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  1. #1
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    Will a 105 triple brifter work with an XT Rear Derailleur

    I'm listing this question on this forum, because it's basically about a touring component setup.

    I know little about Shimano, so please forgive a possibly dumb question. I am thinking of using 105 triple shifters and FD with a Sugino 46/36/24 crank and then an XT 9 speed RD with an 11-34 cassette. Would this work?

    I have a Campy triple with the Sugino crank and a 12/29 Campy cassette, and it works great. But I would like to go lower for a touring bike.

    Will the 105 work for this?

    I'm also open to any other thoughts or suggestions for ways to go to a 34 or 36 cassette with a brifter and the Sugino triple.

    Thanks a lot.
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  2. #2
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Of course the triple has only to do with the front D.
    Shimanos rears seem to work together Adequately.road and mountain from same eras.


    Minus the STI issues, with something practical like bar end friction shifting ,
    the Derrailleur just shoves the chain sideways.

    brifters as part of a STI group, using another RD longer cage, to wrap up more chain ,
    from a Shimano mountain bike set,.similar era, should be adequate.
    Last edited by fietsbob; 02-27-13 at 10:59 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Western Flyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris1548 View Post
    I'm listing this question on this forum, because it's basically about a touring component setup.

    I know little about Shimano, so please forgive a possibly dumb question. I am thinking of using 105 triple shifters and FD with a Sugino 46/36/24 crank and then an XT 9 speed RD with an 11-34 cassette.
    My bike came OME with this exact set up. The rear derailleur was a little touchy but was easy enough to keep indexed. I had more trouble with the 105 fd and the Sugino crank. I replaced the chainrings with Race Face and it worked better.
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    Thanks, Western Flyer.

    What were the chainring sizes on the Race Face crank? Were they the same as those on the Sugino?

    Also, what year 105 are we talking? I wonder if there is any chance it has improved since you got your bike.

    I guess I forgot to mention that I actually intend to use the Tiagra FD, not the 105, since I've heard the Tiagra is better for a triple. Does anybody have any ideas on that?
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  5. #5
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    AFAIK race face only makes 1 set of chainring sizes, their replacements just more
    of what the new crank ships with..

    STI lever goes thunk over CR, and thats It.

    friction levers re-adjust the FD cage after the shift. that is what I prefer.

    YMMV
    Last edited by fietsbob; 02-27-13 at 11:07 AM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Doug64's Avatar
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    I guess I forgot to mention that I actually intend to use the Tiagra FD, not the 105, since I've heard the Tiagra is better for a triple. Does anybody have any ideas on that?
    I played around with my road bike awhile back and put a 11-34 on it with a Shimano Deore rear derailleur. It is equipped with 105 components. The 105 front dearraileur worked well because I did not change the 52/40/30 crankset. The 105 shifters also worked fine. I only ran it this way for a short time before switching it back to the original 11-27 and 105 rear derailleur. However, I did put the Deore and 11-34 on another road bike equipped with Tiagra components, and it works well.

    I agree with most folks about the versatility of the Tiagra front derailleur. The Tiagra 4503 triple is getting harder to find. I just purchased one just in case I might need a replacement in the future. Chain Reaction Cycles in the UK @$26 pus $10 shipping. Still a pretty good deal, especially if this is what you really want.
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=21805

    We have 4 touring bikes in our family, all built up using the Tiagra 4503 front derailleur. All four of the bikes are running 44/32/22 cranksets, and the Tiagra works very smoothly. I can adjust the derailleur so there is no chain rub even while cross chaining (not-recommended) at both the high and low ends.

    This is the setup used on all 4 touring bikes: Tiagra 4503 FDs, Sugino DX 500-44/32/22 cranksets, LX rear derailleurs, XT 11-34 9 speed cassettes, Sram chains, and Tiagra shifters.


    PS. Jensen Cycles have a good deal going on the Shimano LX right now. I may also pick up one of these "just in case".

    http://www.jensonusa.com/Rear-Derail...ear-Derailleur
    Last edited by Doug64; 02-27-13 at 02:31 PM.

  7. #7
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    AFAIK race face only makes 1 set of chainring sizes, their replacements just more
    of what the new crank ships with..
    According to Race Face, their Race line of 9 speed rings comes in MTB Compact 94/58 - 20, 22, 32, 34, 42, 44, 46;
    MTB Standard 110/74 - 24, 34, 36, 46, 48; 4 Bolt 104/64 - 22, 24, 26, 32, 34, 36, 42, 44, 48
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    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    After market there are lots of alternate chainrings,in 7075 and 6061 ..

    being a friction shifter the steel ones work fine and last a Long time.

    Surly has stainless ones, but lack ramps and pins for the late shifter types and the klick shifting users.

    [I got a 38t Surly in 110bcd to use the m730 crank on my R'off trekking bike.]

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug64 View Post
    I played around with my road bike awhile back and put a 11-34 on it with a Shimano Deore rear derailleur. It is equipped with 105 components. The 105 front dearraileur worked well because I did not change the 52/40/30 crankset. The 105 shifters also worked fine. I only ran it this way for a short time before switching it back to the original 11-27 and 105 rear derailleur. However, I did put the Deore and 11-34 on another road bike equipped with Tiagra components, and it works well.

    I agree with most folks about the versatility of the Tiagra front derailleur. The Tiagra 4503 triple is getting harder to find. I just purchased one just in case I might need a replacement in the future. Chain Reaction Cycles in the UK @$26 pus $10 shipping. Still a pretty good deal, especially if this is what you really want.
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=21805

    We have 4 touring bikes in our family, all built up using the Tiagra 4503 front derailleur. All four of the bikes are running 44/32/22 cranksets, and the Tiagra works very smoothly. I can adjust the derailleur so there is no chain rub even while cross chaining (not-recommended) at both the high and low ends.

    This is the setup used on all 4 touring bikes: Tiagra 4503 FDs, Sugino DX 500-44/32/22 cranksets, LX rear derailleurs, XT 11-34 9 speed cassettes, Sram chains, and Tiagra shifters.


    PS. Jensen Cycles have a good deal going on the Shimano LX right now. I may also pick up one of these "just in case".

    http://www.jensonusa.com/Rear-Derail...ear-Derailleur
    This is exactly the gear range I'm looking for, Doug64. You say you are using Tiagra Shifters. Are those shifters 9 speed or 10 speed?

    I would actually like to use the newer Shimano shifters since I like their grip better. A general question I would have for you, and the knowledgeable people of this forum, is whether I need to get 9 speed triple shifters, or will 10 speed shifters work as well? I know there are 105's with the new grip, but they are 10 speed.

    I guess a more precise question is whether or not there is a Shimnao triple shifter with the new grip that would work well with the 9 speed RD and cassette?
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  10. #10
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris1548 View Post
    This is exactly the gear range I'm looking for, Doug64. You say you are using Tiagra Shifters. Are those shifters 9 speed or 10 speed?

    I would actually like to use the newer Shimano shifters since I like their grip better. A general question I would have for you, and the knowledgeable people of this forum, is whether I need to get 9 speed triple shifters, or will 10 speed shifters work as well? I know there are 105's with the new grip, but they are 10 speed.

    I guess a more precise question is whether or not there is a Shimnao triple shifter with the new grip that would work well with the 9 speed RD and cassette?
    You have some confused terminology. The 'triple' shifter works the front derailer. The '10 speed' shifter works the back. They are separate systems.

    The rear 10 speed road shifter will work a 7, 8, 9 or 10 speed road rear derailer without issues and it will also shift a 7, 8, or 9 speed mountain rear derailer without issue. The mountain bike derailers have a bigger range to deal with a larger rear cassette and the larger steps between the front chainrings. Road derailers may shift a 32 tooth cassette but they don't do it willingly.

    Notice that I left out mountain 10 speed derailers. Shimano in an utterly stupid move has decided to change things around so that the 10 speed rear mountain derailers work only with mountain shifters. I haven't seen any work arounds yet but, as far as I know, they just won't work.

    For front derailers, don't use mountain and STI. Some people say they can work but the road derailer is just easier to set up. I'd also suggest you go cheaper on the front derailer. The Tiagra front triple derailer is a much better triple derailer than 105 and above. It's more forgiving and has a better range...i.e. less rubbing issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    You have some confused terminology. The 'triple' shifter works the front derailer. The '10 speed' shifter works the back. They are separate systems.

    The rear 10 speed road shifter will work a 7, 8, 9 or 10 speed road rear derailer without issues and it will also shift a 7, 8, or 9 speed mountain rear derailer without issue. The mountain bike derailers have a bigger range to deal with a larger rear cassette and the larger steps between the front chainrings. Road derailers may shift a 32 tooth cassette but they don't do it willingly.

    Notice that I left out mountain 10 speed derailers. Shimano in an utterly stupid move has decided to change things around so that the 10 speed rear mountain derailers work only with mountain shifters. I haven't seen any work arounds yet but, as far as I know, they just won't work.

    For front derailers, don't use mountain and STI. Some people say they can work but the road derailer is just easier to set up. I'd also suggest you go cheaper on the front derailer. The Tiagra front triple derailer is a much better triple derailer than 105 and above. It's more forgiving and has a better range...i.e. less rubbing issues.
    Thanks for the advice, Cyccommute. I hear what you're saying.

    This is the setup I want to use: new model Shimano 105 triple shifter for front and 10 speed 105 shifter for rear, Tiagra front triple derailleur, Sugino 46-36-24 crank, XT 9 speed rear derailleur, and an XT 9 speed 11-34 cassette.

    From what I've read, this should work well. Is that correct?
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  12. #12
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris1548 View Post
    Thanks for the advice, Cyccommute. I hear what you're saying.

    This is the setup I want to use: new model Shimano 105 triple shifter for front and 10 speed 105 shifter for rear, Tiagra front triple derailleur, Sugino 46-36-24 crank, XT 9 speed rear derailleur, and an XT 9 speed 11-34 cassette.

    From what I've read, this should work well. Is that correct?
    You'll need to match the rear cassette to the shifter. If you are using a 10 speed shifter, you'll need a 10 speed cassette.
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  13. #13
    This is Shangri La MTBMaven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    You'll need to match the rear cassette to the shifter. If you are using a 10 speed shifter, you'll need a 10 speed cassette.
    I'm in a similar situation as the OP. Cyccommute, in an earlier post you said a 10 speed road shifter will work with 7,8,9 speed mountain rear derailleurs. Therefore couldn't the OP run the 10 speed 105 brifter with 9 speed derailleur and cassette? Our is it that the index spacing of the 10 speed shifter is designed to work with the spacing on the 10 speed cassette? And that the derailleur is just moving the chain around based on what the shifter tells it.


    Big bummer about the 10 speed mountain derailleur not working with road shifters. I picked up a used XT derailleur with hopes of using that with my existing Ultegra 10 speed shifters. I think I might just go with 9 speed barcons, mountain derailleurs and cassette. I have a new Velo Orange triple crankset I plan to use. I can just keep the Ultegra brifters but just use them as a brake lever to save a little coin.

    Also investigating ability of 10 speed bacon (Shimano SL-BS79) working with 10 XT rear derailleur.
    Last edited by MTBMaven; 03-02-13 at 12:16 PM.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member cyclist2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBMaven View Post
    I'm in a similar situation as the OP. Cyccommute, in an earlier post you said a 10 speed road shifter will work with 7,8,9 speed mountain rear derailleurs. Therefore couldn't the OP run the 10 speed 105 brifter with 9 speed derailleur and cassette? Our is it that the index spacing of the 10 speed shifter is designed to work with the spacing on the 10 speed cassette? And that the derailleur is just moving the chain around based on what the shifter tells it.


    Big bummer about the 10 speed mountain derailleur not working with road shifters. I picked up a used XT derailleur with hopes of using that with my existing Ultegra 10 speed shifters. I think I might just go with 9 speed barcons, mountain derailleurs and cassette. I have a new Velo Orange triple crankset I plan to use. I can just keep the Ultegra brifters but just use them as a brake lever to save a little coin.

    Also investigating ability of 10 speed bacon (Shimano SL-BS79) working with 10 XT rear derailleur.
    I use the 105 shifters 5600 10 speed and triple shifters and use a 10 speed cassette 11-32 with an XT rear derailluer. This works but be sure that you are not using the dyn-sys derailluers.
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  15. #15
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBMaven View Post
    I'm in a similar situation as the OP. Cyccommute, in an earlier post you said a 10 speed road shifter will work with 7,8,9 speed mountain rear derailleurs. Therefore couldn't the OP run the 10 speed 105 brifter with 9 speed derailleur and cassette? Our is it that the index spacing of the 10 speed shifter is designed to work with the spacing on the 10 speed cassette? And that the derailleur is just moving the chain around based on what the shifter tells it.


    It's a spacing issue. The 10 speed cassette fits on the same freehub as the 8 and 9 speed cassettes. To accomplish this bit of magic, the cassette manufacturers have to narrow the spacing and the cogs of the cassette. The shifter moves the cable a specific amount per click so it won't move it enough to shift a 9 speed cassette using a 10 speed shifter. It will clatter and ghost shift.

    Quote Originally Posted by MTBMaven View Post
    Big bummer about the 10 speed mountain derailleur not working with road shifters. I picked up a used XT derailleur with hopes of using that with my existing Ultegra 10 speed shifters. I think I might just go with 9 speed barcons, mountain derailleurs and cassette. I have a new Velo Orange triple crankset I plan to use. I can just keep the Ultegra brifters but just use them as a brake lever to save a little coin.

    Also investigating ability of 10 speed bacon (Shimano SL-BS79) working with 10 XT rear derailleur.
    It's only the 10 speed mountain rear derailers that have a problem with road shifters. If the XT isn't marked 'Dynasys', it will work with your Ultegra shifters and 10 speed cassette.

    Shimano changed the cable pull with the Dynasys system. I doubt that it will work with bar end shifters any better than it will work with STI. Both are based on the old cable pull.
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  16. #16
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    You'll need to match the rear cassette to the shifter. If you are using a 10 speed shifter, you'll need a 10 speed cassette.
    I just want to be clear on this. Does that mean that you cannot use a 10 speed 105 shifter with a 9 speed XT cassette?

    In other words, to use XT 9 speed you have to find old 9 speed road shifters?

    I thought I'd heard of people using 10 sp shifters with 9 speed XT but maybe I'm wrong.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Doug64's Avatar
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    I just want to be clear on this. Does that mean that you cannot use a 10 speed 105 shifter with a 9 speed XT cassette?

    In other words, to use XT 9 speed you have to find old 9 speed road shifters?
    In my experience this is correct. As cycocommute said, the shifter needs to be matched to the cassette.

  18. #18
    This is Shangri La MTBMaven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris1548 View Post
    I just want to be clear on this. Does that mean that you cannot use a 10 speed 105 shifter with a 9 speed XT cassette?

    In other words, to use XT 9 speed you have to find old 9 speed road shifters?I thought I'd heard of people using 10 sp shifters with 9 speed XT but maybe I'm wrong.
    Thank you Chris. I was thinking about the same questions earlier today.
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  19. #19
    This is Shangri La MTBMaven's Avatar
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    So I hear fSo I hear from a long time riding buddy he's running a 10 speed dynsys XT derailleur working with an Ultegra brifter on his Colnago.

    Update:Ok I'll pipe down now, http://m.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomm...hreadid=108979
    Last edited by MTBMaven; 03-04-13 at 09:25 PM.
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