azesty

Disclaimer: I have never toured with a Rolhoff and never owned one. In fact I hadn't seen one before two months ago.

Since then I have ridden for 10 days with a couple who both have Rolhoffs, and am now in a guesthouse and have talked to many Rolhoff riders, and looked closely at them fixing their bikes and talking about problems. The guesthouse, Nomad's Guesthouse, had 20 bikes here one night, 12 of them were Rolhoff bikes. Most are Europeans who are waiting around for a China visa.

I thought I might list a few things I have noticed.

1) Rolhoffs are heavy.

2) They seem to break more spokes, this might be, as one guy says, because the spoke holes in the rim need to be at a different angle than normal so you might need a Rolhoff specific hub.

3) There are a few shifting foibles, if you change up two gears and dont have a tiny pause between you may end up in 14th gear.

4) 7th gear is noisy!

Three types of setup

1) Non Rolhoff dropout frame with a little spring mounted chain tensioner, the least good method.

2) Adjustable dropouts to tighten the chain as it wears. Make sure each side has 2 bolts. Bring a spare or three.

3) Eccentric bottom bracket. Two types,

a) two screws that dig into the bottom bracket to keep it in place, not the best solution as you end up with a series of small divits in the bb that make it harder for fine adjustment. Have spare screws.

b) Split bottom bracket housing with 3 or 4 bolts to clamp it closeed. The best method. Have spare bolts.

One guy's Rolhoff, with a belt drive, died. Bits of something from inside were pushing into the casing making sharp little points. He called the bikeshop where he got his bike from, they contacted Rolhoff who sent a new one to the shop, the shop put it into a wheel and gave it to his mother. She was flying to Almaty in Kazakhstan to meet him, so he had a 500 km truck ride to get there and get a new wheel.

Would I get one for my next bike? Not sure yet, they are heavy, but there are savings on maintenance.... still thinking about it.

z

MichaelW

The weight of a Rohloff is all in the hub. On a derailleur bike it is in the chainset, shifters, mechs, chain.
Your notes on tensioning systems are spot on. My EEB uses the external bolts; the danger is that the welded-on bolt holes snap off. You also get wedge style EEB which can seize up, and more advanced self removing wedge.
Belt drives originally used an aluminium rear sprocket. The standard 3-tab fitting makes these vulnerable to snapped tabs. A stainless steel sprocket is far more reliable and durable. Carry spare belt or 2.
Rohloff have an option for converting to fixed gear using the disk bolts. This would be a sensible backup plan for any exp tourist.

jolly_ross

Rambling personal observations on Rohloffs:

A while back Mark Beaumont used a Rohloff for a successful attempt at a round the world cycling record. I would have thought it ideal, avoiding the frailty of a rear derailleur, having an undished wheel, having a stronger ss chain etc. Turns out he had many problems with spoke breakage - this may have been because the wheel builder didn't have the correct length spokes - and made them by trimming and rethreading longer ones. I think the lesson here is get the wheel really well built.

My Rohloff is on a tandem. I really like how we avoid the problem of rolling to a halt in too high a gear - I have seen this lead to minor arguments within other derailleured couples we tandem cycle with. Gear changes are in general, I think, a tiny bit easier than were the bike derailleured. The range of gears, however, is slightly narrower.

I do spend a lot of money on annual oil change kits. I could reduce this by buying rinsing and lube oil in bulk - my problem is that I like to change the oil bung every time and don't know where to get them outside of a kit.

My tandem has eccentric hubs - the manufacturer specced a minimum chain slack to reach before adjusting. I think the idea is to avoid the screw-holes being too close together.

A friend built a winter mountain bike around a Rohloff - it is a lovely bike. I have had 3, 7 and now 8 speed hub winter bikes - and really notice the lesser range of gears.

Both friend and I have had cable issues with the Rohloff - there is no return spring and two cables are needed. You have to keep them in adjustment to have crisp changes. On my bike the cables are very long making this problem a little worse.

I do loads of dumb things related to cycling and bikes, but I don't think buying a Rohloff was one of them. Mind you, the hub was stupidly expensive.

corvuscorvax

Yep. Even when you take into account the weight you save from chainrings, derailleurs, etc., they're still heavier than a standard setup.

As far as I understand, this is only the case with bad wheel builds. A properly built Rohloff wheel is exceptionally durable. In particular, the wheel should be built 2X, and you have to be careful about the inbound/outbound spokes.

Only between 7 and 8, and only under load. I have pretty much found this to be a non-issue, even riding on singletrack, for which I use my Rohloff extensively.

The 7/8 shifting "gotcha" is actually something of a feature, rather than a bug. (Or at least the best accomodation to the structure of the hub.) The main planetary system spans the top 7 gears (gear 11 is direct-drive), with a reducer to get you the bottom 7 gears. So shifting between 7 and 8 is a two-step process: you disengage the reducer, which puts you in 14, and then shift the main system all the way to the smallest gear, which puts you in 8. If you try to do this under load, the second step fails, leaving you in 14.

The alternative would be to shift the main system first, putting you in gear 1, then remove the reducer, putting you in 8. The problem here is, that if the second shift doesn't happened, you would be unexpectedly dumped into 1 instead of into 14, which would not by fun if you were cranking hard.

Yep. All of the low seven make a whirring noise because of the reducer, with 7 being the loudest. 8 and over are pretty much completely silent.

corvuscorvax

Not sure whether you have the internal or external shifter box. I have the external one, and have found it requires pretty much zero adjustment. Cabling the thing in the first place, however, is an ungodly pain.

One of the things I very much like is that the cable/shifter combination, once cabled properly, is a single, removable unit. When I pack my bike for travel, I simply remove the shifter box from the Rohloff, slide the gripshift off the bar, and pull the whole assembly (including cables, which are fully enclosed) off the bike. When I arrive at my destination, I just re-attach the whole assembly, and I'm good to go. No adjustment needed.

One downside is that the shifter box sticks out a little, and is vulnerable to getting taken out by logs or trees on singletrack. (No more so than a derailleur, perhaps). And it is quite well protected when I am running with rear panniers.

John N

I would agree with you in almost all respects. I have a external Rohloff using Rohloff specific rims (Rigida Andra). I have not had spoke issues. The primary reason I got it is that I tour off road usually with somewhat restricted time constraints (must return to work by X date). Due to the constrained time, I ride even when raining and sometimes the mud can be atrocious. With the Rohloff, I can continue assuming I can stay upright . With a dérailleur system, the dérailleur pulleys frequently get mucked up forcing me to stop every 30 feet and clear the mud so pushing is often better. I HATE to push. So for me, the mud riding abuse it and it keeps going viability of a Rohloff is why I bought it.

My biggest complaint is the noise. On mine, the noise on anything 7 and below is almost embarrassing when in a group of non-Rohloff riders who are unfamiliar with the system.

If I toured exclusively on paved roads and/or the occasional dry gravel road, I would stick with a decent dérailleur system.

seeker333

This topic has been discussed many times, linked at bottom of this post.

OP, IMO you'd be better off exploring the local culture or pedaling to Turkey rather than sitting around pondering the Rohloff topic. Obviously people who own them will have their own set of prejudices to justify the purchase decision. It's much like the Chris King headset, and the majority of owners who think it was a great decision to pay 10X as much for a headset, with no apparent real advantage over the cheapest ones you can buy.

I don't agree that Rohloff reduces maintenance. The main thing all chain-driven bikes need, including Rohloff, is frequent, regular chain cleaning and lubrication. Derailleurs, cassette and chainrings need to be wiped down occasionally too but not nearly as often as the chain.

All IGHs add friction and rob pedaling energy compared to a cleaned, lubed derailleur (D) system - you pay for that "reduced maintenance" and IGH novelty with every crank revolution. They become more equal in this regard once the D system gets dirty or is pedaled with poor gear selection (cross-chained). So keep your D drivetrain clean and use gearing properly and you're miles ahead (literally). I recommend you take the opportunity to ride some of your buddies' Rohloff-equipped bikes and compare pedaling resistance to your derailleur bike by swapping back and forth. You should notice the difference.

There is a long-standing myth that Rohloffs (R) are maintenance free and last forever, both clearly false as you know. In your Bishkek guesthouse you see a failure rate of 1 in 12, but I think it's actually a little higher. I have read a handful of touring journals where a R broke mid-tour. To R's credit, they do ship a replacement hub out free of charge to the ends of the world (well, free if you don't count the $1,400 you paid for it).

I am not totally opposed to the Speedhub - I might own one if they cost <$500. Not only is the R itself expensive, the bike that will accommodate it satisfactorily may be expensive too. There are no proper, economical touring frames or bikes with horizontal dropouts or EBBs, so you'd have to use the R chain tensioner, or have a custom frame made. I have read the R tensioner performs poorly longevity-wise and in fact any old rear derailleur is the usual substitute once the R tensioner breaks mid-tour.

I don't think the Speedhub is a bad idea, it's just that for most bicyclists it seems to be a solution without a problem. If you decide to buy a Speedhub, this company has consistently offered the entire R product line at very good prices over the ~5 years I've checked:

https://www.starbike.com/php/suchen.p...loff&q=&cid=28

Past discussions of R:

https://www.bikeforums.net/search.php?searchid=6333069

https://www.google.com/search?q=rohl...bikeforums.net

Tourist in MSN

I have never seen a Rohloff, I am only commenting on what I have heard - the large flange diameters result in the spokes going into the rim at an angle that is far from perpendicular, much bigger angle than a derailleur type hub. That apparently puts stress on the spokes where the spokes enter the spoke nipple, causing breakage at that point. (I got this info from Thorn's internet site.)

I am surprised Vik has not commented yet, I believe he has several bikes with Rohloff hubs.

corvuscorvax

Oh, my. Hard to pass this one up. In addition to being a Rohloff fanboi, I'm also a King headset fanboi. King headsets are demonstrably more durable than cheaper headsets, sorry. I made the mistake of putting a WTB headset on my fixed-gear road bike when I first built it. Those of you who ride fixies know that you put huge stress on the headset when pulling on the handlebars in a climb, and I destroyed that WTB headset in less than a year. The King headset I replaced it with has lasted a decade, and has needed no adjustment whatsoever. Well worth the extra cost. I would suggest that one has to worry about the extra stress on the headset when loaded touring as well.

Riding cross-chained, as you point out, adds about as much resistance as the Rohloff does. So a properly spec'ed bike is geared such that you mostly cruise in gear combos where you aren't cross-chained. A Rohloff is similar: there is no pedaling resistance at all in gear 11, and very little in nearby gears. So choose your chainring/cog combo such that your typical cruising speed is gear 10 or 11, and there is no disadvantage at all to the Rohloff. In fact, gear 11 will be better than any derailleur system, since the bike is direct drive, with no derailleur-induced friction at all.

As far as maintenance/reliability go, everything breaks eventually. Anecdotes like "I know this guy whose Rohloff broke on tour" are about as useful as anecdotes about "I know this guy who did 200,000 km on his Rohlofff without even changing the oil." I know that mine has performed better with wear, over a period of time where I would almost certainly have had to replace my derailleur, and probably my cogs/chainrings as well.

Rob_E

This matches my experience with a Nuvinci hub. Large diameter makes for less distance between the hub and the rim, and therefore for less forgiving angles. I built my Nuvinci wheel 3 cross on a 700 rim. I broke spokes at the nipple because of the severe angle. I rebuilt with a 2 cross and instead broke spokes at the flange. Then read the wheel building guidelines more carefully and rebuilt the wheel with all spoke heads on the same side of the flange in a 2 cross pattern (or maybe I went from a 2 cross to a 1 cross pattern). I also switched to Wheelsmith spokes, I think, although I also could have used spoke washers to the same effect, I think. After that, my spokes were fine.

A larger diameter hub changes the wheel build characteristics. I would say that in general it should make the wheel stronger. Lack of dishing in a hub gear should also make the wheel stronger. For me, the problem came from trying to build the wheel as if it was just another 700c wheel, without taking into consideration how larger hub affected the wheel build. I wonder if that isn't what is happening with Rolhoff users with spoke issues.

fietsbob

Dish balanced they should break less spokes , but OP is in a remote
location, and there is no real way of us knowing
what harsh terrain the bikes were submitted to ,
truing maintenance performed , and so forth.

Have 2, 1 in a 26" wheel, Koga Miyata WTR. rear dropout slides to tension chain.

the other is a 406 20" wheel bike friday, it uses their chain tensioner..

2 cross, 26" rim. 1 cross with the 20"

recent option, a different hub shell.. 36 spokes flanges..
on the left side there is a screw to open the hub shell between every 2nd spoke,
32 hole there is 8, 36 hole there are 9 ..

now Phil wood makes an aftermarket hub-shell, wider flanges but more closely spaced.
wider gets past the 2 spoke bolt 2 spoke bolt of the original hub shell..


I also own a brompton M3L, with a Schlumpf mountain drive crankset ,
it does with 2 separate components what R'off does internally.

in low range the highest hub gear follows the lowest gear in the hub in high range.
its that double shift 3<>4, in the MD and 7<>8 in the R'off, that uses the
3 or .. 7 speed twice..

In general you hesitate momentarily when making a gear change with a planetary gear system

the germans rounded off the gear tooth ends to make it a bit easier
under some power in 12 0f the 14 ratios, big range shift being done, first,

northerntier

>5000 miles on mine, w/ my 280-lb butt, plus gear, and I've never broken a spoke on my 36-h wheels. This is on roads, but including nasty roads, like enormous chasms at railroad tracks that I hit at >30mph. In fact, in two years. I've never had to true the rear wheel. Strangely, I did true the front wheel once, but it was very minor.

The noise does bug me, and I admit to having occasionally shifted up just to get rid of the noise when near others. Also, I think the seals on mine add too much drag (getting checked out as we speak), but otherwise I love it. Going back to a derailleur bike while my rohloff is winging its way to Cycle Monkey in California has been painful.

I have the eccentric BB w/ two screws poking into it. I thought this would be a big issue, but has been a non-issue so far. It work, and I haven't had any "merging" of the holes.

simplygib

I don't own a Rohloff, never seen one in person. I can pretty much guarantee I will never buy one. Just don't see the point, for my purposes. After putting 25,000 miles or so on my mtb conversion (bike commuting, recreational rides, several thousand miles of heavily loaded tours), I've got about $100 invested in cassettes (2) and hubs (1), and am still using the original Shimano Acera derailleur. If it ever breaks, I'll replace it with a new one for $25 bucks or so. I don't see the big advantage of a Rohloff, and I especially don't get the huge price tag.

fietsbob

One benefit I found, is the sequential ratio selector operated
through the 2 cable
grip shifter, is something I don't have to see to go thru the gear ratios
in sequence.

so during heavy rainfall when I am sheltered under my rain cape ,
draped over the Bars,
I can find the gear I want by feel..

And I live where the whole 526% range is Useful , every day.

I got, 1, in a second hand Bike ,
and one in A discounted new bike
because the
customer who made the built to order Bike Friday ,
wanted a darker frame color than It was finished in.
and he refused to take the bike so They stuck it on Epay.

[I called them up and they took it down,
and we went direct from there.]

mikhalit

This is not true, i have one of those that cost just as much as an LHT or less >> Poison Chinin IGH. So there is at least one cheap Rohloff frame, and it's actually a very nice one. It has EBB with two biting screws, no problems so far.

fietsbob

well German imports of QBP's TW frames , vs one sold by a different distributor is an unknown by this reader, as to relative costs.

German Tout Terrain Is, I expect a Batch Made frame , so less than custom..

the pinch Bolt BB does appeal for its not divoting with set screws,
the aluminum Eccentric.


The Bushnell Eccentric BB expands into a smooth shell, another approach.

alan s 

Curious about cleaning the drivetrain with a Rohloff. Does the chain have a removable link, allowing easy cleaning off the bike? The conditions I ride in necessitate frequent cleaning, lots of dirt and dust, so if removing the chain is difficult or not realistic, that would pretty much rule out the Rohloff as an option.

corvuscorvax

Or a Surly Troll, which has horizontal dropouts.

corvuscorvax

The Rohloff does not require a special chain. I run mine with a standard SRAM PC-7, which has a removable link. No problem.

chasm54

I have a Thorn Nomad with a Rohloff. It's an expensive bike, and the speedhub is one reason for that. I wouldn't attempt to justify the purchase on cost grounds, but it's a mighty impressive bit of kit. Despite what some of the sceptics say, there is no doubt that it is lower maintenanace than a derailleur setup. One fifteen minute oil change per 5000km. I've put almost 20,000km on the hub so far and it has got smoother, and quieter, with use. I like the range - a 17 inch low gear is very nice to have when heavily laden in seriously challenging territory, and I can still crank along at a great rate at the top end. But most of all I like the precise and equal steps between the gears. Is it worth it? I'd say yes. But that's a subjective opinion from someone lucky enough to not worry too much about the extra cost.

mikhalit

I've no Rohloff, but Alfine 8 and i tour with it. It does require more maintenance than Rohloff, but significantly less so than derailleur system. After 5000-6000 km chainrings and sprockets are like new and i am still running the same chain that was there 5000 km ago. Beautiful. Needless to say I have zero problems with shifting.

I am in no way opposing to derailleurs, but i find that both systems (igh and derailleurs) are equally nice. One just needs to figure out the priorities.

robow

Maybe we could insert this entire thread into the one with the subject line "Overkill?" in order to save space. Just teasing of course. I probably won't ever own an IGH but one of my closest touring buddies has one and will never go back. But yea it can be loud when riding with him on a nice smooth road and the wind at your back.
But having options is good!

fietsbob

Rohloff was making Chains too, but any 3/32" chain will do,
I'm using KMC on it now ,
they come with a quick link.. Park's chain pliers make opening it easy.

Their 15,16 & 17 t cogs are reversible , I just flipped mine over
to wear the other side of the teeth, before discarding it.

MassiveD

Getting the spokes is a big deal. I spent a year, in watchfull waiting. Many places would make the spokes, but that almost guarantees some breakage unless you can watch over their shoulders, and they have a Phil machine. In theory there is a rim that deals with the alignment problem, but I probably won't live to find one.

Overall, and this is tough for tourists because hardly anyone makes stuff for us, it may be worth simply using the Rohloff for what it was designed for. It was designed to deal with dirt in drivetrains on MTBs. It was not designed for loaded touring in far off places. If it had been, it would not be what it is.

northerntier

Speaking of a surly troll....