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Old 01-06-13, 10:33 PM   #1
Ebedeley
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Touring bike suggestion

I recently started a thread on a Riv for a commuter bike. But, I think I need to plan out what qualities I need, like and don't like on a bike. I plan to do commuting of 35 miles round-trip and the occasional light tour. Though my budget is adjustable, ideally I'd like to spend no more than $1200 for a complete bike. Currently I have a 1983 620 that I'm unsatisfied with because it does not offer me the ability to run fat tires in addition to the lack of braze-ons.

What I need on a bike:
Fat tires no less than 32.
Triple crank
Fenders
Rack
Braze-ons (water bottle bosses, dropouts, mid fork, rear rack)

What I like on a bike:
700c wheels
Quill stems
Lugs
Dynohub light setup
Relaxed geometry
Canti-brakes

What I don't like on a bike:
Aggressive geometry
Threadless stems (I don't hate it, but don't like the look)
Skinny tires on a touring bike

I've flirted with the idea of having one of these bikes;
Raleigh Alyeska
Heron Wayfarer
Trek 720
Sam Hillborne
Surly LHT(though I have to get past threadless and lack of lugs)

Any suggestions to other bikes, like vintage models?
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Old 01-07-13, 02:07 AM   #2
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What is available close to home? It's benefitial to establish a good relationship with your local bike shop.
If you live in a city there will be several to choose from. If you live in the country, mail order, or web shopping works well, but without the personal touch.

I like Marinoni bikes. A couple of friends ride them. I ride a Cannondale t1. It is nice but no longer made.
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Old 01-07-13, 04:49 AM   #3
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Ebedeley, Well, something like the Windsor Touring bike fits most of your likes. You'd have to add the Dynohub and some faux lugs. Otherwise it's a custom frame or the used bicycle market as I'm not aware of any off-the-rack modern lugged frames.

Brad
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Old 01-07-13, 05:47 AM   #4
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I have a Windsor Tourist and I find it to be a great bike bridging touring and commuting. You would be well under your budget after dressing it up to your liking with racks and fenders and panniers.
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Old 01-07-13, 07:18 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebedeley View Post
IThough my budget is adjustable, ideally I'd like to spend no more than $1200 for a complete bike.
Must be highly adjustable if you are looking at an SH. The frame alone would is more than $1,200.

BTW..Is Heron up and running again? It's web site sure isn't:

http://www.heronbicycles.com/
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Old 01-07-13, 08:30 AM   #6
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Get the Sam.
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Old 01-07-13, 08:56 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebedeley View Post
I recently started a thread on a Riv for a commuter bike. But, I think I need to plan out what qualities I need, like and don't like on a bike. I plan to do commuting of 35 miles round-trip and the occasional light tour. Though my budget is adjustable, ideally I'd like to spend no more than $1200 for a complete bike. Currently I have a 1983 620 that I'm unsatisfied with because it does not offer me the ability to run fat tires in addition to the lack of braze-ons.

What I need on a bike:
Fat tires no less than 32.
Triple crank
Fenders
Rack
Braze-ons (water bottle bosses, dropouts, mid fork, rear rack)

What I like on a bike:
700c wheels
Quill stems
Lugs
Dynohub light setup
Relaxed geometry
Canti-brakes

What I don't like on a bike:
Aggressive geometry
Threadless stems (I don't hate it, but don't like the look)
Skinny tires on a touring bike

I've flirted with the idea of having one of these bikes;
Raleigh Alyeska
Heron Wayfarer
Trek 720
Sam Hillborne
Surly LHT(though I have to get past threadless and lack of lugs)

Any suggestions to other bikes, like vintage models?
I've been a recovering Petersen acolyte for a while so I recognized the rhetoric. I have a number of Rivs and love them all, but there are plenty of excellent bikes available that dont meet the strict Riv design philosophy. Don't rrstrict yourself, you'll miss out on a lot. I'd ease up on the quill stem and lugs requirements and you'll have an easier time finding a great bike at a reasonable price.
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Old 01-07-13, 09:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nun View Post
I've been a recovering Petersen acolyte for a while so I recognized the rhetoric. I have a number of Rivs and love them all, but there are plenty of excellent bikes available that dont meet the strict Riv design philosophy. Don't rrstrict yourself, you'll miss out on a lot. I'd ease up on the quill stem and lugs requirements and you'll have an easier time finding a great bike at a reasonable price.
Or just buy used and save yourself even more money?
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Old 01-07-13, 09:26 AM   #9
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Bruce Gordon's touring bikes seem to meet your criteria, except for lugs. Check out the Rock 'n Road or the BLT model. The latter one is on sale.
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Old 01-07-13, 09:54 AM   #10
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Either the Windsor Tourist or the Fuji Touring (possibly the same bike with different labels) should fit 90% of your list. If you can look at the road and avoid looking at the stem, you can go to http://www.adventurecycling.org/feat...uyersguide.cfm and buy just about any bike there.

The two things you'll have to add yourself are fenders and lighting, unless you want to go full custom. DIY, with a production bike off the Adventure Cycling list, and you can get the full package from $2,000 or less without working too hard. Buy a full-up custom bike from a builder who will integrated everything on the list for you, and I'd be surprised if you can get it for less than $3,000.
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Old 01-07-13, 10:00 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebedeley View Post
...Though my budget is adjustable, ideally I'd like to spend no more than $1200 for a complete bike...

Any suggestions to other bikes, like vintage models?
$1200 means you need to forget about Rivendell, Heron, etc. You are clearly in LHT budget range, and a judiciously self-built or used one at that. Vintage models will give you lugs, but none will accommodate fat tires. I own several lugged and welded frames, and I can assure you that the tube joining method has no practical bearing in the use and enjoyment of the bike, rather it is the design (tube diameters and geometry) and sizing that matters.

I'll save you a lot of trouble and just tell you to find a Surly LHT in the right size. Go here and read about sizing before you do anything else:

http://www.rivbike.com/Articles.asp?ID=247

Bear in mind that dyno lighting costs >$300, racks+panniers >$300, kickstand, fenders, cages, bottles, mirrors and locks cost another $300, etc. Necessary accessories can more than double your total outlay over the cost of the bike itself.

Last edited by seeker333; 01-07-13 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 01-07-13, 11:35 AM   #12
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While I do feel like your budget is much too low for your design criteria, there are a couple of frames that come to mind. The Soma San Marcos and the Velo Orange Campeur.
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Old 01-07-13, 11:58 AM   #13
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As far as dynamo hubs go, from the research I did, the Shimano models that end in 70 or 71 (EDIT: Whoops! I meant or higher, those are old model numbers lol) etc. are the ones with less resistance. And there is I believe a Handspun wheel with a dynamo hub. And Busch & Muller is one popular name for dynamo lights. (I ordered my Busch & Muller lights from France at xxcycle.com.)

I don't know if building a bike with a Nashbar would be up your alley but that's a possibility for putting what you want on a bike. If you click on my username to see my previous posts, I already posted examples of a bike build (so you can make a list of parts to get).

Last edited by hybridbkrdr; 01-07-13 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 01-07-13, 12:46 PM   #14
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Take a look at the Soma Saga... you can get a frame set for about 425.00 with a fork. I am having 2 ordered for my son and myself, will build most of it up with some donor hybrids...
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Old 01-07-13, 02:02 PM   #15
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OK the lugs construction will be a big cost upgrade, since Waterford, Rivendale
and other small custom builders
will be the few to make them now, new.
since the Industry now has adopted Tig Welding to join the tubes..
and Production in Asia where hiring someone to do the welding costs less.

Look at Bruce Gordon, and accept the Upcharge to get a Lugged Frame as he
is now also using TIG.. unless you ask .. those will be US made Frames , Petaluma Cal
not the ones He got an Taiwan contract Builder to make, the BLT.
His Racks are of course perfetly mounted then

Of your short list only the Hillborne is not an import
from the contract manufacturers over there..

or see if you can find 80's Japan Made Specialized expeditions.
I had one and Bruce's racks, still use the racks..
I used to have one.. ran 32 wide tires back then.

Last edited by fietsbob; 01-07-13 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 01-07-13, 02:42 PM   #16
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I have a 1985 Trek 720 -- and it still runs with 27" rims. The Schwalbe Marathons (27 x 1.25) are noticeably larger/fatter than other 27 x 1.25 tires I've used, and there is enough clearance for fenders, but not much. 700c wheels might give more clearance -- some people have reported being able to lower the cantilevers to fit a 700c rim on the Trek 720.

The 720 is a wonderful, comfortable bike. But I was lucky and got mine for $120 or so at a bike swap. Ordinarily it would be hard to find one that at that low price, and updating the drivetrain (e.g. getting rid of the Helicomatic hub in the rear) will cost some money. But keep your eyes peeled.
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Old 01-07-13, 02:46 PM   #17
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Soma San Marco seems to come closest to your specs. If you would be willing to use a threadless headset/stem, then either the Salsa Casseroll or Salsa Vaya would be great options. Another option would be to look for an old Japanese sport touring frame, like a Miyata 1000 or 600, but that would be hit or miss.

I've got several bikes that meet your specs but not your price point. The closest would be my Bob Jackson World Tour, which I ordered direct from England several years ago (frame and fork). Price was about $600 for frame and fork at that time but they've gone up in price a lot since then. I've also got a Waterford RST-22 and Gunnar Sport that I bought used for very reasonable prices, but new ones would be well beyond your price range.

BTW, I have a 56 cm Salsa Casseroll frame, fork and front rack that I would sell for a very reasonable price if interested. I used it as my main commuter for a couple of years, as well as light touring, but replaced it with the Gunnar.
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Old 01-07-13, 03:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebedeley View Post
I recently started a thread on a Riv for a commuter bike. But, I think I need to plan out what qualities I need, like and don't like on a bike. I plan to do commuting of 35 miles round-trip and the occasional light tour. Though my budget is adjustable, ideally I'd like to spend no more than $1200 for a complete bike. Currently I have a 1983 620 that I'm unsatisfied with because it does not offer me the ability to run fat tires in addition to the lack of braze-ons.

What I need on a bike:
Fat tires no less than 32.
Triple crank
Fenders
Rack
Braze-ons (water bottle bosses, dropouts, mid fork, rear rack)

What I like on a bike:
700c wheels
Quill stems
Lugs
Dynohub light setup
Relaxed geometry
Canti-brakes

What I don't like on a bike:
Aggressive geometry
Threadless stems (I don't hate it, but don't like the look)
Skinny tires on a touring bike

I've flirted with the idea of having one of these bikes;
Raleigh Alyeska
Heron Wayfarer
Trek 720
Sam Hillborne
Surly LHT(though I have to get past threadless and lack of lugs)

Any suggestions to other bikes, like vintage models?
Your best bet if you want to address most of your concerns with a budget of no more than $1200 would be to hunt down a Miyata 1000 LT touring bike with a nice triple crankset like the Sugino GP or Super Maxy forged Japanese made cranks! In fact, the same cranks are now on my new Masi CX touring bike! Can't beat old school good quality cranks compared to the cheap crap stuff unless you go higher end. Miyata high end lugged frames are not only lugged but also triple butted. It can be a little flexy with a heavier load, but you're not touring heavy loaded anyhow, so that's fine. Most of the time, the 1000LT goes for $500 to $700. You can go slightly lesser quality on the scale with the Miyata.

Here's a link of a sample Miyata 1000LT for sale on eBay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Miyata-1000-...item3ccdd8267f

This is one fine touring bike! I know, I used to love it to death!
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Old 01-07-13, 04:17 PM   #19
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You can probably get a good British Traditional Brand frame and fork like Mercian..
for the grand.. then later budget for the components
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Old 01-07-13, 04:57 PM   #20
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There was an earlier thread with a list of vintage touring bikes, but I can't seem to find it again. Anyway, here's a partial list:

Miyata 1000,610,615,210
Specialized Expedition (same bike as Miyata 1000)
Nishiki Cresta
Univega Gran Turismo, Specialissma
Raleigh Alyeska,Portage,Kodiak,Touring18
Cannondale T700 (not lugged steel, but legendarily nice for touring)
Bridgestone RB-T
Trek 520,620,720
Schwinn Voyager, Letour Luxe

Plus a whole bunch of others I can't remember. Panasonic, Fuji, Centurion, also made really good steel touring bikes in the '80s.

But remember, even if you get a vintage touring bike, it might still need a bunch of upgrades (700c wheels, racks, panniers, maybe gearing) before being fully tour-worthy. But I do love the look and ride of these old classics, and am willing to put up with a little fiddling to modernize them a bit. I have a 1984 Univega Gran Turismo (same as Miyata 610 of the same year) and a 1983 Raleigh Touring 18.

Here's the Gran Turismo, all dolled up with fenders and the original Avenir handlebar bag:

Last edited by cycle_maven; 01-07-13 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 01-07-13, 10:32 PM   #21
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The Salsa Vaya 2 or 3 look like very good value for money, around $1400 will get a complete bike and if you get last year's model it will be even less expensive.

The lugs and the quill stem don't impact the bike's performance, so drop those and look at the Vayas.......or maybe even a the good old Bianchi Volpe, that's around $1300 for a complete bike.
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Old 01-08-13, 09:20 AM   #22
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If you're willing to do work yourself at a co-op type shop, with a 1200$ you could likely upgrade any fine old lugged hybrid with quill stems and have all the braze-ons you could want and be able to run 38mm tires and fenders. Actually I'd just buy that miyata 1000 that is linked up there and with the rest of your budget you can get the dynamo set-up of your dreams and still have cash left over. Older miyata hybrids like the triple-cross are decent touring bikes in hiding too. I've seen dozens of different late 80s/early 90s hybrids that have most or not all the braze-ons of touring bikes and decent frames but the heaviest, cheapest parts they could find at the time.
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Old 01-08-13, 07:07 PM   #23
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If you're willing to do work yourself at a co-op type shop, with a 1200$ you could likely upgrade any fine old lugged hybrid with quill stems and have all the braze-ons you could want and be able to run 38mm tires and fenders. Actually I'd just buy that miyata 1000 that is linked up there and with the rest of your budget you can get the dynamo set-up of your dreams and still have cash left over. Older miyata hybrids like the triple-cross are decent touring bikes in hiding too. I've seen dozens of different late 80s/early 90s hybrids that have most or not all the braze-ons of touring bikes and decent frames but the heaviest, cheapest parts they could find at the time.
I agree with this. You could even find a sweet older Bridgestone so you would be getting an authentic Grant Peterson machine.
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Old 01-13-13, 01:33 AM   #24
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I picked up a Bob Jackson used touring bike for $510 this past fall that fits all of your criteria. Campy hubs and brakes, Ritchey triple crank. It is a little paint worn so no one wants to steal it either... Riding 28MM tires and fenders right now but seems to have room for 32s, although I have not tried to fit them yet. The $700 you save could go to fund your next tour!
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Old 01-13-13, 02:43 AM   #25
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If looks, lugs, price, and quill stems are important, used is a pretty good recommendation. Hilary Stone has a website with "new" old frames about every month and a half to 2 months or so, and while most are racing and track frames, the occasional classic tourer pops up there, and I'm pretty sure most would accommodate a tire with 32 width. Many are stunning in the looks and fancy lugs department, though often could use a repaint. Some of the Brits really went all out on ornate lug design.

There's a nice Ellis Briggs tourer from 1968 that still hasn't been sold, and while the lugs are pretty plain, at 195 ($314) it's quite the nice thing indeed if 56 cm happens to be your size. It was even updated with canti bosses. That would leave lots of room for your $1200 budget. Bob Jacksons and Mercians from all eras are pretty frequent visitors there.

http://hilarystone.com/images/sale%2...riggs-4622.jpg
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