chasm54

The issue in making a bike fit is the distance between the contact points. Seat, bars, pedals. If a mass-produced bike can be set up to get the relationship between those precisely right - and it can, for almost everyone - then really, the precise dimensions of the frame - a few millimetres here or there - are unimportant. Of course, if you re looking for a very specific "feel" that requires a particular geometry, wheelbase, trail, whatever, then yes, there may be advantages in going custom. But you'd have to be very clear about what you wanted, and why.

You're correct, I have never had a frame custom-built for me. I know several people who have, though. They all love their custom bikes but one of them, a vastly experienced racing cyclist, says his current Giant TCR fits him as well as, and is superior to, any custom bike he ever owned.

acidfast7

To be fair, I have custom suits, and I have suits from many different companies. I found a suit company that really fits me (Tiger of Sweden) and I don't get custom suits anymore. I think this whole "custom" bike thing is because people haven't tried enough bikes.

All of that aside, if one has 4k to spend ... I'd rather have a company that's made bikes that have traveled the world for 30+ years (Thorn and KM, especially, the TT not as much, but imagine an entire bike made with the precision of a Rohloff 14-gang hub) rather than one that "fits better."

For example, I had a very hard time believing that a custom bike builder could "better" a Tout Terrain frame. And, to be fair, the Tout Terrain is made in Europe where people have a working wage and 8 weeks vacation/year ... meaning it's not on a boat from SE Asia. You could argue that a custom may fit you slightly better, but with the options TT has available, I find that hard to believe.

The "custom" (single) touring bike is kinda like the SS phenomenon but for people with more money.

antokelly

i have a Thorn Sherpa touring bike, it took me quiet a while to get used to it mainly because i was used to riding lightweight road bikes (still do ) to be honest i reckon it would be hard to get a better fitting bike super comfy and does exactly what it's supposed to do .
i really don't think i could design a better touring bike than thorn's Andy Blance.

niknak

I agree to a degree. Yes, a builder's experience counts for a lot. They've built enough bikes to know what works. But bike frame design is fairly basic and rather standardized. The angles used don't vary by much and the materials incorporated have been around a long time, especially with steel. Even a newb frame builder can build a decent bike. I know because I've built a few and toured on them.

Going with somebody local seems like the best idea, unless you're really shopping for the best price. In that case I'd highly recommend Waterford in Wisconsin. They've been in the biz longer than pretty much any other American frame builder and their prices are good. You should also consider Gunnar, a Waterford offshoot, who will build made to frames. Waterford has or currently builds frames for rivendell and bruce Gordon. They know how to build touring bikes.

acidfast7

the difference between a serious touring bike and a wanna-be is the tiniest details.

perhaps we have different definitions of touring.

fuzz2050

If we can stretch this suit analogy further, while a custom bike may be a bespoke suit, you can get pretty close by getting a suit that fits you well (buying the right bike for your purpose), taking it to a tailor (in this case a bike shop, or maybe your garage, as the case may be) and having it altered to fit you better (having your bike altered to fit you better). The end result of the off the peg suit that's been altered to fit is damn near the quality of a bespoke suit, and in some cases even better.

Buying bespoke, whether bikes or suits (or probably other stuff as well), you are at the mercy of the frame builder or haberdasher; they have gotten to be where the are by having a very rigid philosophy and sticking with it. You usually end up getting the product that they want you to have, more than the product that you want yourself. The hardest part of something like this is finding that person with a compatible philosophy, who will deliver the bike you actually want.

niknak

With no intentions of being rude, what kind of tiny details separates a serious touring bike from a wanna-be using your definition of touring? Perhaps your response will help the OP decide the best builder for his custom frame.

Alekhine

Custom is not just about fit. It's about getting what you want, every variable. If you're a smart customer, you get to make choices, from braze-ons to oddities to materials. One of the reasons people love those old Rene Herse machines is that they were fully integrated by the builder, with frame design choices to accommodate components. A good custom builder can do similar things. I had mine built with the Rohloff OEM dropouts and cable guides, for instance. I could have ordered an oversized head tube ala Rivendell, but decided not to go that route. This was not an option on the ordering sheet, but if you know enough to ask them about it, they can and will accommodate you if they know what they're doing, though almost certainly at some extra cost. Also not on Mercian's ordering sheet was my choice of Reynolds 531 ST tubing, but they had it, and all I had to do was ask, so now I've got a bike with that steel. They cranked out the stays for wider tire clearance (still not as ideally as the LHT, though). Custom aesthetics, paint, decal placement come into play as well, though those who fall squarely into the pragmatic side of the spectrum would undoubtedly shrug this off. At any rate, I have a bicycle that is literally unique in the world. There is nothing exactly like it, it rides like a dream, and the design was substantially my own. It's also a serious looker.

That being said, ordering a frame remotely from two different bicycle manufacturers while giving them the same body measurements and indications of position does not ensure the same fit. My custom Bike Friday does not fit the same as my Mercian, though it was intended to be a folding version of the same touring bike idea. And by the way, they both fit great - just differently, giving slightly different riding positions. This is why I agree with whoever says that you can get an off-the-peg bike that fits you just as great. It's just true, and variable too. Again, if you're educated about what you want, you can give a good builder specs of your own, from angles to other changes, and if you want the most out of the experience, you should educate yourself about what you want. The more informed you are about what you want, the more you can get them to build "your" design. The less informed and specific, the more they will build their design.

I would also like to point out that I had a thoroughly different experience with Mercian than an earlier poster, who was apparently not very satisfied with his. I won't dispute his (her?) claims, but will offer a counter claim. For cost per value I consider Mercian just about the best option in the custom realm (for the primarily road tourist; there are better options for true adventure cycles, I think). My 2005 Mercian KoM is the crown jewel in my fleet, and it was constructed exactly according to my specifications, which were exacting and I'm sure something of a pain for the builder. It's absolutely beautiful and the ride is incredible. I had no such troubles with the shipped product either. The frame was fully wrapped up and arrived halfway around the world without a single problem. It took about 20 minutes for me to remove all the tape and wrapping.

DropBarFan

Haven't had a custom-built though I'm now building up a Surly Disc Trucker frame that Bilenky put S & S couplers on & repainted. East Coast doesn't seem to have many custom builders, Bilenky was closest one to DC. They seem like nice folks who spend the time to explain things plus they do all different sorts of bikes. If I had the $$ I'd get a custom steel or titanium frame with techno goodies like Rolhoff/Gates & disc brakes. Not ever having to clean chains seems sweet. Well anyway Bilenky is so close to you, that would obviate having to travel long distance for fitting & consultations & having to get the bike shipped.

bradtx

chefisaac, I've a few cycling friends that've had custom bikes built for them and oddly enough to me, none because of fitment. Those that had framesets built strictly for certain, basically minor features seem the happiest. One wanted to combine attributes of three different bikes into one. That actually didn't turn out quite as he'd anticipated.

The above were all road bikes and the Mercian was drop dead perfect both in delivering what the owner wanted and in craftsmanship. I've seen one club member's Bruce Gordon out on a break-in ride where I could really examine it and I felt was the equal in craftsmanship to the Mercian. These two perhaps had the most success with their customs. That both were in tune with the builder's philosophy certainly helped. Both were also able to communicate well with the builder. The last two sentences are perhaps the most important for lasting satisfaction.

Brad

corvuscorvax

I don't disagree (and this is typically the way I buy suits, in fact). As I mentioned in my original post, my particular motive for going custom was that a bike with the features I wanted simply didn't exist. I am of fairly normal proportion, and standard-size frames fit me pretty well. Even with all that, I find that my custom just disappears underneath me, even for long hours in the saddle, which is not an insignificant consideration for touring. It's almost like it was ... made just for me.

tmac100

Just saw this thread.

I have 2 custom builts: a diamond frame with 26' by 48 spoke wheels and S&S connectors. Indestructable. A folder with 20" wheels that TOTALLY FITS into a 20" by 20" by 12" box that also folds up to fit on the rear rack.
Each cost $3000 +

They fit my 6'5" frame and are very good.

You get what you pay for..

Built by Arvon Stacey in Tofield Alberta.

Sixty-fiver on the Folders forum works with Arvon.

Remember, I was so impressed that I had Arvon build the diamond-frame - and the folder about 5 years later...

base

I had a custom randonneur built about five years ago by Grand Bois. It turned out very well, but mainly because I didn't screw around with their standard design too much, just sized right for me with a few small customisations.

The main thing is knowing exactly what you want. Until you have enough experience to get a very clear picture of exactly what you want in a custom bike, don't bother as you'll be wasting your money. Experiment with lots of different off the shelf stuff until you get a setup you really like, then get it built as a custom if you can't quite get what you want.

And I don't know why people here are mentioning Thorn, they aren't custom.

Chris Pringle

Yeah, I'm wondering the same thing! Thorn and Tout Terrain simply make high-end touring bikes, but they only come in a number of specific sizes to start with. Tout Terrain, for example, gives you four different sizes to choose from. Yes, both brands are very nice top-shelf bikes, but I'm sorry, they are far from being considered "custom" the way we understand it in North America. These manufacturers will not alter their framesets in any way. Yes, they will work with you on most features (components and accessories), but these manufacturers have already decided what THEY think works best for their customers in regard to frame geometry. Ask Tout Terrain or Thorn if you can have slightly longer/shorter chainstays or top tube, or a different trail/rake on their fork. How about a different type of tubing for a heavy set customer? Will they give you a derailleur hanger on the rear dropout of the TT Silkroad or Thorn Nomad in case you ever wanted to switch to a good ole derailleur? Oh, how about pegs for a nice frame pump? Won't happen! If I'm forking out a big chunk of money like these bikes command, I think it makes complete sense to use a reputable local framebuilder that works with you considering all these inputs. Furthermore, I don't see the need to import a German, British or Italian bike while we are already enjoy top-notch custom bike framebuilders in the USA and Canada (many of them have produced frames for decades.) Same thing goes if you live in Europe - go with what you've got locally which will significantly facilitate communication on such a project. The ultimate goal with going "custom" is producing a bike that fits the customer like a glove with all the inherent frame features (materials, geometry, braze-ons, etc.) plus components and accessories that meet exactly the customer's demand.

acidfast7

FYI:

TT will add braze-ons/pump holders wherever you want for a surcharge of €249. In addition to custom paint or whatever else you want.

You could make the argument that the frame sizes are general and/or limited but the number of options you have a TT is almost unrivaled.

For example, they make their own:

Luggage system for alternative front suspensions:



and their own recharging systems:



To me, that's much more custom than a few mm in chainstay length here or there ... plus all of their stuff is globally tested, it's not a few wanna-be OCC guys. In essence, these guys are engineers not welders.

fietsbob

Although, peter white, apparently jumped in with the dealership for North America.

so factory add ons, then shipped to NJ may put you in conflict with that agreement,
so overseas pickup may be required..

his stocked Silk Roads and Grand Routes seem outfitted well thought out as it is
(26 & 700c wheel versions]

Co Motion in Eugene is a rival and as they are a domestic company , easy to talk to and get
in a few selected dealerships .. their Tandems sell well
and they make many nice touring singles

acidfast7

well, that sucks for the NA consumer. i've heard that his prices are inflated, but his configs to look really nice.

i also bet if one took a trip to Freiburg, you could ask them nicely and they'd add a derailleur hanger for you for €250 or so, just like the custom braze-ons/pump holders.

chefisaac

Soory it took a while to get back to this thread.

The question has been asked "why a custom bike"? and this question is totally valid.

Though I am not 100% sold on a custom bike, I would like to keep that option open. Right now I have a mountain bike I commute with and a road bike I do long distance on and they are OK and think they fit as well as I can get it even with a pro fit.

I am a tall and big guy and that is why I am looking into custom made bikes. Plus I would like to talk with someone (aka the makers) to see what they would recommend for add ons and such. I like the idea of the bike actually fitting me versus a force fit of off the shelf bikes.

I appreciate the recommendations of builders. I will be looking at the place in Philly first since it is in my back yard practically. I talked with the lady on the phone and she was asking the right questions. I am still VERY green when trying to answer them since I have no clue about touring per say.

fietsbob

I took several pretty long tours first, then had a few thoughts, riding for months,
on how I could make a few changes to the Bike frame design,
to experiment on , to change those characteristics.

I suggest getting a few tours under your Belt first , then drop the cost
of a reliable 1 payment Car on the project..

after having put in a lot of time in the saddle.