BigAura

I was never insinuating that your equipment was holding you back. I totally understand that each individual makes his own choice as what to carry. There is no reason for anyone to do a bicycle tour, except for personal enjoyment and satisfaction. I've seen cycle tourists on the road with over 100 pound loads, and having a grand time.

tarwheel 

Why carry an extra 5 lbs just for the unloaded panniers? I don't get it. I wouldn't even consider Arkels for that reason. My Ortlieb Rollers weigh significantly less and will hold all the gear I need. I agree with Fuzz and others that carrying excessive weight makes riding much less fun. It might be different if you were riding on flat roads, but Portland to San Fran is not exactly a flat route. If you don't care about the weight, why even ask your original question about pannier sizes?

Doug64

I agree with "different stroke for different folks" , but don't see what people carry on their bike or the weight of the bike has anything to do with their motivation, physical ability, health or how they spend time off of the bike. I'm not even sure how we got to this point in a discussion about weight, and pannier capacity.

I'm in great health considering age, make, model and mileage; and have some reasonably good touring credentials. I tend to spend a lot of time off of the bike on tours, and really "tour" rather just logging miles. However, I use the lightest equipment that will meet my needs. In the last 5 years, since I started using my present panniers, I have gone on 2 tours both exceeding 3 months with the bike packed exactly as pictured in my previous post. There was always a little extra room for food, a new book or..... Approaching gear selection from a mountaineering background, our gear is carefully selected for durability and weight. For me panniers that comprise 30% of my total load is not acceptable. I still cringe now when my present panniers are about 18% of the load, but it is always a compromise between capacity, durability and cost.

staehpj1

Personally I found it liberating to carry closer to only what I need. If I only carried what I absolutely need my total gear load would be about 8 pounds including bags. I like some extras like a nice camera, a pillow, and a few other things so I carry more like 12-14 pounds (including on longish tours). I like the simplicity of a minimal finely tuned gear list.

Others choose to carry more and that is fine, but I have to say that I have a hard time imagining anyone needing the GT54s unless packing heavily for two like maybe on a tandem. That said we all get to choose what we carry and if what you carry works for you that is great.

Carbonfiberboy 

Only one set of these left:
https://www.amazon.com/Pacific-Outdoo.../dp/B004JKGNAI
POE is out of business. Great panniers though, very light, waterproof, and tough. I'm lucky to have a set. Both good capacity and light.

goalieMN

I got a set of the black and gray rear panniers with the outside pocket and the flap-top for about 100 bucks shipped last year. I've loved them so far, and they seem very well made. I especially like how the panniers fit "both" sized of rack tubing without buying anything extra.

I didn't know they went out of business.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yeah, bummer. Some weird trip with a failed employee acquisition. This company:
https://hyaliteequipment.com/
was apparently formed by the ex-employees, but doesn't seem to be producing much yet, perhaps because they don't own the right to do so.

fuzz2050

So, those are just hypothetical products? Shame, they look pretty cool. If you try and look up the pannier mounting hardware, you get redirected to a POE instruction manual.

goalieMN

That super rear bike pannier is what I got for 104 bucks shipped. They are sweet. Best of both worlds in that you get waterproof roll-top bags with some pockets on the outside and a mesh bag that you can let hang outside while riding for stuff to dry instead of putting wet stuff into the roll-top.

They have held up well, and the pockets even have decent waterproof zippers that held up in some serious storms a few weeks ago here in Minnesota.

burbankbiker

I've been checking out the Ortlieb Bike-Tourer bags too. They seem to be a nice mid-point between the ergonomics of the Arkel bags which interest me, but mixed with the more minimalist Ortlieb design and water-proof feature. Does anyone know about these bags and have experience with them?

Bike Hermit

Then, cut it in half. For this tour you will always be near a store and/or restaurants. And I agree with the comments that what you carry for two weeks will be about the same as for two months. (unless you are in a very remote area)

bmike

big fan of going lite. this is my paved and dirt road setup (evolved quite a bit from here)


IMG_9474 by mbeganyi, on Flickr

add in a new small frame bag. minus one water bottle on the frame. small pack on the back for personal stuff and to 'camel up' when doing a long stretch or with food / water before camp. road, dirt road, gravel, trail.

here's my rough stuff touring setup (again, evolved a bit more, see second photo and imagine the bar harness and the seatbag attached):


Salsa Fargo by mbeganyi, on Flickr


fargo, dry fit of some bags by mbeganyi, on Flickr



more options and ideas out there than the typical touring panniers. including a large carradice and h-bar bag, homemade stuff, etc.


that all said, the ortlieb stuff is well made. have some in the family that the wife uses. just remember if you have space, you are likely to fill it. and there is no shame in sending stuff home during the first few days of a tour...

Carbonfiberboy 

Another chapter in the POE saga: right now, www.theclymb.com (free registration required) is having a 3 day sale on those LTW panniers under the name of Hyalite Equipment, along with a whole lot of pads and other stuff. ~$!00 for a pair of 2700 cu. in. very nice panniers, 51 oz. the pair.

Doug64

I am exceptionally pleased with Ortlieb products. I have the Classic Rollers, and my wife uses the Packer Plus series. We also have Orlieb Rack Packs and bar bags. They are well designed, durable, and waterproof. The lack of external pockets is not an issue. My packing list is so nailed down that I know what and where everything is in my panniers. If I started now it would only take me an hour to pack everything needed for an extended tour. I have used mine for close to 10,000 miles of touring since I purchased them 5 years ago, and have not had any problems. They have been through several crashes, checked numerous times on airlines, thrown into bus cargo bays, into the backs of pickups, dragged off by raccoons, and received a lot of other abuses. They are still in great shape. Between my wife and I, we have owned 5 different sets of panniers (4 brands) over the last 30 years. I have also had a chance to try out other panniers in the past. The Ortieb panniers are the best I have used (I have not used Arkel).

Wayne at the Touring Store has a good selection of Ortlieb products, competitive prices and excellent customer service. https://www.thetouringstore.com/

The Classic rollers provide me with enough room to carry everything needed for an extended trip with a little room to spare. Discipline while packing dictates how much goes into a pannier, not capacity. My wife swears by the closure setup on the Packer Plus, but that is just personal preference.

Just take a hose and squirt them off.


The kind of day when you appreciate waterproof gear.


This damage to my front pannier was caused by a relatively major crash. While it does not look good, it is mostly cosmetic, and they are still waterproof. There was no need to try to "fix" the abrasion. If this was codura nylon, it would have been a lot more serious.

burbankbiker

Just posting a follow up to this thread. I've got my racks and panniers now and by this weekend I'll be taking my new touring bike out for its maiden voyage.

I ended up going with the Ortlieb Bikepacker Plus and Front-roller plus as my panniers. I spoke with Wayne at TheTouringStore.com and actually I was lucky enough to be passing through Colorado on a business trip this week and I could stop by his office and really check out my options in person and with his help. I can't thank him enough... he's a really nice guy and a really knowledgable guru to bounce all your noob questions off of. In the end, my fears about Ortlieb were alleviated, my incorrect assumptions about bags like Arkel or Lone Peak were corrected, and I can say I'm very happy with my choice.

My planned trip has also shifted to being more of a fully supported tour than I originally was considering so having the room in the front/rear will be well worth it. Thanks to all for the input in this thread!

Burton

Glad you got something you're happy with. I doubt very much, however, that you could possibly meet a representative of ANY company and get an unbiased review of their product or a reasonable accessment of what their competition is marketing. In the long run all these products are different from one another, but 'better' is a relative and personal decision.

Several people in this thread have posted comments about the 'excessive weight' of the Arkel GR-54's. Well - the logistics might surprise a few people. Based on weight / cu.in. , the Arkels are only marginally heavier than the Ortlieb Back-Roller Classic, and actually marginally LIGHTER than the Ortlieb Bike-Tourer. My own interest in the GT-54's was because they are physically BIGGER. Ortlieb doesn't make any panniers larger than 40 l and I have a couple items I like to travel with ocassionally that are a bit bulky and won't physically fit in an Ortlieb bag. Thats a size issue and not a brand issue.

So for anyone that doesn't always do minimalist touring, the options are to travel wirh a second set of panniers up front, a bar bag, a top rack bag - and maybe still lash some stuff on top. Or you can use fewer, larger volume bags that actually weigh less overall (for those that care). I have 4 different sets of panniers that I use myself depending on what the intent of the excursion is.

The main point is, as most have agreed on - is to have fun.

burbankbiker

Totally. Actually TheTouringStore.com sells and loves Lone Peak so I didn't mean they were talking me out of competition. What I was referring to when I said they helped clear up my incorrect assumptions about Arkel/Lone Peak I meant that I was reading about them and people were suggesting that Ortlieb were totally waterproof and the canvas ones like those were these breathable panniers where stuff would dry out and get air. But Wayne showed me how that's an exaggerated claim. The Lone Peak stuff is pretty darn water tight (thought not completely). But if you put a wet item in a Lone Peak back and bike all day, you'll still take it out wet at the end of the day - so if you're making your decision based on them being breathable and Ortlieb not being that way then it's an incorrect set of criteria for comparing.

Anyway, yeah I'm happy with my stuff and yes... onwards to the having fun part! 3 weeks to go until my trip.

balto charlie

I use Lone Peak. I found they were the best in terms of weight vs carrying capacity and were reasonably price. I now use them for daily commuting. I have used them on tours. Very dry but not deluge proof.
FWIW: I now tour ultralite and don't use panniers.....but we won't go there
Enjoy your new panniers and touring.

wideopenroad

I can relate to the concerns that the OP has. I used the big Arkel GT-54 and the GT-18s on a TransAm crossing in 2008. The volume was enormous and I ended up packing waaay too much stuff and shipping a lot of my extra gear home along the way. Then ended up carrying rocks home from Wyoming - just because I had extra room. The problem with empty Arkel bags is the straps flap around and the outside pockets sag. It my opinion its better to use smaller bags and carry extra gear on the rack with bungees and rope if necessary.

The smaller GT-18 bags are nice, and the top pouch is large enough to pack waterbottles and access them while riding. But the bags are not waterproof, even using the fussy covers, for anything more than sprinkle. Their narrow-bottom geometry is only useful for short-wheelbase bikes with heel strike problems, otherwise it the shape is not ideal for packing. Full zippers are convenient and (granted) worked without problems for me, but if the zipper ever broke it would be very difficult to use the bag (bring lots of safety pins and a sewing kit for insurance).

The bags started out red, but by the end of the tour they were really dingy brown and starting to sun fade. It didn't effect their function, but choosing black color would have keep them looking newer. They are hard to clean because of all the stiffeners and bolted-on-bits. You can't just throw them in a wash machine.

For me, simpler is better. Outside pockets are nice if they are big enough, but cause a lot of extra wind drag, and are fussy. If you ride in rain you'll have to transfer the contents into waterproof bags, so their convince is reduced. Depending on where you ride/park/camp you might have to worry about thieves opening those 'convenient' pockets too.

If I was buying touring bags again I would buy Carradice panniers instead of Arkel. Carradice bags are simpler and would actually improve with age and use rather than degrading.