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  1. #1
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    Handlebars: which are these? Butterfly advice.

    Hello,

    I currently have riser bars (around 5°) with cow horns. I ride >80% of the time in the cow horns when touring/on the road, and use the "flat" portion when in town.

    But: I find that they don't sweep back enough to my taste, and that they are too large (yes, I can and will chop them a little).
    After months of looking at handlebars, I think I see few candidates:

    Surly Torsion (15° flat bar)
    Surly Open Bar Flat (53° flat bar)
    Soma Odin (akin to Surly Torsion but I'd prefer the Torsion)

    While these bars sound good, I don't think I could find cow horns that would maintain a good position (they would point outward, not inward). If you know of any I'll really appreciate! A single hand position really frightens me, I know I'll feel the need to move them.

    The other option is butterfly handlebars.
    Unfortunately it seems that the portion where you mount the brake levers is totally flat/straight on nearly all of them. So it doesn't suits me either!

    Yet I found a photo of these:

    in
    http://cyclingeurope.org/2010/04/

    It would seem that these handlebars have swept back flat portions. I would really love to buy such handlebars, but can't find any reference! Would seem they were shipped on Santos Travelmaster 2.6 Alu...

    They don't look like Modolo Yuma - nor traveller (that seem straighter) nor mohican (which mount the other way) but hard to tell on photos, and it seems like there are (were) several different Yumas.

    Looking at Modolo's site, there also is the Mundo - very adjustable, but a bit of a truck and I fear that angling them 15° would cause the "horns" part to face outward.

    Looking at SJS, I also found the Humpert AHS Premium
    http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/humpert-a...amp-prod24407/
    Looks like a nice concept too, but the standard seems better:
    http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/humpert-a...amp-prod24411/

    These would be a 12° flat bar, in 510mm or 580mm, with butterfly horns - that you could, like any horns, angle up or down independently. Expensive but seems good. Now is 12° enough... was targeting more, but guys at Humpert/Ergotec seem to know a bit about bike ergonomics...

    What would be your advice?
    Thanks,
    Nicolas
    Last edited by NeoY2k; 01-06-13 at 08:36 PM.

  2. #2
    Curmudgeon Wil Davis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoY2k View Post
    Hello,
    …snip
    What would be your advice?
    I bought some "butterfly" bars from Nashbar (back in 2005, the last time I was getting into the "biking" cycle (with me it seems to be about every 5 or 10 years); here are some pics of my Nishiki "Cascade": Yellow Peril. As you can see I changed the configuration, and currently the bars slope upwards, and I added a longer stem. The only advice I have is for you to try playing around with the configuration until you find something you like! You might want to leave the taping until you've settled on the final config.

    HTH -
    - Wil
    "………………………" - Marcel Marceau

  3. #3
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    See if you can find a Modolo Dumbo, They were quite adjustable .. Looks like SJS Stock list is currently Zero.

    they are 3 U shaped pieces the center one and 2 wings with CNC machined clamps to Join them

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    Thanks; regarding the Modolo Dumbo, does someone knows the angle? I mean, if it is 90°, and I angle the front portion 15° or so, the lateral side will be outward facing.

    Sure trying solutions until one works is needed; but you'll have a hard time finding butterfly handlebars in France, and I know I don't want "perpendicular-to-top-tube" portions - and THAT greatly reduces the availability of handlebars. Otherwise I'd already have ordered one.

    Does anyone knows the model of the one I put a photo of?

    Thanks,
    Nicolas

  5. #5
    Real Men Ride Ordinaries fuzz2050's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoY2k View Post
    Sure trying solutions until one works is needed; but you'll have a hard time finding butterfly handlebars in France, and I know I don't want "perpendicular-to-top-tube" portions - and THAT greatly reduces the availability of handlebars. Otherwise I'd already have ordered one.

    Does anyone knows the model of the one I put a photo of?

    Thanks,
    Nicolas
    I had the exact same debate as you, I like a lot of sweep in my handlebars, but wanted more hand positions than could be offered by standard swept back handlebars. I also found that photo, or at least one close to it, and tracked it down to Santos Bikes, a Dutch company selling trekking bikes. After a series of emails with a representative, I learned that they were custom made, and while I was offered one for sale, shipping was prohibitively expensive.

    If you can stomach the shipping costs (close to $50 I think), or live more locally, you can try emailing them, otherwise, you should pursue a different approach.

  6. #6
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Restate: the angle is Adjustable.. the 3 pieces of tubing.. 1, 25.4, 2 , 22.2. those 3 U shaped pieces
    are each bent twice to a 90 degree angle.. then heat treated..

    but as they are separate parts , joined by the double clamps that join them.
    they are free to be rotated to a variety of angles and heights..
    and the central piece that the other 2 attach onto, is angle adjustable in the stem.

  7. #7
    Real Men Ride Ordinaries fuzz2050's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Restate: the angle is Adjustable.. the 3 pieces of tubing.. 1, 25.4, 2 , 22.2. those 3 U shaped pieces
    are each bent twice to a 90 degree angle.. then heat treated..

    but as they are separate parts , joined by the double clamps that join them.
    they are free to be rotated to a variety of angles and heights..
    and the central piece that the other 2 attach onto, is angle adjustable in the stem.
    I think the problem with the Dumbo is that while the angle between the three pieces is adjustable, the 'U's all have 90 degree bends. If one were to angle the outer 'U's back substantially, then the bottom curve of the 'U', which on a normal trekking bar is a perfectly usable and very nice position, would be canted outwards at a really awkward angle.

    You also might want to consider something like the Titec H-Bar. It offers a bar with strong sweep and a variety of hand positions. You can also kludge together something similar with a few bar ends, if you just want to get a feel for it, but the transitions aren't going to be as nice.

  8. #8
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    Have you looked at these: http://www.jonesbikes.com/h-bar.html

  9. #9
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Anyhow the now $20 ones are a cheap trial , in the mean time..

    The figure 8 bend is what i Use..

    there are these, a NL company
    http://bbbcycling.com/bike-parts/handlebars/BHB-30..

    while in searh of the perfect they are fine.. to ride rather than websurf.
    Last edited by fietsbob; 01-21-13 at 12:41 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzz2050 View Post
    I had the exact same debate as you, I like a lot of sweep in my handlebars, but wanted more hand positions than could be offered by standard swept back handlebars. I also found that photo, or at least one close to it, and tracked it down to Santos Bikes, a Dutch company selling trekking bikes. After a series of emails with a representative, I learned that they were custom made, and while I was offered one for sale, shipping was prohibitively expensive.

    If you can stomach the shipping costs (close to $50 I think), or live more locally, you can try emailing them, otherwise, you should pursue a different approach.
    Super! Thank you. I read that it was shipped on Santos bike, but that they are custom made explains pretty well that I never could find the model!
    Will contact them, Netherlands to France is closer and maybe going thru my LBS (which is run by a friend) might make things even simpler/cheaper.

    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Anyhow the now $20 ones are a cheap trial , in the mean time..

    The figure 8 bend is what i Use..
    ???

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Restate: the angle is Adjustable.. the 3 pieces of tubing.. 1, 25.4, 2 , 22.2. those 3 U shaped pieces
    are each bent twice to a 90 degree angle.. then heat treated..

    but as they are separate parts , joined by the double clamps that join them.
    they are free to be rotated to a variety of angles and heights..
    and the central piece that the other 2 attach onto, is angle adjustable in the stem.
    Thank you for the 90° informations. That puts them out of competition for me, for the reason fuzz2050 perfectly explained:

    Quote Originally Posted by fuzz2050 View Post
    I think the problem with the Dumbo is that while the angle between the three pieces is adjustable, the 'U's all have 90 degree bends. If one were to angle the outer 'U's back substantially, then the bottom curve of the 'U', which on a normal trekking bar is a perfectly usable and very nice position, would be canted outwards at a really awkward angle.
    Plus these clamps allow the "wings" to rotate only around the tubes - of the center section and of their their own. But no "scissor-like" axis. So it will always interfer with other clamps angles. But yeah, I'd guess you can obtain pretty much what you're looking for, even if a tad complex.

    I had a better look at Humpert/Ergotec's website and they have an incredible collection of absolutely wonderful handelbars - don't think I ever seen such collection. I highly recommend anyone to give them a look, for whatever bars they might need: they have so many variations of angle, lenghts, etc...

    Also had a better look at their adjustable "AHS" series.

    They have the fully adjustable "Premium" series with independently adjustable front-back angle, up-down angle of the wings (plus stem clamp rotation). You choose the wings shape (flat, short or long horns, butterfly).
    They only produce them in 600mm width, too much for me, and you can't shorten them due to their mecanism but I find the concept very interesting.

    They also have the "Basic": You choose the center section shape (only 12° but on riser or flat, 2 different lengths for flat), and the "wings" shape (flat, short or long horns, butterfly). Differents width with different combinations. And the horns are at an interesting angle. You can angle the wings up-down independently - but the center section is fixed by the one you choosed, and they "only" offer 12° angle for the center section.

    It might not be a bad angle though, so I'm considering these.


    Quote Originally Posted by fuzz2050 View Post
    You also might want to consider something like the Titec H-Bar. It offers a bar with strong sweep and a variety of hand positions. You can also kludge together something similar with a few bar ends, if you just want to get a feel for it, but the transitions aren't going to be as nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by marlowe View Post
    Have you looked at these: http://www.jonesbikes.com/h-bar.html
    Very interesting indeed. Very expensive too, but that does not dismiss them.

    So I'll contact Santos and it will be between the Santos, Humpert/Ergotec, and Jeff Jones.
    Still have to choose

    Thank you all,
    Nicolas

    Last edited by NeoY2k; 01-08-13 at 08:51 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoY2k View Post
    Hello, I currently have riser bars (around 5°) with cow horns....But: I find that they don't sweep back enough to my taste, and that they are too large (yes, I can and will chop them a little). After months of looking at handlebars, I think I see few candidates:... Nicolas
    OP; Ok you would like readers to compare what you have now to a short list of other candidates. Not meaning to offend, but you haven't given us any useful info on the current ones... can you provide a photo or a URL link or a make and model or something useful like that?

    Standing by to compare and contrast...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksisler View Post
    OP; Ok you would like readers to compare what you have now to a short list of other candidates. Not meaning to offend, but you haven't given us any useful info on the current ones... can you provide a photo or a URL link or a make and model or something useful like that?

    Standing by to compare and contrast...
    Thank you for your time but this topic was absolutely not about comparing what I have now to the others but, if you read the original post further, about availability of suitable cow horns for said candidates and specific reference of one butterfly handlebar (with some digression on other butterflys).

    Thanks anyway, waiting for a reply from Santos Bikes, will call them if I don't get an email back.

  14. #14
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Santos is a small custom level frame builder [German?], they bought the handlebars,
    not the maker of the bars..

    if that exact one is no longer made, got a plan B?
    I think the rear sweep matters less if the bars are not too far away.

    I use the front quarter more. on my ITM made bars.

    you speak of a shock absorbing grip as Important.. you are probably holding on too hard,
    and not keeping your elbows comfortably Loosely bent.
    Last edited by fietsbob; 01-21-13 at 12:48 PM.

  15. #15
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    Well, the plan B is Ergotec, they have a nice handlebar that would fit. But they are of the "forward type" butterflys, where the stem clamps in the middle of the bar.

    And I'm thinking that the "Santos" one would provide maximum vibration dampening on the part where the brake levers are, which makes sense to me: if I'm in need of more control and not reaching as much, it might very well be because the terrain is irregular. It is the reverse with the Ergotec. To be honest, I don't think it actually would be that much of a difference - but the price of Ergotec is very high, add a new stem and the fact that I fear that this adjustabilitly might become a reliability problem down the road, and I'll wait a little to first try to find the Santos one.

    I was at the french bicycle touring festival yesterday, and could see some Ergotecs and others used by small manufacturers, I will call some of them, there must be someone able to get me these. The shortest Ergotec seems to suit me fine width wise. Still no news from Santos - nor from Ergotec I asked wether I could chop some length of their bars, which now doesn't appears needed.

    Thanks,
    Nicolas

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    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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