allysdad531

shouldn't we just be riding our bikes and enjoying the ride and the bikes rather than commiserating over silly details?

staehpj1

Toe overlap is one of those things that bother some riders but not others. I find that I might or might not bump my toe on the tire once or twice on a new bike if there is a lot of toe overlap and then after that never notice the problem again. Personally avoiding toe overlap would be way down on my list of design criteria, but for some it is apparently a non starter.

Six jours

You trying to put Bike Forums out of business or something?

djb

chuckle. or any internet forum for that matter....

dvald001

Dude, as a new Campeur owner I was excited to find this thread ... only to find it devolve into a long-winded argument over headsets

Well, since I built up my Campeur I have to say that it is quickly becoming my favorite bike. After going through about 8 bikes over the last 3 years as my interests in cycling have developed and evolved I think I finally found a great do-it-all bike with no aspects of which I want to change (without opening up that can of worms, I've found myself with a preference for quill stems). I've ridden on trails, on gravel, to work, and on fun rides and the bike has handled it all with aplomb and comfort. It has the eyelets to set up racks and fenders and so far I like how it rides with and without a load. Amazing bike.

Earlier in this thread, someone claimed that Surly was all about function over form, and that Velo Orange was all about form over function. They're wrong. I've owned a Surly Crosscheck (even toured down the Cali coast on it) and I think the Campeur is every bit as tough and versatile, albeit a bit more stable, and a bit less aggressive. However, where VO stands out is by providing form AND function. For some people, bikes are just tools. Need a mudflap? Cut up a plastic jug. Need some storage? Lash down a milk crate. But for some people the aesthetics of a bike are every bit as important as the functionality a bike provides. Surly bikes are great, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with a LHT or a Crosscheck in terms of functionality. But they are not beautiful bikes--the headbadges alone are cringe-worthy and the default frame colors tend to be boring and generic. The Campeur, with its level top tube, nice sloping curve of the fork, metal head badge, elegant fonts, and quill stem, is a much more beautiful bike. It's a bike that people can ride on dirt, rough roads, and smooth bike lanes. But it's also a bike that can be admired.

gerv 

Great speech, but where are the pictures?

rifraf

Thems fighting words
I'm looking forward to finally making my mind up on a new tourer after approx 17 years with my Moulton APB.
The one thing I have made my mind up about is that it will have front and rear disk brakes. Albeit cable operated (BB7)
I've bought a disk Rohloff in anticipation.
A Son28 disk and Rohloff disk equipped Surly Ogre is looking the most likely so far.
I'd have made up my mind already but am a little unhappy with the rear wheel removal procedure, especially with fenders.
I agree Surly leans a little toward function over form but thats nothing a few aesthetic personal touches cant improve upon (IMHO).
Some polished alloy Thorn cranks, stainless tubus racks, polished alloy thomson seatpost and stem. A Brooks saddle and I'm getting polished alloy versions of the afore mentioned hubs. Silver CX-Ray spokes and silver Velocity Dyad rims.
I'm leaning toward the harder to source (in Australia) black frame (which seems to set off the white decals nicely).
Seriously like the look of hammered finish stainless steel fenders (Honjo?)

MassiveD

I think when one gets into the question of touring on non-Surly touring bikes, the form over function thing comes up also. Granted, there are probably a few serious cross racers out there getting dual duty out of their CCs, But I have seen tons of threads and a lot of it sounds like poser 101. Of course the people who are 100% function oriented are also posers.



Exactlty, relative to the Surly it is form over function as opposed to function over form. You have convinced me.

Six jours

Functionality and attractiveness are not mutually exclusive.

tombc

sexy decal (puke)

MassiveD

That is true, one of the design truisms. It is marketing not natural law that leads to sloping the effort in one direction or another.

Six jours

Maybe. I personally think some of the most beautiful bicycles made are also the most functional. Beauty, of course, being in the eye of the beholder...

Bekologist

Objectivity disagrees with this assessment. A bike that is not compatible with 95 percent of handlebars on the market without a kluge to fit, and offers limited headset choice and fork replacement to fit as well, does NOT coup in functionality.

fuzz2050

How is the Campeur limited in handlebar choices? There are enough 31.8 quill stems out there that if you really want, you can run oversized handlebars. Although be honest, who buys a frame from V-O and runs oversized handlebars. A pair of Nittos are much more likely.

seat_boy

That's a very limited definition of functionality. You could also say that the VO offers an integrated frame/fork package, designed to carry a well balanced front or front/rear loading, offers good tire clearance, and easy to adjust handlebar height. This is a very different viewpoint of functionality, where the VO excels but many other bikes don't.

Six jours

Have to agree. There is a wide variety of handlebars and stems available for threaded. It's hard to imagine not being able to find what you need. Frankly, my favorite handlebars in the world are available only in 26.0 - and they are also among the most aesthetically pleasing handlebars available (IMO, of course), especially when combined with a slim and elegant 1" stem.

fietsbob

Yea But, Who got one and where are the pictures of it?

Bekologist

unterhausen

I have to say that the argument over stems is getting rather stale. Nobody is going to buy this bike without being perfectly aware of what is or isn't available to them. If this bike is acceptable to someone in every other way except h-bar choices, quill adapters work just fine.

Six jours

I'm just honestly mystified as to what a person could be looking for in a handlebar that isn't available in 25.6 or 26.0 - unless, for some idiotic reason, we're trying to mount carbon handlebars to our touring bikes. To me, it's like getting into an argument with someone who thinks 911 was an inside job: it's unlikely to be productive, yet you just can't tear yourself away from it.

unterhausen

funny you should mention that, I recently looked up an old riding buddy and they are now a professional 911 truther. But let's leave that one lie, they ride among us. Also, too, we can drop the handlebar argument.

Bekologist

since six jours has continued to comment on the HB issue, *yawn*

I've just been pointing out to the 'functionalists' that non-compatibility with modern standards doesn't make a bike 'more functional' than more contemporarily specc'd framesets that accept far more parts and fitments.



It's like lauding Ashtabula cranksets as 'more functional' because the cranks arms are less likely to come loose.

It's genuinely too bad for both VO and a lot of riders that are looking for bikes with touring chops and a low trail front end that their framesets don't come specc'd in a modern standard.

This in not an 'argument' so much as a 'lament'.

yeah, my feelings exactly.

shelbyfv

I think it's a nice looking bike. I might even buy one. I might have to tolerate an ugly Nitto stem and bar. I predict I will not have the Last Word on this.

Six jours

<edit> Nevermind. I don't really understand why we need a moderator to tell us not to talk about handlebars on a bicycling website, but whatever.

gerv 

Yes... that would be a bonus. Here's a guy who has one, worked briefly at VO and has lots of pics. Seems like a reasonable appraisal too. Don't know if this was posted earlier...
https://gypsybytrade.wordpress.com/ta...range-campeur/