CCgirl83

So did my shake down fully loaded and found that at some points mostly going into the wind and up hills I had a bit of knee pain.
What would cause it? I zoomed around town all the time with no issues but fully loaded brings it out.

Is it my seat to low?

Advice and suggestions is welcome, told to figure it out myself isn't.

fietsbob

Seat too low, maybe,* and or using too much force-strain ,instead of gearing Low enough..
stay on top of the gear ratio.. spinning with light force, rather than mashing with a great one..

* Heel on pedal, leg straight, so ball of foot over pedal axle, Knee bent.. a simplest description..

you are pushing yourself and the Luggage through the wind , and so have a bigger frontal area..

an other alternative involves going to the LBS and having someone seeing
bike fit, the way you set it up.

Which is not a Keyboard function..

chasm54

Where is the pain in your knee? Pain at the front of the knee can be an indication that the saddle is too low, but there's bunch of other possibilites, some of which can be difficult to pin down. For example, I need to position the cleats on my road shoes so that my right foot is turned in very slightly. It took me a while to realise that this was the solution to the occasional stabbing pains in my right knee.

This is not to say "work it out for yourself", it is merely an indication that you may need to experiment to find what works.

I'm assuming that you have another bike, that you have been riding without knee pain for some time. If that is right, the first thing I'd do is carefully compare my position on the tourer to my position on the current bike. If they don't match - for example with regard to saddle height, or to how far behind the bottom bracket I am sitting - then I'd adjust the position on the tourer accordingly.

If they do match, then it appears that your existing position may not be perfect and the extra load is bringling out a latent problem that doesn't surface in less stressful circumstances. If that's the case, we're back to the experimentation, I'm afraid, or getting an expert to look at your position on the bike. And - and I would advise this even if you weren't getting knee pain - you need to adjust to the different experience of riding a loaded bike. Lower gears, and lower speed, to reduce the stress on your knees to something similar to what they'd experience on a road bike. Gearing down may help as much as anything else you can do.

Cyclebum

After discarding cleats for platforms, never had any more knee problems. Pedaling problems either for that matter.

I think it is not uncommon to experience an occasional bout of tendonitis that may result from the afore mentioned saddle height, foot posistioning, and/or mashing. Spin rates in the 80's seem to be the consensus for minimizing pressure on tendons and maximizing energy preservation for long distances/hill climbing.

Knee pain can, of course, be a much more complicated affair.

Machka 

1. Where is the pain?

2. Were you wearing jeans over your shorts?



The location of the pain can help determine the solution. Since you haven't provided us with that information, I'll give you this article about knee pain and possible solutions: https://www.cptips.com/knee.htm I've used the information in that article to figure out certain knee pain issues for myself.

Another good idea is to talk to someone knowledgeable in your bicycle shop about bicycle fit. The most important aspect of going on a long ride or a long cycling tour is getting your bicycle fit right. You and the bicycle are a machine. If your fit is wrong, the machine is less efficient and will break down. Fit isn't a big deal on short rides around town, but as the ride gets longer, and as you push more of a load, fit becomes very important.

You might also try riding with other knowledgeable cyclists and have them watch your technique and fit. Sometimes an observer can see things that you don't notice.



As for the question about the jeans .... if your pain is in the front of the knee, and you were wearing jeans, I'd suggest that the jeans constricted your knee movement and you're suffering from the early stages of patello-femoral pain syndrome. Jeans, or other constrictive leg wear, over your knees might not cause problems on shorts rides, but they certainly can on longer rides.

The solution is to get leg warmers which can be adjusted to be looser over the knees and/or a good pair of tights with articulated (?) knees ... you'll see them on the rack in places like MEC, and they'll look a little puffy around the knee area. I've also found that I can wear stretchy capris on their own or over my shorts, and they don't seem to bother my knees too much.

Machka 

Also ... since you mention going into the wind and up hills ... if the pain is above the knee, that could possibly be one of two things ...

1. If the pain is directly above the kneecap in a spot about 2 inches wide and going from the kneecap to about 1 inch above it, look up information on quadreceps tendonitis.

2. If the pain is above the kneecap, but not in the area I just described above, if the pain is around that area, it could simply be lack of fitness. You were doing something you haven't done before. If that's the case, the pain should go away in a couple days, and you'll need to gradually build up your fitness level ... gradually start taking on wind and hills with your loaded touring bicycle.


But those are only possibilities ... knees are complicated things, and your first step should be to ensure that your bicycle fits properly.

Machka 

And one more thing ... obviously we can't tell if your saddle is too low or not because we don't know where the pain is, and we don't have a photo of you on the bicycle with your leg extended ... but if, from the information we've provided, you decide your saddle is too low, be very cautious about raising it too much. If your saddle is too high, you can easily develop achilles tendon problems, especially if you're tackling the BC mountains and the Rockies early in your trip, and especially with a loaded bicycle.

Again, your body and the bicycle are a machine ... adjust one thing, and you'll affect other things.

This is, of course, why we suggest having a knowledgeable person look at you on your bicycle and work with you to get the fit right.

lucille

You got really good advice here. Seat too low was my first thought, but it could be so many things.

One thing I would add is that riding a fully loaded bike, especially in wind and/or up he hills is hard. You will most likely need to use lower gears than what you're used to just riding around town with no load. Make sure sure you have low enough gears and use them, they're your friends. ;-)

surfjimc

I get intermittent pain in my right knee when I ride. Mine is under my kneecap, and I find the best way to deal with it is too use a lower gear and take some of the pressure off of it while I am riding. That and aspirin seem to do the trick. Hope you get it worked out.

saddlesores

1. both knees or only one?

2. is it always when uphill/against the wind? or only after 5 hours of cycling?

3. are you maintaining your cadence? or speeding up to get over the hill/fight the wind?

4. are you mashing hard on the downstroke? same with both legses?

5. did you get spiffy new cleated shoes special for touring?

6. what's yer setup......type of pedals + type of shoes? spd/clips/rattraps/powerbands....?

bradtx

CCgirl83, Very good advice, questions and suggestions above and a photo with you leg at the pedal's 6 o'clock position may help even more. The best suggestion, if your fitment is good, is to use your lower gears, lower than what you're used to zipping around unloaded. Another thing is more mental than physical, again assuming good fitment and assuming there's no resident knee issues, in that you need to become accustomed to slower speeds, higher cadence and more effort than when riding unloaded. Your loaded shake down ride on (possibly) a familiar route should feel quite different than when riding unloaded.

Brad

Tourist in MSN

I have not had any significant knee pain for a few years now after I quit standing on the pedals to accelerate or climbing hills.

lhendrick

Congratulations, you have realized that pushing a very heavily loaded touring bicycle up hill into the wind is hard work. Your body is trying to tell you something. Listen to it. Summary of above advice: Seek medical advice. Lighten the bike. Do more training runs. Adjust bike fit with on site help.

Big Lew

"Machka" has given some great tips and advice. On my first tour of over 1000 miles, I developed knee pain during the first few days. It was similar to Machka's #2 advice. I experimented by raising my saddle and backing off on my energy output and using my gears more frequently rather than standing up and mashing it up short hills. I also stopped clipping in my shoes. After those first few days the pain reduced, and by the second week I was pretty much pain free and I had brought my daily distance average up to 85 miles which I maintained without any further problems for the rest of the trip.

simplygib

If the knee pain continues after verifying that your bike fit is correct, I wouldn't mess around with it on an internet forum. Get professional advice. See a doctor who specializes in sports medicine or get referred to a Physical Therapist with experience in biking-related problems.

CCgirl83

Thank you to everyone for the great advice. I will definitely be talking to my LBS and get a fit done. I think it might be the seat or the cleats or both because when I ride the bike with out the cleats it doesn't hurt as much.

Thank you again everybody!!

djb

heel on pedal, crank straight down, your leg should be pretty much straight. When you put your ball of your foot on the pedal in the usual pedalling position, you will have the proper bend in the knee, and be getting the full extension of your legs. If my seat is low by just a cm or two, my knees complain. Raise seat, and it goes away right away.

As for cleats, when I first got spd's about 20 yrs ago, I paid to get a fit done where they did the cleat placement as well. It showed up that my right foot naturally turns out a bit as I pedal, and so the right cleat was adjusted for this. Ive kept this same angle with subsequent shoe changes and it is quickly apparent when I dont have the angle right. Once it is set properly, all is fine.

Knowledgeable store people will be able to easily address the seat height part. Dont know how you are as a rider, but you have to have it at the proper height, no you will not be able to put your feet on the floor, but you just slide forward off the seat when you stop. (if you already know this, nvm)
As mentioned, riding loaded means you work a lot harder than toodling around town, so its imperative that the fit is correct.
It should be correct all the time, but any improper seat height or whatever is going to show up fast.
Proper cleat adjustment isnt hard, get the seat height resolved if it isnt right, then listen to your knees. Dont ride with pain, its natures way of telling you to stop.

unterhausen

I have trouble going into a headwind for many miles. Part of it is an unwillingness to gear down and go slower. I get some relief from Cho-Pat straps, but there are some jumper straps that stretch that work better on a bike. Also, ITB stretches have helped. Everyone is different, but this seems to cover a lot of cyclist's problems

djb

unter, I have a real issue with recommending "doohickies" for a given problem such as this asked by the op, especially with a beginner tourer.

"Part of it is an unwillingness to gear down and go slower" seem to indicate that for whatever reason, you dont want to reduce the strain on your knees by downshifting when it comes to a headwind or hill.
Headwinds or hills are always going to make us work harder, but the most important thing to begin with is that your bike is set up properly for you.
Once all the setup issues are dealt with, then one can work as hard as one wants and slowly get stronger as we ride more, but listening to what your body tells you about downshifting is vital to keeping your knees in good shape over decades of riding. You can be 20 and if you damage your knee, it can be there for the rest of your life.

You can ride any way you like, but I do believe its important on this forum to make sure we give good information to beginners.
I know you wrote "everyone is different" but your suggestion that straps could help, has the danger that someone experiencing knee pain due to improper bike fit, or improper riding (too low cadence) or improper cleat position, may think that its ok for the pain and if I put x knee straps on, it will help--without addressing the basics first.

Carbonfiberboy 

Besides the bike fit, if one has ridden the same terrain unloaded but gets knee pain when loaded, that means your gearing isn't low enough. You should be able to gear down so that pedal effort either loaded or unloaded is the same. Unloaded you just ride a higher gear while spinning the same cadence and using the same pedal effort and vice versa. Bike fit first, gearing second.

Machka 

Yes ... which is why I've got mtn bike gearing on my touring bicycle. My gearing is so low that I can't ride in the lowest gear on flat ground with an unloaded bicycle ... but that gear comes in very handy going uphill with a loaded bicycle.

unterhausen

what I posted is fine in context, please feel free not to lecture me

A lot of knee pain comes from unbalanced muscles. If the OP has not been exercising much, this is somewhat more likely than seat height and other fit issues. Dunno if straps will help or not, but ITB stretches are free and there are a lot of videos on youtube that show how to do them. Not going to cause any problems.

djb

Unter, this is the old internet thing, I didnt mean to lecture.
There are too many unknowns here with this persons issue, we cant see the bike so we cant know exactly if its fit, if its her pedals, if its her fitness, her gearing or a combo of everything.
I just hope she gets it all figured out and can ride as much as she can before she does a cross country trip, because a long trip will certainly show up and exacerbate any issues that have anything to do more than not being used to riding with a bunch of weight.
I learned the hard way of making mistakes on my first trip fully loaded and had a knee issue, so want to help as much as I can with beginners for them to avoid stuff that can be sorted out beforehand.

Machka 

Right. She hasn't even told us where the pain is.


I hope she can find help and get it fixed ... joint issues can end a cycling trip.