Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29
  1. #1
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    A land that time forgot
    My Bikes
    the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
    Posts
    18,016
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    How ultralite to ultralite pack - tradeoffs

    I was just sorting out ultralight gear for the summer season.

    Boy, it seems like choosing how ultralite to ultralite involves significant volume considerations that come into play when choosing "how ultralite to ultralite" it.

    The comparison between ultralight kits was highlighted when I looked at several of my shelter options-

    an UL tent - 1kg

    an UL tent/tarp combo - most roomy and airy, very close to the same weight, 1 kg.

    or a superultralite -SUL - option - a 5x8 tarp and a mosquito headnet - 9 oz.

    Three different tents, three different volumes of gear to pack. With high mosquito season soon here, one of the two heavier options is more appealing. The downside is they compress considerably larger, about three times the volume the SUL tarp. Going with saddlebag like a medium sized Carradice seems to necessitate carrying the shelter outside the bag unless packing super ultralite.



    Sometimes you want to bring spare shoes like crocs or rollable shoes for down time off the bike. A second pair of bike shorts are almost a necessity on longer trips, unless you decide to ride in non bike shorts while riding on wash days. A rainjacket is an absolute must unless are out on a short trip with no chance of precip, or don't mind getting wet if it begins to pour.

    Warm clothes for nightime, hat, windshirt, second pair of socks..... it all adds up in volume.

    UL packing is a real study in reductionism and savvy packing.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Chapala, Mexico
    My Bikes
    Habanero Titanium
    Posts
    274
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I hope this doesnt hijack your thread, but you sure hit a nerve with me. Id love to see the UL packing lists from those whove actually done it. Im prepping for a trip in January and Im really cutting down, but any suggestions would be much appreciated (or points to other links, etc). Im trying to keep it down to rear panniers and a rack pack since Im switching from my beloved trailer (doesnt work well with a ti bike).

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    8,395
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dengidog View Post
    Im switching from my beloved trailer (doesnt work well with a ti bike).
    Why?

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    My Bikes
    Tout Terrain Rohloff/Gates Metropolitan; Felt Footprint
    Posts
    47
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Less Encumbered Touring is a pretty good resource for that.

  5. #5
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    6,274
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you're taking one pair of bike shorts on tour, I'd say that's too ultralight.

    IMO there's little need to be so fanatical with a bicycle, at least for on-road tours. You aren't mountaineering, where a few ounces really can make a difference; or hiking, where you're carrying everything on your back. Ideally almost everything will be on the bike, and easy to lug around.

    An extra 5 pounds on the bike might get you to your campsite 15 minutes later -- maybe 30 if you are climbing . There will be a big aero difference between the 20 pound kit and 50 pound kit. 15 pounds to 20 pounds? Not so much, especially at touring speeds. I doubt you could even tell the difference between a 15 and 20 pound load in a blind test.

    Looking at our good friend Kreuzotter: 160 pound rider, bicycle weight 50 lbs (25 pounds bike, 25 pounds gear), 4% grade for 40 miles = 5h 15m. Subtract 5 pounds, and you claw back a grand total of 4 minutes. If you have 2 miles on a 7% grade, 5 extra pounds will cost you a whopping 30 seconds, out of 24 minutes. I wouldn't say the calculator is perfect, but even if it's off by an order of magnitude, you'd be looking at 30 minutes on a day of tough climbing.

    So, I say leave the lawn chair at home, but bring the sandals and the second pair of shorts.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Above ground, Walnut Creek, Ca
    My Bikes
    7 single speed road
    Posts
    3,579
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i say no extra shorts and no extra shoes. i only wear one pair of both at a time and will ALWAYS be carrying something i can't use. this mind-set is the essence of ultralight packing.

  7. #7
    Senior Member staehpj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Parkville, Md
    Posts
    7,468
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    If you're taking one pair of bike shorts on tour, I'd say that's too ultralight.
    I took one pair of bike shorts on my February ride from San Diego to Sarasota and never wished for a second pair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    15 pounds to 20 pounds? Not so much, especially at touring speeds.
    As someone who has done two consecutive tours at approximately those two weights, I disagree. There are a few reasons why that difference may be more significant than it initially appears. On those two rides the points that made the difference for me were:
    1. The gap between those two gear weights is about the point where I go to a lighter more sporty bike. So I wind up with lighter frame, components, wheels, and tires. It is also the point where I go from panniers to stuff sacks. To me that all matters in how much I enjoy the ride.
    2. If riding with someone else small differences can matter more when you are near your comfort limit wrt pace.
    3. Regardless of pace, riding a lighter sportier bike is just more fun.
    4. It is a little easier climbing and accelerating. Maybe only a little, but enough to matter to at least some of us.

    Those differences may or may not make any difference in how many days the ride takes. They do make a difference in how the ride feels, and based on two tours at the two weights, at least I think so.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,407
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I look at the gear weight thing differently.

    - 5 pounds is not going to make me want to take a sportier bike. There is someone out there riding your sportier bike, who probably weighs 50 pounds more than you do, and certainly five. 5 pounds would not determine the bike for me.

    - I would not want to ride the sportier bike if that means turning in a touring bike for a racing bike. Racing bikes are just lame, and particularly so for non-racing use. I would tailor my touring bike as closely as custom tubing allows, but again, not a five pound thing. Long tours call for GT cars, not Ferraris .

    I think the big deal about lighter weigh is for people of smaller stature or capabilities, Kids, oldster type people, moderate injuries, etc...

    The other thing is that ultralite gear is not less comfortable gear, in many cases it is more comfortable. The reason for this is that the people who pursue it know what they are doing, have pared their gear down to real needs, have deployed better materials. The 900 people per week who drink the Kool-aid and join hammock forums, are at least convinced the experience of sleeping in a hammock is going to be better for them, if nothing else they feel better about their choice.

    Once you commit to ultralite gear for some part of your outside activities, you either have to buy whole new sets of gear just so you can store it and carry heavier gear on some trips, doesn't make much sense. Or you use essentially the same gear for all your uses. Once you toss a 16 ounce stove for a cool Minibulldesign stove at 1.5 ounces, machined aluminum, less than half the price, why would one go back? Often when bike touring I don't carry a stove at all because I can credit card tour at least the food. I cut that weight without suffering for it.
    Last edited by MassiveD; 05-15-12 at 10:49 AM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,407
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    To the OP. Yeah, fun times. My own experience with tarps was that the headnet sytems are crazy. They normally assume you will stay buttoned down in your sleeping back, but around here bugs a hot nights go together. also saving weight on bug netting is not a high yield activity. Ray Jardine who has been at this longer than most was an advocate of that nonsense. I always assumed he was just camping in a different setting. And lo, he got lime disease on the AT. Now he sleeps in a super max of netting. That said, I still think a tarp is worth another look. In his Tarp book he makes a convincing case for the idea that a tarp is superior to a tent. For like 30 years I have wanted well ventilated single wall tents, and now that they are all over the market, I am leaning to the tarp.

  10. #10
    Real Men Ride Ordinaries fuzz2050's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    3,634
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MassiveD View Post
    To the OP. Yeah, fun times. My own experience with tarps was that the headnet sytems are crazy. They normally assume you will stay buttoned down in your sleeping back, but around here bugs a hot nights go together. also saving weight on bug netting is not a high yield activity. Ray Jardine who has been at this longer than most was an advocate of that nonsense. I always assumed he was just camping in a different setting. And lo, he got lime disease on the AT. Now he sleeps in a super max of netting. That said, I still think a tarp is worth another look. In his Tarp book he makes a convincing case for the idea that a tarp is superior to a tent. For like 30 years I have wanted well ventilated single wall tents, and now that they are all over the market, I am leaning to the tarp.
    While I'm not really disagreeing; anyone who sleeps where there are lots of bugs would really suffer with just a head net, Jardine most likely didn't get lyme from that. Being a tick carried disease, it was probably the thousands of miles of hiking that did him in.

  11. #11
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Victoria, BC
    My Bikes
    Surly LHT, Surly Big Dummy, Surly 1x1, Surly Pugsley, Bike Friday Tikit x 3, Bike Friday NWT, Bow Cycle 24, Santa Cruz Nomad
    Posts
    5,170
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    I was just sorting out ultralight gear for the summer season.

    Boy, it seems like choosing how ultralite to ultralite involves significant volume considerations that come into play when choosing "how ultralite to ultralite" it.


    This is my light weight bikepacking setup. It's far from the point where it is at its most ultra.

    I have a selection of gear in my garage to choose from and I just do the best with what I have. I would like a smaller lighter tent for example, but I can't really justify it when my existing one is pretty small and pretty light. Of course I know that the more I use my current tent the sooner I'll wear it out and have a reason to buy a new one....

    What works for me is having a limited amount of bag space to fit things into. That way I can't overpack and it forces me to be ruthless about what I take on a ride. Each ride I get a bit better at packing efficiently and taking a more optimized selection of gear.

    When the time comes to buy a new sleeping pad for example I'll have a really good idea what practical difference the options I am looking at. Having used my current one a ton and knowing exactly what sort of space I have to put it into.

    I don't spend a ton of time thinking about the gear end of things. I spend more time planning rides and actually riding. I'll throw my gear together the night before a trip adjusting based on the last trip's experience.

    As a rule of thumb I don't try and improve areas that didn't matter to me last trip. I'm not out to have the absolute lightest/most minimal touring setup. I'm out to have fun on my bike. So I just iteratively work on improving areas that I wasn't 100% satisfied with on previous trips.

    For example I had 1 extra water bottle that I really didn't need last trip and I wished I had a running T-shirt when the day turned hotter than expected. So I'll replace the water bottle with a t-shirt for my next trip in the same part of Vancouver Island. I also found my 3 season sleeping bag wasn't needed so I'll be switching to my summer bag. That will lighten my load and make me more comfortable.

    Of course come the fall my priorities will shift back towards warmth and rain protection.

    I could spend energy on ultra-fying my tools/spares, but they really didn't come up on my radar the last few rides so I'll save that effort for the future.

    I guess if I was in the position of buying a whole new touring setup from scratch it would be quite a job. Tackling it a couple items at a time it's not a big deal.
    safe riding - Vik
    VikApproved

  12. #12
    Garlic
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Golden, CO
    My Bikes
    Old REI touring bike
    Posts
    483
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dengidog View Post
    ...Id love to see the UL packing lists from those whove actually done it. Im prepping for a trip in January and Im really cutting down, but any suggestions would be much appreciated (or points to other links, etc). Im trying to keep it down to rear panniers and a rack pack since Im switching from my beloved trailer (doesnt work well with a ti bike).
    Here's mine; http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/p...id=274768&v=14. I've pared down from five bike packs and a towering load on top to two packs and just a sleeping pad on top. My load is 17 pounds on a 27 pound bike.

    A lot of UL backpacking got me there. My hiking load is less than 10 pounds. I followed the Ray (Jardine) Way for a while, but found I don't always agree with his methods (corn pasta, anyone?) and have had different experiences with different types of equipment. I like down, for instance, and Ray does not. The point is we all need to develop our own packing list and others' don't mean much other than general ideas. Don't be afraid to disagree with a very experienced cyclist--his or her way may not be your way.

    For shelter, I'm a diehard fan of the Tarptent Contrail. It's incredibly reliable and sturdy and weighs less than a kg. I've never used a ground cloth with it, so I don't have that weight penalty you'd have with a tarp.

    I agree it may not make as much sense to lighten a bicycle load as it does for a hiking load. I can really tell when I remove a liter of water from my backpack, for instance, but it doesn't make as much immediately discernible difference on the bike. But considering what some cyclists pay to shave grams, there must be something to it other than just looking cool. I agree with the comment above that at the end of a long day, the weight will make a difference, if just in incremental steps for every little hill and every time you accelerate (essentially every time you put force on a pedal).

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,407
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    UL packing lists are tough since they are so individual, when you go down that route you find a huge degree more personalization. There is a perceived sense of suffering, so what compromises a person is willing to make are personal. The cutting the handle off a toothbrush thing, I can't get excited about the suffering or the weight savings.

    The way I pack is:

    - my camping gear is my base weight pack gear, which is around 8 pounds. That is quilt, short pad, usually no-stove, tarp, or hammock or ultralite tent, depending on terrain. Large cup and spoon. A single flashlight, or more if I like. I sometimes just use the bike light. Most of the info for thins developed from Jardine's book, and gear since '05. I always had ultralite gear but that is my recent influence. If you search base weight pack, and youtube it, you will find tons of stuff.

    - Clothes are mostly everyda type clothes, I don't use cycling clothes. I keep the list short, but I don't really realize a lot of gains here. I don't really care, but I think extreme technical clothing is a little silly in everyday life. I'm not really sure why the fact I am riding a bike gives me the right to dress like a clown. It's a free world, but there are all kinds of people with jobs or roles more extreme than riding a bike, and they don't dress like freaks.

    - Then I have supplies for the bike, all my tools pretty much fit in the palm of my hand. I had the bike set-up for minimal tools, everything is single tool, allen wrench adjustable, pretty much. This is just a constant process of making choices for the bike that are as simple and rugged as possible, while fun to use and look at.

    So really, only the camping part of my list is ultralite. I could go further with it, but I like the stuff I currently have, so for now I am OK with it. I could probably save an easy 10 pounds though if I dropped the rack and pannier system as that is the single most wasteful part of the bike. I will probably do it, it makes so much sense.

  14. #14
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Victoria, BC
    My Bikes
    Surly LHT, Surly Big Dummy, Surly 1x1, Surly Pugsley, Bike Friday Tikit x 3, Bike Friday NWT, Bow Cycle 24, Santa Cruz Nomad
    Posts
    5,170
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by andrewclaus View Post
    But considering what some cyclists pay to shave grams, there must be something to it other than just looking cool.
    Shaving grams is all about cool factor. All the performance testing results point to no important difference between bikes that weigh a few pounds apart for normal bike missions. If you are riding fast enough aerodynamics is more important and rolling resistance of your tires matters a ton at slower speeds. People don't focus on the later simply because it's not cool and it's not something you can easily gloat about at the Java Shack to your friends - unlike say how many grams you saved by using the same cut down toothbrush for your teeth and cleaning your chain.

    If you can reduce from a 50lbs touring load to a 20lbs touring load you'll notice a difference. Taking a 27lbs bike and 17lbs of gear down 1lbs won't make any difference at all...well except it sounds cooler when you talk about it...

    Now of course if you can cut 1lb from your shelter and 1lb from your sleeping bag and 4lb from your panniers you start to get somewhere. However, for most people you can do that cycle a couple times and you are down to some pretty lightweight gear. If you are spending effort trying to cut 1/2lb off your overall bike touring setup weight I'd say you are wasting your time.

    One thing that gets overlooked when talking about lightweight touring is that beyond carry less weight you have fewer items with you and I think that goes a long way to freeing up your mind to enjoy the ride. I guess the more accurate terminology to describe the touring I am doing at the moment isn't ultralight as much as it's minimalist touring or simplified touring.

    Personally I have no ideal what my bike and gear weighs. I don't really care in an absolute sense. Sure I'll grab the lighter/more compact choices from the stuff in my garage if I have options, but the goal isn't to have the lightest weight setup once I've got to a certain point. The goal is to carry less gear and remain comfortable on the trip.
    Last edited by vik; 05-15-12 at 12:28 PM.
    safe riding - Vik
    VikApproved

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,407
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    [QUOTE=vik;14226363]

    Nice set-up, but that is, as you know a bikepacking set-up, which is really a step in the wrong direction in at least one way. The in-frame pack is an example of a large surface area bag that has a low capacity. Necessary evil for suspension bikes and recumbents. The rack and bag system is still a pretty good system, but it has become sidelined by "needs" like waterproof panniers, expedition weight racks, quick detach systems, multiple pockets and closure systems, internal frames, etc...

    I can't tell much about that bag from the pic, but it looks non-welded seam waterproof, non quick detach, non-internal frame, non-over-the-top-with pockets. I doubt it would be cool if it were a pannier. And that is the problem, we have an attachment to bag gear that is so over-engineered for most uses it weighs more than the load. But if the gear is simplified to utility levels it is not salable. The only way is to invent a new purchasing cult, like ultralite backpacking, hammocks, or bikepacking, and for a while the cool factor overwhelms the excess engineering.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,407
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vik View Post
    Shaving grams is all about cool factor. All the performance testing results point to no important difference between bikes that weigh a few pounds apart for normal bike missions. The goal is to carry less gear and remain comfortable on the trip.
    +1.

    On the other hand the fact there are more important sources of efficiency only matters if the are mutually exclusive.

    Also, 5 pounds can mater a lot when you end up having to clean and jerk your rig over a concrete divider, particularly if you weigh 100 pounds to start.

    And cycling is a great alternative for people with limitations... Get back to me when you are 60.

    If you are riding fast enough aerodynamics is more important and rolling resistance of your tires matters a ton at slower speeds.
    Another big +1. Does this mean the 4" tires no longer roll just as nicely as the 1.5" ones?

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    71
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I drank the koolaid to

  18. #18
    <riding now> BigAura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Chapin, SC
    My Bikes
    surly LHT, surly CC, trek 5000, paris sport fixie (my 1970 bike...repurposed
    Posts
    1,295
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Bicycles have gears which allow you to trade off muscle energy over time. When you're touring with an extra 10 pounds most people just gear down and ride a little longer day. At the end of the day they eat a little more food too.

    When backpacking with an extra 5 pounds you might slow down, or take more breaks, but you're body is directly taking the full brunt of the weight for the entire time. In addition when carrying weight up hill you get nothing back going downhill as you do on a bicycle.

    Weight always matters in touring and backpacking but trying to equate the two is a mistake in my opinion.

  19. #19
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    6,274
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
    As someone who has done two consecutive tours at approximately those two weights, I disagree....
    I'm basing my opinion on several tours with varying amounts of gear, at varying levels of fitness, and all sorts of rides with various bikes and various weights.

    It's also based on the idea that expectations have a significant impact on our subjective experiences. If you think adding an extra 5 pounds is going to make a huge difference, then you're going to pay attention to every minor detail that supports this expectation, and ignore those that don't.

    And, it's based on the fact that physics is often counter-intuitive. When we carry an extra 5 pounds on our backs, of course we notice it, and of course it slows us down. But the reality is that weight just is not that important when it's a bicycle instead of a backpack.


    Quote Originally Posted by staehpj1
    The gap between those two gear weights is about the point where I go to a lighter more sporty bike....
    That's your choice, but not necessarily the case for everyone.

    It isn't hard to imagine fitting an extra pair of shorts and a pair of Crocs into your bags. It's far from impossible to use slightly more capacious bags, rather than switch to panniers at the drop (or addition...) of a hat.

    I also don't tour on my racing bike, even for overnight credit-card tours. Unlike you, I don't think of my cross bike (set up for touring) as "less fun" than my race bike. Both work well for me, which is one of the reasons why I have more than one bike.


    Quote Originally Posted by staehpj1
    If riding with someone else small differences can matter more when you are near your comfort limit wrt pace.
    Y'know, I gotta say my attitude towards this is the same as in a club ride: If you're off the back, good luck blaming it on your bike weighing 3 pounds more than someone else's.


    Another way to look at it is: When you want to take your Crocs, or a tent that will protect you better from mosquitos than a tarp, what are you getting in exchange for giving up that comfort? Your bike won't be more comfortable, the hills will be just as hard, and you won't get to camp appreciably faster. So what's the point of getting so ultra-light that you're sacrificing fairly basic levels of comfort?

    Again, I'm not suggesting there is no virtue to going light, only that at a certain point, it's counter-productive.

  20. #20
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Victoria, BC
    My Bikes
    Surly LHT, Surly Big Dummy, Surly 1x1, Surly Pugsley, Bike Friday Tikit x 3, Bike Friday NWT, Bow Cycle 24, Santa Cruz Nomad
    Posts
    5,170
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MassiveD View Post
    On the other hand the fact there are more important sources of efficiency only matters if the are mutually exclusive.

    Also, 5 pounds can mater a lot when you end up having to clean and jerk your rig over a concrete divider, particularly if you weigh 100 pounds to start.

    And cycling is a great alternative for people with limitations... Get back to me when you are 60.

    Another big +1. Does this mean the 4" tires no longer roll just as nicely as the 1.5" ones?
    5lbs is a weight savings worth pursuing. Spending a lot of time on various upgrades to save 1lb isn't in my opinion. But, as you suggest you can pack more optimized gear that will work better for you that also happens to be a bit lighter.

    The size of the tire isn't the critical factor in how well they roll....the construction is more important - although for two tires with the same construction the wider one will roll with less resistance over a rough surface. The rougher the surface the more the differential.

    My skinny MTB tires are 2.4" wide and my Pugsley is setup with aggressive 4" knobbies at the moment. Those knobbies are not good for touring, but great for technical MTBing. Surly has smoother 4" tires that work well for touring rough roads/trails. I wouldn't use my Pugsley for an all paved road tour nor would I do that on my 29er MTB. Not the right tool for the job.
    safe riding - Vik
    VikApproved

  21. #21
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Victoria, BC
    My Bikes
    Surly LHT, Surly Big Dummy, Surly 1x1, Surly Pugsley, Bike Friday Tikit x 3, Bike Friday NWT, Bow Cycle 24, Santa Cruz Nomad
    Posts
    5,170
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MassiveD View Post
    Nice set-up, but that is, as you know a bikepacking set-up, which is really a step in the wrong direction in at least one way. But if the gear is simplified to utility levels it is not salable. The only way is to invent a new purchasing cult, like ultralite backpacking, hammocks, or bikepacking, and for a while the cool factor overwhelms the excess engineering.


    If you are riding offroad/rough roads this soft bag setup is superior to panniers and racks. I've tried both and own both. Panniers are great for smooth surfaces and when you don't have to hike-a-bike much. You can see my previous dirt touring setup above. It worked, but I had to ride my bike to allow the racks and panniers to survive.

    With the white bikepacking setup above I can ride technical singletrack without having to baby my gear which means I am smiling more as I ride and exploring with more freedom. I can also push the bike easily which is a necessary evil sometimes. All three of those bags weigh less than 2 Ortliebs rear panniers.

    The interest in bikepacking isn't going anywhere. Largely because it combines mountain biking and touring in a way that's really fun. OTOH I think there is a limited number of people that want to tour dirt roads and trails with this sort of setup. It's probably at or near it's peak as a niche type of touring. That's fine as there is a good selection of equipment to choose from and I like not running into other cyclists when I am riding.

    Quote Originally Posted by MassiveD View Post
    The in-frame pack is an example of a large surface area bag that has a low capacity. Necessary evil for suspension bikes and recumbents.
    There is no need for me to use a frame bag on the 29er MTB shown in my post above. I can use a rear and front OMM racks without any issues and Ortlieb panniers. I chose the frame bag because it's more functional for the touring that bike sees. It also carries the weight centrally to minimize the effect on how the bike handles.
    safe riding - Vik
    VikApproved

  22. #22
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    A land that time forgot
    My Bikes
    the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
    Posts
    18,016
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm trying to avoid packing with a gigantic stuff sack strapped to the handlebars like the photo of vik's mountain bike.

    I'm not spending any money on stuff, just trying to decide on the right UL shelter out of the tubs in the basement!


    Even a sil nylon Hennessy hammock is a lot of shelter. it packs up huge.

    where's the bug free tent that packs up as small as an orange?

    The back roads around here are quite sandy, very very sandy and a slog on any bike. I'm trying for a very refined and minimal paved road kit. Trouble is, there's still a bare minimum of gear that needs to be packed to still be self-contained and comfortable.

    The bike in front of the Golden gate bridge is about as little of a load I've been able to pack; and the touring rig with the stuff sacks is quite UL.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Bekologist; 05-15-12 at 09:00 PM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    71
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You need Nun's bike kit .

  24. #24
    Senior Member Ridefreemc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Western Florida
    My Bikes
    2013 Velo Orange Campeur, 2011 Mezzo D9, 2004 Marin Mount Vision Pro
    Posts
    967
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vik View Post
    One thing that gets overlooked when talking about lightweight touring is that beyond carry less weight you have fewer items with you and I think that goes a long way to freeing up your mind to enjoy the ride. I guess the more accurate terminology to describe the touring I am doing at the moment isn't ultralight as much as it's minimalist touring or simplified touring.

    The goal is to carry less gear and remain comfortable on the trip.
    I think this sums it up for the most part for me. Others are moving towards UL touring to save a pound or two and others are saying it doesn't matter because the bike is carrying the weight, etc. However, there is more to bike riding than riding the bike. You've got to heft it around at various stops, maybe carry it up a hill or stairs, or simply to lean it against a wall. The lighter the more pleasant - not by much but still easier.

    I still think the simplicity is the best though - thanks for pointing that out vik
    On the move!
    2013 Velo Orange Campeur, 2012 Mezzo D9, 2004 Marin Mount Vision Pro

  25. #25
    Senior Member staehpj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Parkville, Md
    Posts
    7,468
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    Another way to look at it is: When you want to take your Crocs, or a tent that will protect you better from mosquitos than a tarp, what are you getting in exchange for giving up that comfort? Your bike won't be more comfortable, the hills will be just as hard, and you won't get to camp appreciably faster. So what's the point of getting so ultra-light that you're sacrificing fairly basic levels of comfort?
    OK, but I have never sacrificed "fairly basic levels of comfort". I have never trimmed down the stuff that I need. I got to sub 40 pounds of gear and bike weight by trimming things that I didn't use anyway and taking doing things in more efficient ways.

    You mention a tent and Crocs as additions... My list for the last trip used a bivy which has mosquito netting and I took my Crocs (on that trip there was little to no hiking so I didn't miss them when they went MIA). When I take my tent it isn't a big weight hit over taking the bivy and mini tarp. That said taking more would not require more bag space, my roll down closures are rolled way down and there is a lot of room for extra volume if needed.

    My proposed list for my upcoming tour has a real tent and not Crocs, but lightweight trail runners that are good enough that I would consider them for an AT thru hike. I actually find that I am more comfortable than before I had my list dialed in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    Again, I'm not suggesting there is no virtue to going light, only that at a certain point, it's counter-productive.
    I agree completely. In backpacking the SUL guys take this to the extent where it is more of a stunt than anything. Even then, there is nothing wrong with that if they enjoy it. The thing is that as I have continually tweaked my list I have found that "certain point" to be much lighter than I would have guessed.

    To be clear...
    My list, while light (14-15 pounds of gear total bike and gear 38-40 pounds), does not have a lot of high dollar or high tech stuff and is not lacking the things I need to be comfortable. I even have extras like a 4:3 camera setup, a nice pillow, and even stuff to go hiking, even overnight or multi-day if I choose. There is no cuben fiber and not much specialty ultra light stuff on my gear list. It is just fine tuned to my needs using a mix of inexpensive gear with a few nice upgrades and even the upgrades are pretty normal stuff. The splurge items, expense wise, were a fairly nice sleeping bag (Mountain Hardware Phantom 45), an REI Ti pot, a NeoAir pad, and a recently added Exped pillow. My tent and my bivy are both inexpensive (sub hundred dollar) items. The bivy is an REI Minimalist and the tent is a Eureka Spitfire 1, neither is exactly high dollar or high tech, just basic gear.

    I am equipped well enough that I have lent out more stuff to other riders than I have borrowed, by a large margin.

    The comfort level is enough that I sometimes don't take anything extra to go car camping. It is a more comfortable list to live with than my 45 pound Trans America list was, at least for me. I enjoy the simplicity of having only the stuff I need, stuff that is tailored exactly to my normal daily routine, but with a margin of safety.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •