Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 167
  1. #26
    Senior Member Chris_in_Miami's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,474
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm loving what I see so far (apart from the top tube graphics, though that's really an insignificant issue for me.) I'm hoping to have a Campeur before the year is out.

  2. #27
    djb
    djb is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Montreal Canada
    Posts
    3,657
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    six jours, I cant speak for the opinions on the fender mounts, although I have never had a problem with any bikes mounting holes or whatever.
    I do however find threadless forks just easier to work on and adjust. Nice to only have to use an allen key or two. The easy peasy stem changes are also a big kicker for me.
    That said, threaded as you say is nice for small stem height changes, and if taking bars off for packing in a box for travel, a bit faster to do.

    in the end, there are tons of bikes out there for sale with x parts, so this is just another option out there I guess.

  3. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    Funny how stuff that's been proven effective and functional for decades is now relegated to "retro grouch" status even here in the touring forum.
    Not sure how standing up for the thing is relegating. And I didn't say it was retro crap, I said he has a retro grouch clientele which to some people is great. There are certain retro things that some people still prefer like square BBs or bar ends. But there is a Gordon or Sakkit way of doing that stuff, and a shinny, shinny, French, French, way.

    Good catch on the braze on, though they are the drops are brazed on.

  4. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by djb View Post
    I do however find threadless forks just easier to work on and adjust.
    Yeah, in a world were Richard Sachs puts them on his bikes, it is kinda game set and match. I've mostly used the quill stems but the threadless meet my criteria of everything fitting a few allen wrenches, as well as being a lot stronger.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/9866331@N08/3985720884/

  5. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post

    IOW, "new" is not necessarily "better". Which doubtless gets me written off as a retro grouch. *shrug*
    Not really. I think the required attitude is that old is always better, which is true often enough...

  6. #31
    nun
    nun is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    My Bikes
    Rivendell Quickbeam, Rivendell Rambouillet, Rivendell Atlantis, Circle A town bike, De Rosa Neo Primato, Cervelo RS
    Posts
    2,474
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MassiveD View Post
    Not really. I think the required attitude is that old is always better, which is true often enough...
    Yep that is definitely the case with the true retro grouch. I like the Campeur; the price is right and you could build it up in lots of ways.

    I'm a recovering retro grouch having bought a couple of Rivendell's to satisfy my nostalgia for my teenage years of riding. They are nice bikes with some great features, but I also like carbon and will mix and match old and new to get what I want. My retro-grouch comes out though when Shimano tries to sell Di2 to regular riders.

  7. #32
    Has opinion, will express
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    12,780
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Oh I don't know... I had a 5-second fiddle with a Shimano Di2 bikes in a Swiss LBS a few weeks ago, and I would have the Ultegra version on all my bikes in a flash if the system wasn't so expensive.

    It's a wonder the electronics experts haven't been putting together servos and switches and associated wiring to rig up their own. The principles and pulls are little different, as far as I can see, to what is used in radio controlled boats and planes.

    I also worked on an apple orchard that used little servos with simple electric motors responding to impulses from a 12v battery to open and close irrigation solenoids covering acres. The environment in which they operated was quite hostile (including being submerged under water for long periods), and the thin-gauge electrical wiring from the batteries ran for half a kilometre or more under the ground, so I can't see any particular issue with longevity on a bicycle using for touring. Battery charging would be no more complex than for phones.

    The company that needs to get its act together in this regard is Rohloff. An electronic system with one of its IGH would be sensational. Ideal for folding bikes and tandems in particular. Maybe Shimano already has one going...
    Dream. Dare. Do.

  8. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Dublin, OH
    My Bikes
    Serial bike flipper
    Posts
    333
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's funny how much antagonism there is here for the threaded headset. There's probably considerably more cost and hassle for them to do this, so I assume they value the easy height adjustment of the threaded setup more than the easy adjustment of the threadless type. I have a whole box full of stems from trying to make drop bars comfortable on a threadless setup, and I'd much rather have threaded for my next drop bar bike. To me, it seems like a smart way to make their frameset stand out.

  9. #34
    Has opinion, will express
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    12,780
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    It's funny how much antagonism there is here for the threaded headset. There's probably considerably more cost and hassle for them to do this, so I assume they value the easy height adjustment of the threaded setup more than the easy adjustment of the threadless type. I have a whole box full of stems from trying to make drop bars comfortable on a threadless setup, and I'd much rather have threaded for my next drop bar bike. To me, it seems like a smart way to make their frameset stand out.
    A lot of the problem is that the steerer tube often is cut way too early... that is, the LBS has made the decision for you, or people don't have the patience to fiddle around with spacers, or are embarrassed when cycling associates rib them about the stack of spacers they have.

    It's not a fault of the design, which I find to be somewhat more flexible that a fixed-length quill. And you can't flip a quill stem as an added fit option!

    The issue of stem length is the same whether it's a quill/threaded stem or a threadless one... if it's not right, you still have to buy a new stem.

    For touring, the threadless concept is handier because it's much easier to adjust bearing preload.

    Having said all that, Europe is the home of the quill stem on new bikes. We've seen bikes with quills that must be around 300mm in length so riders can get that upright position that is so familiar.
    Dream. Dare. Do.

  10. #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The frame is just out, so maybe next week they will sell the threadless version. I don't know what the history of their frames is, do they do that?

    Actually, my one gripe is the price. 600 is pretty steep compared to LHT, Gordon, Nashbar, and some local places that source from Taiwan sources, and do an excellent job. But, it isn't all that bad, and if it is what people want, all the better.

    Back a while Velo O was toying with a bike like this, but it was different, and sounded sorta cool. It was pretty heavy duty, and I think it was only coming out in 650b, which is not that sensible for a tank, but every now and again some whimsy is nice.

    http://velo-orange.blogspot.ca/2007/...ist-frame.html

  11. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    Oh I don't know... I had a 5-second fiddle with a Shimano Di2 bikes in a Swiss LBS a few weeks ago, and I would have the Ultegra version on all my bikes in a flash if the system wasn't so expensive.


    The company that needs to get its act together in this regard is Rohloff. An electronic system with one of its IGH would be sensational. Ideal for folding bikes and tandems in particular. Maybe Shimano already has one going...
    I could see that. But I don't really want it. I bought a pick-up a few years ago and got a great deal on it, but it came loaded with all sorts of stuff I never would have bought if it had not been a going out of business sale across Detroit. Electric windows are great, particularly if your vehicle is so large that you can't reach any of the non-driver windows. But fundamentally if you spend your vacation turning cranks with your feet, I don't see any reason to resist turning the handle that lowers the windows. And in any case I really like nicely machined metal parts for mechanical systems. But that is ultimately why electronics will win since this is an electronic age.

  12. #37
    djb
    djb is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Montreal Canada
    Posts
    3,657
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MassiveD View Post
    But that is ultimately why electronics will win since this is an electronic age.
    I dunno. Makes me think of photo stuff. I've worked in photo since 89, so did all the darkroom stuff, worked as a b+w printer, film developer, and shot with mechanical cameras without lightmeters, mech cameras with light meters, then onto electronic cameras with built in motordrives that were lighter than the previous cameras with drives bolted to them...and on and on.
    I kept a couple of mechanical bodies and some of my favorite manual focus lenses, but as digital came in, I realize that I just dont use them and havent put a roll of film in a camera for, who knows, maybe 8 years? All post prod stuff went from physically viewing negs or slides with a loup, and then perhaps to an enlarger, to scanning negs and slides, to then completely digital and on screen only from start to finish.

    Weird to think of how it changed, and yes this stuff all cost waaaaay more than a film body, BUT, and a big but, it ended up being cheaper in long run as we didnt have to pay lab fees, or buy film, chemicals, etc etc.

    When thinking of bicycles and if Di2 stuff will take over, I happen to think not. Even if the price comes down and down, for regular non-racing riders, the time saved is nothing, and unlike brifters (which I love riding with) electronic stuff still needs to be charged and this point that I believe, will still always be a lot more expensive than mechanical systems.
    If in the future, I had the choice between paying , I dunno, 1500 bucks or 2500 for a similar bike but a grand more for a Di2 system, I would prefer to take the grand and use that to go on a plane ride somewhere and bike around said somewhere for a few weeks.

    Will I be wrong on this, who knows? Will electronic shifting become so cheap that they end up on all kinds of bikes, even medium priced ones, and be pretty much bullet proof and have batteries that last for months?
    As you said, as non competitive bikers, I think the cost vs snazzy factor will mean that mechanical systems will stay in place for a majority of riders. My wifes old hybrid is being used by our teenage son, and the 7 speed middle of the road derailleurs and twist shifters are still working fine after at least 20 years. I somehow doubt that electronic shifting systems will be so long lasting and cheap to maintain (let alone not have issues with wiring,contact stuff wearing out etc) and while snazzy stuff is always going to sell, regular reliable cheap stuff will always sell.

    shall be interesting to see what time brings up and what stuff remains.

  13. #38
    nun
    nun is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    My Bikes
    Rivendell Quickbeam, Rivendell Rambouillet, Rivendell Atlantis, Circle A town bike, De Rosa Neo Primato, Cervelo RS
    Posts
    2,474
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by djb View Post

    If in the future, I had the choice between paying , I dunno, 1500 bucks or 2500 for a similar bike but a grand more for a Di2 system, I would prefer to take the grand and use that to go on a plane ride somewhere and bike around said somewhere for a few weeks.
    I'd spend the grand on 2 sets of spare wheels or I's just get a better frame without Di2.

  14. #39
    Has opinion, will express
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    12,780
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ummm... people are spending over $1500 already on Rohloff hubs which arguably aren't worth the money if you have a derailleur system of reasonable quality.

    The fact is, the cost of electronic shifting will decrease over time. As all these products have. The camera analogy is excellent -- who would think of using film these days, and the proof is in the bankruptcy of Kodak and the demise of Polaroid.

    Batteries for the Di2 already last for months now, so that is a non argument. In Europe, many (and I mean many) ordinary commuter and leisure bikes are specced with dynohubs. It's almost a matter of course to be running around with a dynohub, and B&M lights front and rear.

    The touring subset is quintessentially conservative. Just look at the lather posters got themselves into over nun's suggested use of a CF frame for touring, and the UL thread in the early days. Aluminium was a material of the devil, until Cannondale produced some beauties. Now Ti has assumed Satan's mantle. And Ti -- well, why spend money on a Ti bike when you could use the change for a steel to buy a plane ticket? Except, Ti bikes are now ultra-competitive in the marketplace, and make quite nice, quick touring bikes (I have one).

    And the ultimate indulgence for the quintessentially conservative touring cyclist? Spend an added $2000 or $3000 or more on a "custom" steel touring frame. I've never had an issue making an off-the-shelf frame fit me, so by the time I put a Di2 shifting system on it, I still would have cash left over for a darned good tour.

    To keep this on topic. I would spend not the money on a Velo Orange frame. I got the Thorn Club Tours we are using now for not much over the VO price landed in Australia, and they have a much more substantial reputation.

    Plus, I also know that after undoing the four bolts on the stem faceplate, the handlebars will come away without any trouble when packing the bikes, unlike some of the quill stems that need a strike with a hammer to break them free... and hammers are not common items to be found lying around airports.
    Last edited by Rowan; 10-01-12 at 10:44 AM. Reason: Inserting "not" as referenced in MassiveD's subsequent post
    Dream. Dare. Do.

  15. #40
    Has opinion, will express
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    12,780
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Oh, and I forgot... those new-fangled STI brifters... they aren't nearly as good as my old downtube or bar end shifters, can't be serviced in the field, and won't last you a decent tour without giving you heaps of trouble that will leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere.
    Dream. Dare. Do.

  16. #41
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Droll.

    I think the real concern is that when they break they can be more trouble to fix, not that they will break. Though you are right that both are said. All info I have heard is they are super durable, who shifts more than racers. It is just the IF. And the IF happens to someone, don't they have the right to feel their own pain.

    Overall hard not to imagine that everything we know would fall prey to enough time spent on the road. Not Rowanesque time, even as I look up to the mileage pinnacle you occupy, more like Heinz Stücke time. However, I guess we can't know since he rode such a simple bike most of the time...

  17. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post

    To keep this on topic. I would spend the money on a Velo Orange frame. I got the Thorn Club Tours we are using now for not much over the VO price landed in Australia, and they have a much more substantial reputation.
    Do you mean that you would not spend the money on such a frame? Basically if a person wants a cheap expedition tourer, there are good choices already. You have to want the retro frame, but tig welded in China. But those kind of people are out there.

    Custom, basically people who buy custom frames want: to spend more money; buy more beauty or fit; or need something that is not at the mean, like a real crazy expedition worthy bike, or maybe a real light tourer that still mounts normal accessories. Or maybe they want S&S on a bike that is worth that. Price is normally not the issue. Most enthusiasts that I know who buy low end frames, buy so many bikes, that they could have bought several customs, no problem, same goes with the buyers of mid range components. At least if you buy the most expensive near the beginning, you know that there really won't be some magical formula discovered by a mid market purveyor, and you won't feel the need to stray. But that said, there are collectors at all price levels.

  18. #43
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Denver, CO
    My Bikes
    Some silver ones, a black one, a red one, an orange one and a couple of titanium ones
    Posts
    15,596
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    It's funny how much antagonism there is here for the threaded headset. There's probably considerably more cost and hassle for them to do this, so I assume they value the easy height adjustment of the threaded setup more than the easy adjustment of the threadless type. I have a whole box full of stems from trying to make drop bars comfortable on a threadless setup, and I'd much rather have threaded for my next drop bar bike. To me, it seems like a smart way to make their frameset stand out.
    That antagonism arises out of working on the damned things. Threaded headsets are futzy at best. I've worked on hundreds of them and they are all difficult to adjust, install and rebuild. They are next to impossible to work on in the field...you aren't likely to carry a wrench large enough for the lock nut and you need a second large wrench for the bearing cup.

    They also have a tendency to loosen. Back in the mid90s, there was a large cottage industry devoted to making locking mechanisms for mountain bikes to keep the headset from loosening. Before each ride, I would fill the tires of my mountain bike and check the headset. I'd check the headset mid-ride to make sure that the headset was tight and then replace the headset post-ride because it had loosened and pounded the bearings to mush. I haven't had any such problem with threadless.

    As for height, Rowan is correct. Overzealous mechanics cut the steer tube too short.
    Stuart Black
    Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
    Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
    Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
    Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
    An Good Ol' Fashion Appalachian Butt Whoopin'.

  19. #44
    Has opinion, will express
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    12,780
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MassiveD View Post
    Do you mean that you would not spend the money on such a frame? Basically if a person wants a cheap expedition tourer, there are good choices already. You have to want the retro frame, but tig welded in China. But those kind of people are out there.

    Custom, basically people who buy custom frames want: to spend more money; buy more beauty or fit; or need something that is not at the mean, like a real crazy expedition worthy bike, or maybe a real light tourer that still mounts normal accessories. Or maybe they want S&S on a bike that is worth that. Price is normally not the issue. Most enthusiasts that I know who buy low end frames, buy so many bikes, that they could have bought several customs, no problem, same goes with the buyers of mid range components. At least if you buy the most expensive near the beginning, you know that there really won't be some magical formula discovered by a mid market purveyor, and you won't feel the need to stray. But that said, there are collectors at all price levels.
    Thank you, yes, correct. I wouldn't buy one. My excuse is that I was in a rush to get out the door... for a bike ride

    Yes, the VO is filling a niche.

    And if everyone is realistic and honest, the more touring frame options that are out there and obvious to the buying public (as opposed to esoteric custom frame builders), the more awareness there is of touring, and therefore the flow-on awareness by retailers for touring specific equipment.

    Surly has been a very significant contributor to that awareness, but it would be unfair not to recognise others such as Fuji and Trek which have been offering off-the-shelf touring frames for a mighty long time in the US and elsewhere.

    Good luck to VO, anyway. I am sure there are some people who are going to assemble some nice looking tourers using that frame and other parts sourced from VO... but maybe with STIs or bar-ends and aero brakes levers.
    Dream. Dare. Do.

  20. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,881
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I haven't counted the number of threaded headsets I have worked on, but it's been about 30 years' worth. Some were/are better than others, but I've had roller bearing headsets go for many, many years without any maintenance at all - including one that put in a couple of seasons racing on cobblestones in the late eighties and which is still in use on my "primary" bike today. It hasn't needed adjustment since I installed it on that bike in 2008.

    For my money, the only real advantage of threadless is ease of stem replacement, but that's offset by increased difficulty making height adjustments. As I personally find the need for height adjustments more often than length adjustments, that makes threaded better for me.

  21. #46
    Has opinion, will express
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    12,780
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You say that about the ease of stem replacement, but the vast majority of old stems I've dealt with had to have the tape and the brake or shifter removed from one side to get the handlebars out, and then the whole process had to be repeated in reverse.

    With threadless, undo four bolts on the faceplate and remove the handlebars without interfering with anything on the bars.

    I can't see how it can be a problem increasing or decreasing height, or improving angle with threadless if the steerer tube hasn't been cut down too far to prevent this from happening.
    Dream. Dare. Do.

  22. #47
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My method of adjusting the threaded headsets on the go is to leave the lock nuts loose, then every so often hit the front brake and reach down and twist the lower nut. Then later I hand tighten the two nuts. Keeps them on the road for decades.

  23. #48
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Denver, CO
    My Bikes
    Some silver ones, a black one, a red one, an orange one and a couple of titanium ones
    Posts
    15,596
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    I haven't counted the number of threaded headsets I have worked on, but it's been about 30 years' worth. Some were/are better than others, but I've had roller bearing headsets go for many, many years without any maintenance at all - including one that put in a couple of seasons racing on cobblestones in the late eighties and which is still in use on my "primary" bike today. It hasn't needed adjustment since I installed it on that bike in 2008.

    For my money, the only real advantage of threadless is ease of stem replacement, but that's offset by increased difficulty making height adjustments. As I personally find the need for height adjustments more often than length adjustments, that makes threaded better for me.
    How often do you raise and/or lower your stem? Mine are pretty much set once and forgotten. I don't cut my steer tube down on a new fork or bike until I've decided where I want my stem and even then I leave a little room on top for adjustment...which I never use.

    Threadless has the advantage if you want to do a fork replacement. That's not something that happens on road and touring bikes all that often but is more common for mountain bikes. Recently I purchased a new suspension fork for one of my mountain bikes and was going to swap the old one to my winter commuter. Cobert goes to the interview at 10 minutes to the hour, I went out to my garage, disconnected the brakes, removed the wheel and fork from bike 1. Then I disconnected the brakes, removed wheel and the fork from bike 2, removed the crown race from bike 2, installed the crown race on the new fork for bike 1. I then slipped the new fork into bike 1, installed the stem, set the bearings, connected the brakes and replaced the wheel. I did the same to bike 2. By the time I got back in the house, the news was coming on at the hour or about 10 minutes total work. It took longer to type this then it did to swap two forks. That's the beauty of threadless...simple, quick and efficient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    You say that about the ease of stem replacement, but the vast majority of old stems I've dealt with had to have the tape and the brake or shifter removed from one side to get the handlebars out, and then the whole process had to be repeated in reverse.

    With threadless, undo four bolts on the faceplate and remove the handlebars without interfering with anything on the bars.

    I can't see how it can be a problem increasing or decreasing height, or improving angle with threadless if the steerer tube hasn't been cut down too far to prevent this from happening.
    Totally agree. There are some threaded stems that have faceplates but they are relatively rare.

    Quote Originally Posted by MassiveD View Post
    My method of adjusting the threaded headsets on the go is to leave the lock nuts loose, then every so often hit the front brake and reach down and twist the lower nut. Then later I hand tighten the two nuts. Keeps them on the road for decades.
    Having had many a headset work loose, your method would be a recipe for replacement in my experience. It doesn't take much looseness to pound the races into index steering mode.
    Stuart Black
    Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
    Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
    Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
    Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
    An Good Ol' Fashion Appalachian Butt Whoopin'.

  24. #49
    Cyclist storckm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    My Bikes
    Yuba Mundo; Early 70's Free Spirit (Reynolds 531) fixie; 80's Shogun 500; Mid 90's Iron Horse tandem; trailer and tag-a-long; Schwinn Range for commuting, with lights and front and rear racks.
    Posts
    550
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Why would one choose this over an LHT?

  25. #50
    <riding now> BigAura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Chapin, SC
    My Bikes
    surly LHT, paris sport fixie, trek 5000, fuji ss
    Posts
    1,392
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by storckm View Post
    Why would one choose this over an LHT?
    Form follows function = LHT

    Function follows form = VO Campeur

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •