cbike

BTW, I have easier access to Bromptons than Bike Fridays here in Iowa, USA. It's funny and great. So distance to the manufacturer doesn't matter.

fietsbob

UPS/Fed Ex Truck brought mine to my Door.

gdlerner

I been also traveling with my BF NWT,I never tested a brompont,but I Think the 20" wheel are much better then a 16" the brompton use,and like other people say the bf is made for touring.The only thing happend to me was that the rear fork brokes ,but I got it replaced by BF with out questions.Another option maybe will be this one
the rhino
https://www.airnimal.eu/rhino.php
saludos

Ekdog

I want a folder both for tooling around town and for short, one-to-seven-day, multi-modal tours. I'm car-free, and I want to be able to put the bike on a bus or train and get closer to areas I want to explore. I already have two mountain bikes set up for longer tours, but if I strike out from home, it might take me two days of rather boring riding to get to those areas.

That's me! That's exactly what I'm looking for!

I'm not sure what you mean by "reduced stock" in this context, but I'll definitely be going for the six speed hub. Can I order a smaller-than-standard chainwheel?

Here are the specs I've got in mind at the moment:

Main frame: Sage green
Extremities: Sage green
Model: M Type
Gearing: 6 Speed (-12%)
Mudguards & rear rack: Mudguards & rack + Easy Wheels
Seat pillar: Telescopic
Saddle: Standard (will replace with sprung Brooks from another bike).
Tires: Schwalbe Marathon
Rear suspension: Firm
Lighting: Shimano Dynamo Hub, LED front, standlight rear
Front luggage: T Bag set

Sound like a plan? Let me know if you think anything's amiss.

I'm going to check them out.

juggleaddict

My only experience with a Brompton was pretty horrible. It was certainly robust. I rode 80 miles on 16 inch wheels, struggled to keep a 12mph pace (with no luggage on the bike or me) and ended up completely exhausted at the end of the day. I've done that ride on my singlespeed averaging 18-22 and felt fine. I felt like I was pedalling through mud all day long. Could have been the bike, it certainly could have used a tune up, but my god. . . I don't know if I could hop on a small wheeled bike again.

I've heard that a bike friday feels like a "normal" bike, but I have yet to have one grace my sight. I would gladly sacrifice having a longer period to take apart the bike to get something that felt like a normal bike. 15 minutes is piddles on a tour. The one thing that stopped me from the bike friday (while I love the accessibility) was the price. you can build a custom rig for that money with much better components.

Ekdog

I'm an "unracer", as the author of this book calls those of us who prefer a more leisurely pace, and one who prefers bicycles that aren't designed for racing. Fifty to sixty miles is maximum for me on a full-sized bike, and going even slower actually appeals to me. I tour by myself so I can dawdle along without bothering anyone. I like stopping to talk to people, observing the flora and fauna, the architecture, sampling the local cuisine, and so on.

tourer78

I have probably posted enough about how much we love our bike friday pocket sports but here I go again - just got back from a 210km charity ride in Melbourne, again no probs with the fridays rode it in two 105km blocks with a 25km/h average and a constant stream of "isn't it difficult on those little wheels" from other riders 6 weeks in europe in august/september on bikes trains and ferries, packed and unpacked the bikes many times. For an idea of how they look "quick folded" with our home made curtain covers see here https://www.flickr.com/photos/8444869...in/photostream

I also liked the look of the Bromptons, they certainly are popular in Spain and we did see a couple of people touring fully loaded on them with seemingly no problems. I know for a fact that almacenes calmera at 98 atocha in Madrid (i previously incorrectly posted 95 as the address ) had a ton of bromptons in stock when we were in Madrid in September (and that is not an exaggeration)

I regard my fridays now as a normal bike on par with any of my full size bikes, for an idea it takes me about 45 minutes at a leisurely pace to pack our two into their cases, around an hour if I do some maintenance ( lube chains, pump tyres etc ) ready for their next destination. Whatever folder you choose I am sure you will be surprised with their performance, and teaming one up with the excellent rail network in europe will give you almost endless touring oppurtunities.

wahoonc

This is my take on touring too...

I have not toured on a Brompton...yet. However I have done several spoke and hub type tours and day long jaunts on a Dahon Classic III. I am sure the Brompton would be much more suitable. I did have a BF NWT years ago and would not mind having another one. I do think for quick fold, on-off of transit that the Brompton is going to be hard to beat.

Touring is more a state of mind than the equipment involved.

Aaron

juggleaddict

lol, let's not get into another conversation about this book O:-) it's been hashed out a few dozen times on the commuting forum.

I'm not saying I want to go fast, I just don't want to work hard at going slow. I'd consider 12 mph to be pretty leisurely unloaded. Again, it may have had more to do with the fact that it was a 10 year old model.

Who here also considered a bike with couplers, and why did you choose to go with a folder instead? or vice versa?

Rowan

Removing the handlebars, front wheel, pedals and seat from my diamond frame touring bike are all that I have to do before putting everything into a properly sized bike box. It takes all of... 15 minutes at the most. (A ratchet wrench that I picked up at MEC last year has made the job so much more efficient.)

As I posted before, the takedown time for a BF seemed to be a little more complex.
We considered couplers, but while I have a friend qualified to do them in Australia, the cost is relatively prohibitive; the size of the wheels on a 700C or 26" bike automatically makes any case too big for free airline passage; and that takedown-buildup time is a real bear, so the full bike can still be difficult to get on and off trains and other transport (in Europe).

All those reasons are why the BF and Bromptons have a distinct advantage; even the Airnimals don't quite cut it for airline transport because the wheels are too big.

And of course, the Dahons, Terns and so on don't rate very well because their hinges are in fact their weakest point, in my estimation, for extended loaded touring purposes, even though they fold down to a compact package. The Brompton's advantage certainly appears to be the way it folds from the BB.

I would love to have access to a bike that combines all the positive elements of the BFs and Bromptons. Maybe a custom build might be in order... hmmm... I might have to contact my friend who does the S&S couplings to see what he might be able to do.

cbike

The gearing you list is what I'm talking about. It's a 3 speed hub with a 2 gear cassette and a smaller chainring.

cbike

Keeping the 12mph pace might have been your problem. Because of the limited gearing, which means bigger gaps between gears, you need to find the optimal pace for you. This might mean to slow down or speed up a little. Ride what's comfortable and don't gauge it by your regular bicycle.

fietsbob

I agree with the above, with a 3 speed, I lower my pace..
to fit the gear ratio.
[with the Rohloff I change gears to keep the effort and cadence similar]

I've ridden tens of thousands of miles on tours at an average of 7MPH/.



I see pictures of the 2013 Brompton's Significant improvements
that their sales volume makes custom made parts practical.

#1, the Rear Rim .. is now, to be Made Optimized for that location..

2) the Stronglight(?) supplier is to ship a crank with regular replaceable chainrings
fitted to a 5 arm spider, Forged as part of the crank-arm.

After Market : I liked fitting Ergon Grips on the M bars ..

wahoonc

They were cost prohibitive when added to an existing bike they were going to be in the $600 range (just for the couplers), a bit less on a new custom build. Most of my "touring" bikes are re-purposed from a variety of old steel framed bikes. Most came in under $700. A new Surly LHT is ~$1200 a Brommie maybe $1600, a BF NWT ~$2,000. You will be very near that or more if you use the S&S Couplers. It is going to boil down to what you want. If you travel regularly and use mass transit a lot the Brompton would be my first choice, if I traveled more by bike and less by transit I would seriously consider the NWT for everything else what ever rolls and catches my fancy.

Aaron

tourer78

2 bikes, leisurely at 45mins total=22.5 minutes per bike, on par with the diamond frame. When done you are left with a standard suitcase that can be manouvered easily about town onto trains, taxis, buses, ferries or just walking. The longest distance we walked to a transport connection with our bikes packed into suitcases was approximately 2km (before anyone asks why we didnt ride this distance, if my connections are super early in the morning, like the 6:45am bus to Dubrovnik-I prefer to have my gear packed the night before)-try walking that with a bike box!!

I feel confident that if put under pressure I could probably do the pack in 10 to 15 minutes per bike. I beleive Bromptons can just be slipped into a case with zero dismantling required, there have been many interesting posts in the folders forum about people adapting various cases for use with bromptons. Maybe you could do a search on these as you and the OP continue the research into folders. Happy shopping!!

staehpj1

I strongly suggest that anyone trying a small wheeled folder give it a good trial ride before buying. At a minimum this should include climbing some hills and riding a lot more than a spin around the parking lot at the shop. I know that I have found my Dahon Helios pretty unsuitable for anything other than really casual riding on relatively flat terrain. For me the tall flexy masts for seat and handlebars and the upright posture required made for a pretty inefficient and unpleasant climbing machine. I have not ridden a Brompton, but the masts are longer and the handlebars look even closer, so I would expect that it might be worse than the Helios in that regard.

You may find that it works fine for you, but do yourself a favor and find that out before parting with your cash.

BTW: The limited gearing is for me a way lesser issue that the geometry issues and lack of stiffness of the masts.

staehpj1

FWIW: I can do that with my full size non folding bike and all my gear in reasonable comfort, but reduced walking speed when I use the Performance TransIt Soft Bike Case with a shoulder strap. That assumes packing pretty light, but it works surprisingly well. Most of my gear winds up in the TransIt Soft Bike Case, but a few pounds of it is in an REI Flash 18 backpack that I use as a "personal item/carry-on". I could fit everything in the soft case and still just make the 50 pound limit, but I'd have to go very easy on padding/packing materials and pack very light. Instead I use a generous amount of cardboard and carry some gear in the little back pack.

Just another option though.

tourer78

That is a good point and indeed another option, I also note that you can buy semi rigid bike bags with suitcase wheels, I wonder how they handle along footpaths and the like? We are getting off subject now aren't we

Rowan

We'd do the packing at the train station or airport. Carrying a bike box on the bike is not that difficult. I carried a full-sized box through the streets of Paris to get back from a bike shop to the hotel where I stayed while riding. Otherwise, I just fold the box down and put it on the rack.

We've also lugged bike boxes by dragging them varying distances, but not quite 2km. I think the longest was from the Earls Court railway station to the hostel. I usually add four or five layers of packing tape to the bottom ends of the bike box to account for this dragging about.

When leaving Melbourne on this trip, we arranged our accommodation to be about 500 metres from the airport. We bought the bike boxes, took them back to the hotel, packed the bikes, then grabbed two of the luggage trolleys from the airport (but already at the hotel), put the boxes on standing up on their ends, and walked to the airport.

So in general terms, all this is covered by any sort of bike, including the Airnimals (which appeal to me quite a lot). It's more the reducing to get the bikes on trains, and in cabs or coaches that concern me, and that's where the Brompton appears to come into its own over the BFs.

I do appreciate the feedback you are giving. You aren't being defensive about it, which is a great thing. One of the options we are looking at on this trip is actually stopping by at the Bike Friday operation in Oregon to have a look and maybe do some test riding.

Rowan

I don't know, but that's probably why the Brompton is available with a variety of handlebar options which in some cases reduces the length of the steerer pole, and therefore might reduce the amount of flex in that area.

tourer78

One last thing and then I will say no more ( for the moment, I feel bad because I think we might have hijacked this from the OP ) If you make it to the bike friday factory you may want to check out their new "silk" range of 20" wheeled bikes https://bikefriday.com/bicycles/silk - from the emails/video I have seen it seems to result in a more compact/easy to cart around fold than the standard bike friday, but I am not sure if the frame style will suit everyones tastes, or how it affects mounting a rack etc? It would be appreciated if you could post your thoughts here or in the folders forum if you get a chance to check them out.

And if you are leaning towards that "dream build" scenario you talked about earlier, you might want to contact English cycles whilst in Eugene (Rob English also works for BF) he has built Full size bikes that utilize a similar fold to the BF in the past https://www.englishcycles.com/customb...venture-bikes/ from what I gather he seems to be able to come up with just about anything. Enjoy your travels!

fietsbob

I looked.. BF Silk is almost as good as Brompton in fold, rate,
but the handle bar mast wont fold, and still Bigger.. even if.

FWIW , When I got my P Llama. it came with the optional aluminum
folding steering mast,
the fork steerer, is a bit different when ordering that part
instead of the Knock Down steering mast..

racks always are a removed part , for travel shipping.



Brompton has 4 mast configurations, M and P are shorter,
but the bend is different in the middle.

The S and H are some what similar in height, but the H uses a M bar,
has a different bend ,
and has the hinge further up , so when folded, the taller bar,
riding position,
still will not hit the ground.


20" wheel bike friday bikes are a Mix of fold and knock down,
to pack down into a suitcase, to fly to tour locations.

The Tikit is their other bike type to get some market share of Brompton.
using the same 349 16" wheel .

but their fold is bigger, wider longer,
But they, folded, roll on the front wheel
The rear has a handle in it, in a position to hold onto , then.

cbike

Not always, see Brompton.

But yeah, that's one thing when considering another folder, especially when you demand fenders and racks.



Jimmy Rigged fenders just don't work.

fietsbob

Yea getting the Bike Friday comment additions in a Brompton thread ,
does get the subject a bit confused.
[ I edited in notification for those unclear, easily confused ]

Brompton front wheel turns under the front load,
Bike Friday has fork mounted racks so wheel wont turn as far..
Bags hit the frame at a certain angle. on sidewalk, walking..