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Old 01-04-13, 05:56 PM   #1
mystrwizard
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Road drop bar brake/shifters with mountain derailleurs and cassettes? Sram or Shim

Im looking to build up a new road/touring bike for a person (me) with real sensitive knees and hilly area. I'm contemplating going with mountain cranks (42/28) with a cassette like a 12-36 in either Sram or Shimano. This would be on a road frame like a Soma Smoothie with drop bars. Trust me on this, i need hills to be real friendly to my knees and know this combination would do it, use to ride a mountain bike on the street and this gearing was great. Anyhow, will the Sram double tap brake/shifter or the Shimano 105 brake/shifters work with a compatible mountain derailleur and cassette?

Much thanks all!

Sincerely,

James
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Old 01-04-13, 09:11 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by mystrwizard View Post
Im looking to build up a new road/touring bike for a person (me) with real sensitive knees and hilly area. I'm contemplating going with mountain cranks (42/28) with a cassette like a 12-36 in either Sram or Shimano. This would be on a road frame like a Soma Smoothie with drop bars. Trust me on this, i need hills to be real friendly to my knees and know this combination would do it, use to ride a mountain bike on the street and this gearing was great. Anyhow, will the Sram double tap brake/shifter or the Shimano 105 brake/shifters work with a compatible mountain derailleur and cassette?

Much thanks all!

Sincerely,

James
Dont know 'bout SRAM, but the non-Dynasis Shimano derailleurs work with 105 STI brifters. An LX R/D (labeled as 9 sp) works well with a 12-36 cassette (10 speeds) and 105 brifters. The new Dynasis will not work. There was a RD and cassette for sale up on the Touring stuff for sale thread. (Wink, wink!).
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Old 01-05-13, 12:21 PM   #3
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Dont know 'bout SRAM, but the non-Dynasis Shimano derailleurs work with 105 STI brifters. An LX R/D (labeled as 9 sp) works well with a 12-36 cassette (10 speeds) and 105 brifters. The new Dynasis will not work. There was a RD and cassette for sale up on the Touring stuff for sale thread. (Wink, wink!).
Does it matter that the mountain crank has a different chainline (usually around 50) than a road crank (around 45)? Or, do you just need the mountain crank and the front derailleur to have the same chainline?
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Old 01-05-13, 03:21 PM   #4
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I don't know about the newfangled stuff but I am shifting 90's Deore LX with RSX road brifters, no issues at all.

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Old 01-05-13, 07:50 PM   #5
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Does it matter that the mountain crank has a different chainline (usually around 50) than a road crank (around 45)? Or, do you just need the mountain crank and the front derailleur to have the same chainline?
If you are asking me, my answer is "I dont know." I ran them with an FSA Gossamer double road compact 46-34.
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Old 01-05-13, 08:18 PM   #6
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For modern 10 speed systems, SRAM is the better choice. SRAM integrated brake/shift levers are able to shift the current 10 speed mountain derailleurs as they both use the Exact Actuation 1:1 cable pull. I'm assuming that is why Salsa uses SRAM on both their Fargo 2 and Vaya 2 models.
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Old 01-05-13, 08:32 PM   #7
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Shimano brifters work with Shimano MTB derailleurs, cranksets, and cassettes. I doubt that a road FD would work with an MTB crankset, though I haven't tried it.
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Old 01-05-13, 09:34 PM   #8
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Im looking to build up a new road/touring bike for a person (me) with real sensitive knees and hilly area. I'm contemplating going with mountain cranks (42/28) with a cassette like a 12-36 in either Sram or Shimano...

...Trust me on this, i need hills to be real friendly to my knees and know this combination would do it, use to ride a mountain bike on the street and this gearing was great.
If you have knee issues, would you consider lower gears? Although 28-36T is rather low, I would struggle on steep hills on this combination. Your cassette is fine, but a crank outfitted with a 24T or 22T cog would make a noticeable difference.
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Old 01-06-13, 12:32 PM   #9
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If you are asking me, my answer is "I dont know." I ran them with an FSA Gossamer double road compact 46-34.
The problem is running with a mountain crank. The mountain crank needs a mountain front derailleur. The mountain derailleur has a 66-69 chainstay angle. Road derailleurs, and hence I assume most road bikes, have 61-66 chainstay angles.

Using the FSA double worked because it was a road crank not a mountain crank like the OP would like.

My knowledge is all book knowledge. I have not tried combining road shifters with mountain crank in practice. I have only been researching because I want to do the same thing. I understand that Shimano may be conservative in what works with what, but it seems very difficult to get help and info on what will work.

Using a road shifter and front derailleur would seem to work with some triples that provide a wider range (eg 48/36/26) , but it is not easy to confirm for sure, and how low you can go.

I only did a little looking at SRAM, and it seems much more simple and possible, I personally preferred to stay with Shimano as my non-touring bike has Shimano, but the frustation may lead me to SRAM.

I am still researching and will post if find out more.
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Old 01-06-13, 01:22 PM   #10
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If you can live without the Front Derailleur being Indexed, and the shift lever being a Brifter.
any combination works with Friction shifting..

SRAM makes a lever without the Brifter mech in it,
http://www.sram.com/sram/road/produc...ed-brake-lever
add a bar end shifter on that side,
and you can keep the rear Brifter on the right side..
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Old 01-06-13, 06:35 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by mystrwizard View Post
Im looking to build up a new road/touring bike for a person (me) with real sensitive knees and hilly area. I'm contemplating going with mountain cranks (42/28) with a cassette like a 12-36 in either Sram or Shimano. This would be on a road frame like a Soma Smoothie with drop bars. Trust me on this, i need hills to be real friendly to my knees and know this combination would do it, use to ride a mountain bike on the street and this gearing was great. Anyhow, will the Sram double tap brake/shifter or the Shimano 105 brake/shifters work with a compatible mountain derailleur and cassette?

Much thanks all!

Sincerely,

James

As a matter of fact, I do have EXACTLY the 10 speed low gear system you are looking to build and it works smoothly and beautifully on my touring bike!!

DO NOT USE a mountain crank or the SRAM setup on the Vaya. Spacing is screwed if you don't use the SRAM and is super expensive. Why pay more when you can pay less for the same effect!

Instead, use a Sugino triple 110/74 and make it a double crankset using the middle chain ring and small and this will make it an easier setup to work on. I had a pair of nice Sugino 110/74 Super Maxy I had laying around so that's why I did. It's square taper but it works.

To make this setup work, you will need

Shimano 10 speed Tiagra shifters (2 speed front) or 105. I have the Tiagra version as it works and it came stock with my Masi
Shimano 10 speed Tiagra front double derailleur as it works with a smaller chain ring setup with a wider throw which you need for a triple crankset made to a double. It's not expensive anyhow. Do not get the triple version of this Tiagra. The Tiagra can do a bigger chain throw (more than 10T or even up to 15T difference fine)

Sugino 110/74 triple crankset or a stock Sugino XD-2 or XD600 and then just yank out the big chain ring (46T or 48T) and replace the middle with whatever you need from vueltausa.com.
5 chain ring bolts made for single speed crankset since the bolts are only used to secure the middle chain ring so the 10 speed chain won't rub against the longer stock bolts.
A bottom bracket for the triple crankset not double.

For the rear.

You can opt either for a 11-36SLX cassette (cheaper) or a 12-36 XT (more expensive), but to make this work, you will need to put a 9 SPEED rear long cage derailleur (Deore or LX work fine) and replace the stock B screw with a longer B screw bolt for Deore, but the Deore LX version does not need this longer bolt (mine is screwed all the way in). The length is available on Harris Cyclery website aka Sheldon Brown. With a longer B screw bolt, you can then wrap the chain nicely on that rear 36T without having the jockey wheel grinding the cog.

You will also need a Shimano 10 hyperglide speed chain. I use a Shimano XT 10 speed chain for this. Don't mix a SRAM 10 speed with this as it won't work. It has to be a Shimano type.

Then put it all together and voila, it works beautifully now. My low is 19" and my high is 100" perfect for loaded touring and thanks to the bike co-op, the whole upgrade from stock 50/34 and rear 11-28 to 39/26T and 11-36SLX only cost me $250 all parts (used and new) and labour incld. Nice to get most used parts to save costs!

Lastly, you need to watch out your chain stay and front derailleur setup as mine can only take 26T as 24T is too small that makes the front derailleur drop too low for good shifting for some CX road frame. I figure that the gear inches difference between 24T and 26T isn't a big deal.

Last edited by pacificcyclist; 01-06-13 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 01-06-13, 07:03 PM   #12
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Does it matter that the mountain crank has a different chainline (usually around 50) than a road crank (around 45)? Or, do you just need the mountain crank and the front derailleur to have the same chainline?
This is a 44/32/22 mountain crankset with a 11-34. It works well with Shimano Tiagra shifters. The Tiagra FD is one of the most versatile derailleurs around. It works well with small chainrings.

I have used this set up on several bikes and used a 103 mm bottom bracket to pull the chainline in.

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Old 01-06-13, 08:48 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by jcmkk3 View Post
For modern 10 speed systems, SRAM is the better choice. SRAM integrated brake/shift levers are able to shift the current 10 speed mountain derailleurs as they both use the Exact Actuation 1:1 cable pull. I'm assuming that is why Salsa uses SRAM on both their Fargo 2 and Vaya 2 models.
As a packaged system, the answer is yes. However in terms of cost, the Shimano 10 speed can be setup for mountain gearing if you are talking about a 2x10 system. The key is the Tiagra FD and the Deore 9 speed rear derailleur which allow a 2x10 system to work with a 110/74 triple crankset as a double. Shifting is buttery smooth.
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Old 01-06-13, 08:55 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by tastest View Post
The problem is running with a mountain crank. The mountain crank needs a mountain front derailleur. The mountain derailleur has a 66-69 chainstay angle. Road derailleurs, and hence I assume most road bikes, have 61-66 chainstay angles.

Using the FSA double worked because it was a road crank not a mountain crank like the OP would like.

My knowledge is all book knowledge. I have not tried combining road shifters with mountain crank in practice. I have only been researching because I want to do the same thing. I understand that Shimano may be conservative in what works with what, but it seems very difficult to get help and info on what will work.

Using a road shifter and front derailleur would seem to work with some triples that provide a wider range (eg 48/36/26) , but it is not easy to confirm for sure, and how low you can go.

I only did a little looking at SRAM, and it seems much more simple and possible, I personally preferred to stay with Shimano as my non-touring bike has Shimano, but the frustation may lead me to SRAM.

I am still researching and will post if find out more.
You can somewhat get away with the chainline if you go with a 2x10 system which is what the OP plan on using. I have the exact system the OP wants working on my CX bike 100%. The bike shop who helped me put this together was surprised it worked. I heard more people are going for my setup because it is cheaper than SRAM because most CX bikes come with Shimano 10 speed brifters. I saw this setup used by with 9 speed this summer on 2 touring bikes when I was on tour with a 2x10 system. The key is the Tiagra FD and Deore rear which work really well with mountain gearing and they are not expensive by any means.
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