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  1. #26
    Senior Member Aushiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradtx View Post
    Andrew, I think it's been brought up before that the Ogre's seat tube design may not allow enough clearance to prevent heel strike with larger panniers.
    I was not aware of that possibility. I had assume it would be sufficient. Will look into that further as even though I have n Extrawheel Voyager I do want to be able to tour sans trailer.

    Thanks
    Andrew

  2. #27
    Senior Member Aushiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    I'm not sure about the original poster, but some of us are finding cyclocross clearances of 35c or so don't provide the tire width for adequate flotation on off-road portions of tours.
    Same here. 35 mm is really not going to do the trick for me.

    Andrew

  3. #28
    Senior Member Aushiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnome View Post
    What about a Singular Gryphon? It certainly should be doable to get a robust tourer/MTB that can take fat 29ers when you need to and skinnier tyres when you don't.
    Thanks. Will check them out. I haven't heard of them before.

    Andrew

  4. #29
    Senior Member Aushiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    FWIW you can just buy a 29er MTB [ala Felt, Redline,etc.]and add racks to it.
    still probably need a 29er Tire Mailed to You in some far flung corner
    that the 26" tires are already on bikes the locals ride.
    Not likely to tour in far flung corners so less of an issue

    Andrew

  5. #30
    Senior Member Aushiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcmkk3 View Post
    What about a Genesis Fortitude Adventure? .... I prefer the eccentric bottom bracket to the track dropouts for disc use. The only downside for me is the 135mm spacing on the fork will eliminate the possibility of a dynamo lighting setup.
    Thanks. Will look into these. Will need dynamo capability but.

    Andrew

  6. #31
    Senior Member Aushiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Pringle View Post
    It hasn't been brought up, yet. Although you are in Australia, Thorn Bikes in the U.K. is an excellent option. They focus both on off-road tourers with IGH, although I believe they only offer 26" wheeled models for worldwide touring. Some frames are featured with front suspension which may prove attractive for singletrack touring.
    Thanks. Forgot about Thorns. There are few around here. Will look into them as well.

    Andrew

  7. #32
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    the problem is that you are one of a fairly small group of people that are looking for this. Most people are pretty happy with sloping top tubes and large stand over distances. Not saying there is anything wrong with what you want, but it's not the style so you aren't going to get a mass market solution. Not sure if any of the smaller companies are building anything like this now, obviously you can get anything you want custom.

    The problem I have with a lot of these full-rigid 29'ers is that they have suspension corrected forks. This puts the head tube higher than I want it. I So I'm building my own frame -- with a slanty top tube, btw. it's pretty hard to find a 29'er fork that clears large tires and isn't suspension corrected. I thought about it so I didn't have to buy a jig to install disc brake bosses, but the forks just aren't out there unless you go carbon for big $.
    I've been giving this some consideration, and i don't think a canti post diamond frame bike in the cross/touring market that fits wider tires is that odd a request. Sure, a bike like this could go compact frame, just not to the extent the current off-road biased 29er frames that are out there.

    Look at the plethora of steel 'touring' and 'cross' bikes on the market. All of them fit "38mm wide with fenders" . A lot of these frames are being cross produced in the same factories in Asia.

    What's so radical in thinking there's untapped demand for simpler frames with 30mm more tire clearance? A supercrosscheck or frankencross or ninercross something of that nature would be a marketable hit. I think one of the reasons they aren't available are bikes aren't being 'jigged' (or whatever current bicycle mass production standards entail) that way in the factory.


    I Look at my 80's Stumpjumper in the garage and the tire clearances are huge, even with straight tubing seatstays.
    Last edited by Bekologist; 12-14-12 at 07:31 AM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  8. #33
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    Hmmmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by bradtx View Post
    Andrew, I think it's been brought up before that the Ogre's seat tube design may not allow enough clearance to prevent heel strike with larger panniers. The Fargo should be fine for what you want. Are there no AU made bikes available? A 29'r mountain bike frame with a rigid fork is much the same as a Fargo if available with eyelets for racks.

    Brad
    Hi Brad,
    link please - very keen to confirm if this is factual as the Ogre is high on my list.
    Knowing if this is a frame deficiency or an issue with a particular pannier rack would be most helpful. I've read up on quite a few Ogre threads both here and in other forums and have not seen this mentioned so am hoping you can help.
    Cheers

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aushiker View Post
    Thanks. Forgot about Thorns. There are few around here. Will look into them as well.

    Andrew
    I seem to remember their frames being somewhat heavy from comments in the bicycles.net.au forum.
    I'll try to provide a link and update this comment. I'm keen to see how they compare to the Ogre

  10. #35
    Senior Member corwin1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    I've been giving this some consideration, and i don't think a canti post diamond frame bike in the cross/touring market that fits wider tires is that odd a request. Sure, a bike like this could go compact frame, just not to the extent the current off-road biased 29er frames that are out there.

    Look at the plethora of steel 'touring' and 'cross' bikes on the market. All of them fit "38mm wide with fenders" . A lot of these frames are being cross produced in the same factories in Asia.

    What's so radical in thinking there's untapped demand for simpler frames with 30mm more tire clearance? A supercrosscheck or frankencross or ninercross something of that nature would be a marketable hit. I think one of the reasons they aren't available are bikes aren't being 'jigged' (or whatever current bicycle mass production standards entail) that way in the factory.


    I Look at my 80's Stumpjumper in the garage and the tire clearances are huge, even with straight tubing seatstays.
    Found this older thread while searching for opinions on the Fargo vs the Ogre. Have you seen the prototype Camargue from Velo-Orange? Probably not exactly what you are looking for but it's closer than most.
    Currently riding a 1983 Takara Highlander converted to a single-speed.

  11. #36
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    I've been looking for a bike with a traditional looking frame with clearance for 700c x 2.5" tires. Maybe even designed for drop bars. The singular peregrine is close and the rivendell bombadill and hunquapillar are closer. The 26" long haul trucker can take tires up to about 2.2" which is pretty good. That one is a lot like the mtbs of yore. The co-motion divide is pretty close too. There are some options out there that are really close but not quite it. A traditional, lugged?, 1 1/8" steerer, touring bike with big tire clearance. That would be fun.

  12. #37
    Senior Member corwin1968's Avatar
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    Final geometry for the Camargue is up. It's going to have more slope to the top-tube than I expected but I don't think it's going to be anthing like an Ogre or Fargo.

    http://support.velo-orange.com/#camargue.html
    Currently riding a 1983 Takara Highlander converted to a single-speed.

  13. #38
    The Left Coast, USA FrenchFit's Avatar
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    New offering from Traitor Cycles this year, the Slot http://www.traitorcycles.com/2013/Bikes_Slot.cfm?Token=

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    I'm not sure about the original poster, but some of us are finding cyclocross clearances of 35c or so don't provide the tire width for adequate flotation on off-road portions of tours.

    Speaking for myself, I've ridden thousands of gravel and dirt paths on mid-width 700c tires, but find they really underperform in the soft and sandy. My personal desire for a bike is simply a traditional framed bicycle that can take fat "29'er" 700c tires and this is, extraordinarily, impossible to find 'off the peg' from ANY of the go-to bicycle manufacturers known for offering refined steel framesets to proletariat yet discerning riders.

    The question I ask is this - is it somehow no frame manufacturer offers as stock frames a true all-road bike with tire clearances like a 1980's stumpjumper? This Attachment 287768 is pretty much what I'm looking for, but in 700c and modern threadless so i can set it up with 31.8 drops.

    No offense, i love the bikes and ride Surlys extensively, but fatties fit fine (not the 29'er frame clearances) kind of underdelivers.
    I'm kind of confused here. The Surlys' not fitting the bill? What size tires are you looking to run? Drop bars? I can fit 2.4" x 29" tires on my Karate Monkey with 35 mm rims. The Krampus can fit 3" Looked at any hardtail 29er mt bike? most can fit 2.2 at a min. in the rear.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Pringle View Post
    ^^^^


    EDIT: Jan Heine, a strong proponent of 650b has written extensively about the tire size topic and how they perform. In short, he states that 700c works adequately up to 32mm tires, 650b up to 42mm tire and above that he recommends using a 26" tire. This is obviously for on-road performance. Given the issues MTB frame designers are facing, I suspect these metrics must not be too far off for off-road performance.
    That makes sense. Once a person starts looking at fat tires carrying unsprung touring weight wheel and tire weight goes up a lot for a similar level of durability.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    That makes sense. Once a person starts looking at fat tires carrying unsprung touring weight wheel and tire weight goes up a lot for a similar level of durability.
    Unless you're 6'4" and like a cushy ride, like me.

  17. #42
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    main triangle bag + stuff sacks .. across the bars ,and Tied behind the saddle will work ..

    off pave' you can use the fat 29er knobbies..



    It hit 40C again this summer, down there?

  18. #43
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    Well I bought myself an Ogre and can report I've found no issue with heel strike and panniers.
    I utilise a Tubus Cosmo/Nova combo and Ortlieb Roller Classics front and rear with a 31 liter rack bag and Ultimate 5 handlebar bag (both Ortlieb).

  19. #44
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Surely Australia has a few frame builders , the frame is something one at a time works OK,

    components are the part that needs a mass production behind it.

  20. #45
    Senior Member enigmaT120's Avatar
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    rifraf, what's that rear hub? That's a good-looking setup.
    Ed Miller
    Falls City, OR
    1993 Rocky Mountain Fusion
    2012 Fargo 2

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigmaT120 View Post
    rifraf, what's that rear hub? That's a good-looking setup.
    Thank you,
    I went with a 14 speed Rohloff to see what all the fuss was about as well as, being lazy, wanting a lower maintenance solution.
    Front hub is a Son28 which charges my Edelux headlight, Philips Lumiring tail-light and with my E-werk and cache battery, I can keep my phone and Edge 800 topped up.
    I utilised Sapim CX-Ray spokes and Dyad rims in an attempt to keep control of the builds spiralling weight.
    A week ago I finished a months tour of the southern coast of Western Australia and found no real problems with my setup.
    I had a front pannier slap my bb7 calliper which then needed adjustment (and I changed the angle of my pannier rack as well as my front Roller Classics "lower stay" position).
    I had my non drive side Thorn crank come slightly loose which a half turn of the crank bolt has seemed to fix.
    It manifested as a click in the left hand pedal.
    Oh.... The Rohloff is heavy and somewhat embarrassingly noisy, especially in coasting in gears above 7 (8+)
    but my particular peeve is that the cranks slowly turn when pushing the bike.
    Uphill when your on the soft shoulder of a road with lots of deep gravel, your concentration can wander ending you up with a dig in the calf muscle to get your attention.
    No further issues apparent at this stage.
    Last edited by rifraf; 04-17-14 at 07:55 PM.

  22. #47
    Senior Member enigmaT120's Avatar
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    Maybe the hub will quiet down as it breaks in some more. Those look like flat handlebars, are they? You like them for long rides?
    Ed Miller
    Falls City, OR
    1993 Rocky Mountain Fusion
    2012 Fargo 2

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigmaT120 View Post
    Maybe the hub will quiet down as it breaks in some more. Those look like flat handlebars, are they? You like them for long rides?
    I can live with the noise and the other idiosyncrasies of the Rohloff as if its as long lived and low maintenance as its said to be, it'll suit me down to the ground.
    The handlebars are Titec J-bars which are a type of liciensed Jeff Jones cut Loop bar copy.
    I like em fine but will one day buy the originals which are slightly longer in length and subsequently offer more hand positions.
    http://www.jonesbikes.com/h-bar.html





    Last edited by rifraf; 04-18-14 at 12:23 PM.

  24. #49
    Senior Member enigmaT120's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, those are nice. I test rode a bike with them, it belonged to the owner of the bike shop who was setting his bike up for long mostly off road tours. Of course, all I did was laps in his basement course, but they felt good. I ended up finding an old Bullmoose bar for my Rocky Mountain and I like it a lot, too, but I think the H bars are nicer.
    Ed Miller
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    2012 Fargo 2

  25. #50
    Senior Member corwin1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
    I can live with the noise and the other idiosyncrasies of the Rohloff as if its as long lived and low maintenance as its said to be, it'll suit me down to the ground.
    The handlebars are Titec J-bars which are a type of liciensed Jeff Jones cut Loop bar copy.
    I like em fine but will one day buy the originals which are slightly longer in length and subsequently offer more hand positions.
    http://www.jonesbikes.com/h-bar.html






    That's a very nice set-up!! What size is your frame? I'm guessing an 18" (medium) but the sloping top-tubes make it hard to tell. Also, do you know your saddle height above the bottom bracket? The Ogre is on my short list of possible frames for my next bike.
    Currently riding a 1983 Takara Highlander converted to a single-speed.

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