different feel to it, so you'll need to get used to it. Pedal smoothly and grip the bars loosely.
REI-Outlet is a great source of cheap camping gear, so is craigslist, and even better call all your outdoorsey friends and see if you can borrow something for your shakedown tours.
Good luck, and don't give up!
I wouldn't go for the trailer, personally, I don't like the way they handle.
The frame may not be stiff enough. The rack is fine, that's a heavy duty stiff rack (same as I use).
Another thought - you don't have to pack the tent in it's original bag, you can take it out and spread it out in your panniers. The tent bag itself may be significantly heavy, and that doesn't contribute anything useful to your tour. Trash Compactor bags are durable, waterproof and cheap.
I also agree with the folks who say you need to practice with your loaded bike. DO take your handling concerns seriously, but give yourself some time to get used to it - a couple of hours would make sense to me. If you feel you can't control the bike safely, don't keep riding, but there is definitely a different feel to it, so you'll need to get used to it. Pedal smoothly and grip the bars loosely.
REI-Outlet is a great source of cheap camping gear, so is craigslist, and even better call all your outdoorsey friends and see if you can borrow something for your shakedown tours.
Good luck, and don't give up!
05-12-12, 08:31 AM
#48
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I have never done a loaded tour, although I typically ride several supported tours every year. This year I decided I wanted to try some loaded trips, and this weekend was supposed to be the maiden voyage -- 160 miles over two days from Raleigh to the NC coast. The weather was ideal -- sunny and mild with favorable winds.
So I finally got my Bob Jackson World Tour back from the bike shop, where it was being rebuilt for loaded touring. I added a Sugino triple crank, a Shimano long-cage mtn bike derailleur and 12-32 cassette. Put the old Brooks B17 saddle back on it, as well as a Tubus Cargo rear rack and Nitto M12 front rack. I tried to keep my load fairly light, and ended up with about 40 lbs of gear including the Ortlieb panniers in back and a Rivendell Lil' Loafer bag on the front rack. Most of the weight was in the back, but I tried to put some heavier small items (eg, bike tools, wallet, flashlight, etc.) in the front bag to better distribute the weight.
However, when I headed down the driveway and up the street, it soon became apparent that something was wrong. The whole bike was handling very strange, with the fork very wobbly and the entire frame feeling like it was flexing. It felt like the frame was made of rubber. There was no way I could ride it like that, it just felt unsafe. Needless to say, I called off the trip for now.
What could have caused the flexing/wobbling problems? The frame is Bob Jackson's touring frame made of Reynolds 631 with stouter tubing designed for touring. The load I was carrying certainly shouldn't have been too much -- after all there are plenty of cyclists who weigh as much as the total weight of me, the bike and the load on it (about 236 lbs loaded). In fact, I have lost about 32 lbs over the past year, so the total weight of my bike with the load was not much different than the total weight would have been a year ago with my typical commuting load. The bike never handled like this before.
Here are some photos of the bike as built and loaded up for the trip. It has 36H Velocity Dyad/Ultegra wheels with 28 mm Conti GP 4 Season tires.
So I finally got my Bob Jackson World Tour back from the bike shop, where it was being rebuilt for loaded touring. I added a Sugino triple crank, a Shimano long-cage mtn bike derailleur and 12-32 cassette. Put the old Brooks B17 saddle back on it, as well as a Tubus Cargo rear rack and Nitto M12 front rack. I tried to keep my load fairly light, and ended up with about 40 lbs of gear including the Ortlieb panniers in back and a Rivendell Lil' Loafer bag on the front rack. Most of the weight was in the back, but I tried to put some heavier small items (eg, bike tools, wallet, flashlight, etc.) in the front bag to better distribute the weight.
However, when I headed down the driveway and up the street, it soon became apparent that something was wrong. The whole bike was handling very strange, with the fork very wobbly and the entire frame feeling like it was flexing. It felt like the frame was made of rubber. There was no way I could ride it like that, it just felt unsafe. Needless to say, I called off the trip for now.
What could have caused the flexing/wobbling problems? The frame is Bob Jackson's touring frame made of Reynolds 631 with stouter tubing designed for touring. The load I was carrying certainly shouldn't have been too much -- after all there are plenty of cyclists who weigh as much as the total weight of me, the bike and the load on it (about 236 lbs loaded). In fact, I have lost about 32 lbs over the past year, so the total weight of my bike with the load was not much different than the total weight would have been a year ago with my typical commuting load. The bike never handled like this before.
Here are some photos of the bike as built and loaded up for the trip. It has 36H Velocity Dyad/Ultegra wheels with 28 mm Conti GP 4 Season tires.
How to solve this? It's very easy and it had been practised by many tourers in the early 80s and 90s by placing 60% of the load on the front and 40% of the load to the rear. Some people like the soft steel ride (just like my former Miyata 1000GT), but you can't have both a soft ride and a really stiff frame at the same time.
Last edited by pacificcyclist; 05-12-12 at 08:36 AM.
05-12-12, 08:40 AM
#49
Galveston County Texas
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Unfortunately tarwheel, based on Bob Jackson touring specs on the older 531ST, the oversized top tube is only 1" whereas the non ST version is 0.8". 1" is a classic tubing of the 1990s design and if the 631 OS is any similar to that, then that is what is happening here. You need an oversized top tube of at least 1 1/8" or 1 1/4" is better on some modern heavier steel frames to reduce the fish tailing effect you are experiencing by increasing the torsional rigidity to resist frame twisting by heavy rear panniers. The now deceased Cannondale T series touring has the BEST torsional rigidity and is as stiff as it gets due to the oversized aluminum top and downtubes and what made it stiff made the ride a bit stiffer, though you can compensate this by running fatter tires than the 28mm contis. I used to ride a clone of the Cannondale and loved it as the answer to my problems with my older Miyata 1000GT. Unfortunately due to the success of the steel for real movement, the remaining AL touring bikes are pretty much killed off and now we're back to steel again.
How to solve this? It's very easy and it had been practised by many tourers in the early 80s and 90s by placing 60% of the load on the front and 40% of the load to the rear. Some people like the soft steel ride (just like my former Miyata 1000GT), but you can't have both a soft ride and a really stiff frame at the same time.
How to solve this? It's very easy and it had been practised by many tourers in the early 80s and 90s by placing 60% of the load on the front and 40% of the load to the rear. Some people like the soft steel ride (just like my former Miyata 1000GT), but you can't have both a soft ride and a really stiff frame at the same time.
So stable I can ride it no hands like this.
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Fred "The Real Fred"
Fred "The Real Fred"
05-12-12, 08:43 AM
#50
Senior Member
If you aren't too tall for it the Eureka Spitfire 1 tent is a great tent and can be found for under $100 new. It weighs in at about 2 pounds 9 ounces if you replace the stakes with lighter ones.