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Old 12-08-12, 08:34 PM   #1
Aushiker
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29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

I am in the early stages of reviewing my bike fleet from four to two: a Velomobile and a diamond frame touring bike that will handle going off-road, e.g., Munda Biddi and the like but also can do road touring duties when I need to travel there first.

Anyway I am thinking of going down the path of a 29er and I am aware of the Surly Ogre and the Salsa Fargo (which I assume can be built with a flat bar handle bar) but are there other frames of similar ilk? Ideally it would be able to take a IGH and front and rear racks. I appreciate that the Salsa Fargo may not fit a IGH without a chain tensioner.


Salsa Fargo


Surly Ogre

Thanks
Andrew

Last edited by Aushiker; 12-08-12 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 12-09-12, 04:36 AM   #2
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I have a Fargo and love it for those purposes. I did a 5 day road tour this summer on it, I've ridden single track but never loaded for a tour. Another one to think about is the CoMotion Divide. The one I've seen came with an IGH and looked like similar geometry to the Fargo.
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Old 12-09-12, 06:27 AM   #3
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I'm in the same boat- there's a lot of sand where I'm at and a trad touring bike doesn't take wide enough tires.

I can't wrap my head around that 29er geometry in setting it up like a road bike, even though the salsa is specifically geared to be a drop bar bike. The CoMotion Divide is a nice frame, and the CoMotion folks state it was built as a touring platform, and pricier than the salsa or surly bikes.

I bought a cheap, more trad diamond frame 29er from Origin8 cx700 that I'm going to build up this winter. It looks like it will take a 2.4 inch tire and the frame is sized like a cyclocross bike. If it works out well i may get a custom diamond frame touring bike that can fit 29er size tires, as this geometry/tire clearance is seemingly nonexistant in the off the peg frame world.

If anyone knows of a diamond frame 29er without much of a sloping top tube, i'd love to hear about it.
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Old 12-09-12, 10:10 AM   #4
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I don't think you can really go wrong with either choice. I have known a few people with fargos who LOVE them, have even seen a flat bar on one or two. I personally have a Troll which is basically a 26" version of the Ogre and I love everything about my bike. The two biggest selling points for me are the dropouts that make any set up possible and the massive amounts of tire clearance. The Troll claims 2.7's fit fine and it looks like that would be easy, the Ogre claims 2.5's which are very big for 29'ers.
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Old 12-09-12, 07:47 PM   #5
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The earlier Karate Monkeys (pre-top tube brace) had a pretty flat top tube.

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Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
If anyone knows of a diamond frame 29er without much of a sloping top tube, i'd love to hear about it.
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Old 12-10-12, 06:11 AM   #6
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Andrew, I think it's been brought up before that the Ogre's seat tube design may not allow enough clearance to prevent heel strike with larger panniers. The Fargo should be fine for what you want. Are there no AU made bikes available? A 29'r mountain bike frame with a rigid fork is much the same as a Fargo if available with eyelets for racks.

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Old 12-10-12, 07:56 AM   #7
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3rd, Xtrawheel, towed may work, with the big 700c tire.. resolves heel strike..

as would 'bikepacker' frame pack, no rear panniers setups ..

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Old 12-10-12, 08:03 AM   #8
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It hasn't been brought up, yet. Although you are in Australia, Thorn Bikes in the U.K. is an excellent option. They focus both on off-road tourers with IGH, although I believe they only offer 26" wheeled models for worldwide touring. Some frames are featured with front suspension which may prove attractive for singletrack touring.
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Old 12-10-12, 09:10 AM   #9
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I have a custom Independent Fabrications Steel Deluxe 29er hardtail that I fit with 35mm tires for road touring. It has braze ons for the rear Logo rack and I use a Swing on the front. I also use H-bars for more hand positions. Used it for the GDMBR in 2010. Can be built to accommodate and IGH.
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Old 12-10-12, 09:37 AM   #10
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I'm not sure about the original poster, but some of us are finding cyclocross clearances of 35c or so don't provide the tire width for adequate flotation on off-road portions of tours.

Speaking for myself, I've ridden thousands of gravel and dirt paths on mid-width 700c tires, but find they really underperform in the soft and sandy. My personal desire for a bike is simply a traditional framed bicycle that can take fat "29'er" 700c tires and this is, extraordinarily, impossible to find 'off the peg' from ANY of the go-to bicycle manufacturers known for offering refined steel framesets to proletariat yet discerning riders.

The question I ask is this - is it somehow no frame manufacturer offers as stock frames a true all-road bike with tire clearances like a 1980's stumpjumper? This is pretty much what I'm looking for, but in 700c and modern threadless so i can set it up with 31.8 drops.

No offense, i love the bikes and ride Surlys extensively, but fatties fit fine (not the 29'er frame clearances) kind of underdelivers.
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Old 12-10-12, 10:51 AM   #11
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^^^^
Interesting you mention this, Bekologist! There was recently an article in a magazine about 29er and tire clearance (can't remember the source.) They say this is the main reason why many manufacturers are now going for 27.5" designs to address this. I don't know why they have to reinvent the wheel when 26" addresses all these issues in regard to fat tires. Oh well!

EDIT: Jan Heine, a strong proponent of 650b has written extensively about the tire size topic and how they perform. In short, he states that 700c works adequately up to 32mm tires, 650b up to 42mm tire and above that he recommends using a 26" tire. This is obviously for on-road performance. Given the issues MTB frame designers are facing, I suspect these metrics must not be too far off for off-road performance.

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Old 12-10-12, 03:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
The question I ask is this - is it somehow no frame manufacturer offers as stock frames a true all-road bike with tire clearances like a 1980's stumpjumper? This is pretty much what I'm looking for, but in 700c and modern threadless so i can set it up with 31.8 drops.
the problem is that you are one of a fairly small group of people that are looking for this. Most people are pretty happy with sloping top tubes and large stand over distances. Not saying there is anything wrong with what you want, but it's not the style so you aren't going to get a mass market solution. Not sure if any of the smaller companies are building anything like this now, obviously you can get anything you want custom.

The problem I have with a lot of these full-rigid 29'ers is that they have suspension corrected forks. This puts the head tube higher than I want it. I So I'm building my own frame -- with a slanty top tube, btw. it's pretty hard to find a 29'er fork that clears large tires and isn't suspension corrected. I thought about it so I didn't have to buy a jig to install disc brake bosses, but the forks just aren't out there unless you go carbon for big $.
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Old 12-10-12, 03:29 PM   #13
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I love my Rivendell Hunqapillar. was designed specifically to be an all terrain touring bike. It is a pleasure to ride and takes whatever abuse you can give it.



Marc
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Old 12-11-12, 12:16 PM   #14
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I was looking a bit longingly at the Hunqapiller before I ended up buying my Fargo 2. It would have taken me another year to save up that much more money.
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Old 12-11-12, 04:44 PM   #15
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Had a Surly Ogre and can't recommend it enough. It's one of the most versatile bike you can have.
At the time I bought the Ogre I was also looking at the Fargo, but ended with the Surly for two reasons:
- Flat bars;
- Horizontal dropouts allowed for emergency singlespeed conversions or even an IGH.
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Old 12-11-12, 07:05 PM   #16
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What about a Singular Gryphon? It certainly should be doable to get a robust tourer/MTB that can take fat 29ers when you need to and skinnier tyres when you don't.
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Old 12-11-12, 07:28 PM   #17
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What about a Singular Gryphon? It certainly should be doable to get a robust tourer/MTB that can take fat 29ers when you need to and skinnier tyres when you don't.
I've got a Singular Peregrine. Paint's crap, other than that it's been great, and is pretty much exactly what you want, I think. I haven't toured with it, but I commute on it, with Ortlieb roller paniers. Handles that fine. mine's an Aline 8, which has also been nice.
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Old 12-11-12, 08:05 PM   #18
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FWIW you can just buy a 29er MTB [ala Felt, Redline,etc.]and add racks to it.
still probably need a 29er Tire Mailed to You in some far flung corner
that the 26" tires are already on bikes the locals ride.
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Old 12-12-12, 03:37 AM   #19
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What about a Singular Gryphon?
You can't mount a front rack on those forks, and even the rear rack mounts are not of a very good design
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Old 12-12-12, 11:32 AM   #20
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What about a Genesis Fortitude Adventure? It is one of the few 29er bikes to not have a suspension corrected geometry. It is built with a little nicer steel than most other possibilities and also should have all of the braze-ons you need for mounting racks or Salsa Anything Cages. It also comes as a frameset if you want to build up your own. I don't know if their are any distributors in your area, but I've heard that Genesis will ship directly if their isn't any availability otherwise. A Jeff Jones could probably build up pretty well also. I would imagine it with more of a bikepacking luggage setup than with racks, but it will take a low-rider front rack on the traditional fork version. I prefer the eccentric bottom bracket to the track dropouts for disc use. The only downside for me is the 135mm spacing on the fork will eliminate the possibility of a dynamo lighting setup.
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Old 12-12-12, 02:53 PM   #21
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The Genesis Fortitude Adventure seems like a nice bike, but it's limited to singlespeed or IGH
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Old 12-12-12, 08:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post

The question I ask is this - is it somehow no frame manufacturer offers as stock frames a true all-road bike with tire clearances like a 1980's stumpjumper? This is pretty much what I'm looking for, but in 700c and modern threadless so i can set it up with 31.8 drops.

No offense, i love the bikes and ride Surlys extensively, but fatties fit fine (not the 29'er frame clearances) kind of underdelivers.
Check out the Rawland Drakkar: http://gearjunkie.com/rawland-drakkar It has a lot of what you're looking for.
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Old 12-12-12, 09:20 PM   #23
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Check out the Rawland Drakkar: http://gearjunkie.com/rawland-drakkar It has a lot of what you're looking for.
not currently in production, but that's about it. a "road" bike with rim brakes that can take 700x2.35" tires. a little less slope 'compact' ing the frame dimensions would also be nice.
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Old 12-12-12, 09:44 PM   #24
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The Genesis Fortitude Adventure seems like a nice bike, but it's limited to singlespeed or IGH
One can get Shimano Hone RD to address that. Not in production anymore, but it's still easy to find it online. A rear wheel with 10 mm solid axle is required of course.
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Old 12-13-12, 08:36 AM   #25
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I have a Fargo and love it for those purposes. I did a 5 day road tour this summer on it, I've ridden single track but never loaded for a tour. Another one to think about is the CoMotion Divide. The one I've seen came with an IGH and looked like similar geometry to the Fargo.
Thanks for the feedback. The CoMotion Divide is way outside my price range I am afraid

Andrew
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