mdilthey

So, I'm touring through Canada this fall, and since it's Canada, there's a good chance I'll run into winter conditions. I know how to sleep outside in the winter, since I'm an avid snow camper, but I don't know how to ride all day in winter. I ride all winter at home, but just commuting, so by the time I get chilly, I've reached my destination.

Here's what I'm worried about:


Head: I have a thin "Peruvian" hat from OR that is fleece with a windstopper liner. I was going to wear that under my helmet, with an Icebreaker merino wool bandanna tied around my nose and mouth like a scarf. My ears are under the hat. Enough? Do I need ski goggles?

Hands: I have two glove systems. I have some Polartec gloves, some MLD Rain Mittens, and a pair of Gore-Tex snowboarding mittens. The Goretex mittens are insulated. Will a combination of all 3 keep my hands warm enough to ride all day in 20º windy weather?

Legs: I have Gore-Tex Paclite rain pants that I was going to combine with heavyweight Ibex merino wool tights. Is this enough, or should I bring two pairs of wool tights?

Feet: I have two choices: Thick wool socks plus an overshoe, or Neoprene socks. Neoprene socks are $40 cheaper, so that's my preferred route. Thoughts?

Thanks for the advice!

fietsbob

You used to working outdoors all winter where it Snows? just got a house from someone that got it then realized
the weather on he north coast, is not like on the central Cal coast.

mdilthey

I slept outside in Western Massachusetts for most of december. I did Mt. Moosilauke in NH and Camel's Hump in VT during the deep freezes, where it got to -10 at night. Not worried about canadian cold, just riding cold.

bikemig 

This sounds like a heck of a trip. I dislike neoprene socks because they made my feet clammy. I'd go for wool socks and neoprene overshoes.

mdilthey

Cheers, will do

calyth

Depends on which part of Canada you're going through. Vancouver doesn't get all that cold at all. Ottawa gets really cold in the dead of winter.

If you're in the fall, it shouldn't be too bad. I'd make sure you have enough windblocking outershell.

It really depends on what time you're coming through here. February this year was really bloody cold.

arctos

Take a look at the Vapor Barrier socks, liner gloves, shirts and pants from Warmlite in Guilford,NH. I have been using them for over twenty years. The socks and gloves will help keep your outer insulation dry while you ride. The shirt and pants I use as pajamas to keep insensible sweat from soaking and freezing in my quilt or sleeping bag. The material feels like flannel next to your skin- extremely comfortable. The best part is how inexpensive they all are in total. Total weight about 12 ounces. The use learning curve is very short. Just keep adjusting as conditions change to let vapor escape.

I have converted doubters I have met while bike touring, backpacking or kayak touring by simply loaning them a VBL shirt. All have ordered one after their use.

clasher

Totally dependent on where you're riding and when. A lot of drivers won't be used to seeing someone out in the country in the winter. I ride in the winter but it's a fairly mild part of the country around here most of the time, especially the last few years. Salt is used around here on the roads and it will ruin derailleurs and chain pretty quickly. I wear a high-visibility construction parka and big sorel boots with wool slacks and splash pants if it's wet out. I've worn snowpants before but only in extreme cold. For me the biggest problem is sweating while riding and I usually ride with just ski goggles and no toque in an attempt to shed a bit of heat. I also wear a scarf on the inside of the coat that can be wrapped in a lot of different ways depending on the internal heat and precipitation. I usually carry a toque anyway and a spare pair of socks... usually I just have thin wool dress socks on but sometimes I'll double up if it's particularly cold. The wind in the open countryside will be taking a heavier toll on your body than you might be expecting as well.

Machka 

For winter cycling, I usually just wear a fleece headband, and a fleece neck gaiter. And I have a helmet cover to go over my helmet. I also have a very thin cycling-specific balaclava for really cold days.

If I were doing a winter tour, I'd bring 2 fleece headbands, 2 fleece neck gaiters, my helmet cover and my balaclava.

Why 2 headbands and neck gaiters? Because when 1 gets soaked with sweat and your breath and the frost all that creates, you can let it dry while wearing the dry set.


On my hands, I wear 1 pair of mini-gloves and 1 pair of heavy gloves or mitts (ski-wear). I wear the mini-gloves so that I can take the heavy gloves or mitts off and do minor adjustments to the bicycle without freezing my fingers.

If I were doing a tour, I'd bring 2 or 3 pair of mini-gloves, and a couple pair of heavy gloves or mitts.

Why so many? Same reason as with the headbands and neck gaiters ... they'll be soaked with sweat by the end of the day, and will need a day to dry. Don't forget to turn them inside out at the end of the day so they will dry. The extra pair of mini-gloves can be worn around camp or while sleeping.


I'd bring 2 pair of tights ... same reasons as above.



Have a read over my article about Cold Feet ...

https://www.machka.net/whatworks/coldfeet.htm


And a little set of photos of some of the winter gear I wear, especially that headband/neck gaiter combo:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/machka-...100373/detail/


Now, one good thing about cycling through Canada at that time of year ... you can get some of these things quite inexpensively at just about any of the dollar stores or Walmart. So if you find that your 2 headbands aren't cutting it, you can pop into a dollar store and pick up a toque.

mdilthey

Ah, good to know that winter bike touring is just like winter backpacking... I am very familiar with the concept of multiple gloves/hats.

I am also familiar with VBL's and assumed if it got REALLY cold I could put some plastic bags over my feet. Maybe I'll order these VBL socks instead; the price is right.

...I am now worried about salt... Would washing my chain and derailleur nightly with a water bottle and then drying them be a realistic solution, or am I sure to freeze important parts? What's the strategy for biking long distances through road salt? I am perfectly fine replacing my chain and cassette after the tour, or even MID-tour, but I am very fond of my Shimano XT Derailleur.


P.S. My route:

I'm going to start in mid-August and ride through VT to Montreal in a couple of days. Then, it's off to Toronto and then Winnipeg. if I'm making good time and finding WiFi hotspots to work from without trouble, I'll try to hit Vancouver before I lose my shoulder to snowdrifts. A good pace puts me there by mid-October or earlier.

bikenh

I will second the wool socks and neoprene booties. My feet stay warm pretty much all the time even when doing 100 mile days starting out below zero F and only warming up to 20 F midday. If the temp is above 10F anymore I only wear a windshell on top with a lightweight wicking long sleeve shirt underneath. For the legs I wear cycling shorts and wind pants. Much below 40 degrees I wear skier ear protector...thicker fleece headband basically and ragged wool pop top mittens. Above 40 I use a lightweight fleece headband, hunting department at Walmart and homemade fleece mittens.

Remember the number one key to staying warm while riding outdoors during the winter months is to...STAY DRY!!! You don't want to be warm, you want to be dry. If you are dry you will be warm. Sweat makes you cool down...hence why it is called evaporative cooling...not evaporative warming. You don't want to cool your body down you want to warm it up. The exercise causes you warm up you just have to manage that warmth so you don't end up sweating. The easiest way to manage that warmth is to keep the clothing off. The more you put on the more of the heat you are going to trap and the trapped heat is going to cause you to warm up too much and cause you to sweat...the sweat is going to cool the body down while causing the clothing to get wet so when you end up running into problems and have to get off the bike for any period of time you are going to continue cooling down much more rapidly than you would if you weren't wearing wet clothing.

You want to be barely comfortable, not warm. I agree with the boys over on the winter cycling sub forum that everybody is different so you have to experiment with yourself to find what works best for you. One other key secret I will share openly. Don't take any clothing off while riding. Start first thing in the morning the way you plan of riding all day long no matter what happens to the temperature, figuring naturally it should rise throughout the day. Don't remove any clothing. If you are taking clothing off you put too much clothing on in the first place. You need to have less clothing on to start with. Just ride through colder temps with less clothing and let you body warm you up instead of having the clothing warm you up.

I have ridden many winter century to metric centuries over the past couple of winter here in central New Hampshire. One day last year, Jan 2012, I rode a 100+ miles starting at -4F and the temps only got up to around 20F by the end of the day. I was shocked by how little I had on...now I would have even less on, and by how warm I actually was doing it.

Remember if you find yourself getting cold in the first 5-10 minutes of ride, continue riding and don't change anything. Wait until you have been riding for 15 minutes. I was out one evening back in January this year. I left the library to head home, roughly 6 mile ride. All I had on was cycling shorts/windpants and Duofold lightweight thermal top/windshell. I got about .5 mile from the library and my fingers on the right hand were cold as ice. The left hand wasn't bad but the right hand was cold. I started flexing the hand to try to stimulate movement/warmth to the fingers. I kept riding. I had the wool pop top mittens on and I rarely get cold fingers anymore. I kept riding. By the time I got home my hands had warmed up nicely and I found myself being greatful I didn't have a headlamp because with the near full moon...if I remember correctly, I would have stayed out for quite a while riding after dark. As I walked in my house and checked the temperature outside my kitchen window it was only 3 degrees F. I was shocked how comfortable I was even though I had nothing at all on. The stuff I had on I've ridden with at 50-60 degrees as well when it was raining and have felt very comfortable riding then as well.

Given the timing of your trip...not another winter to test equipment out, I would suggest play with the equipment while on the trip. It would be a perfect time to experiment to find out what works best for you while winter riding. Everyone is different but everyone also has the simple requirement that to stay safe while winter riding the number one thing you need to do is to stay dry...not stay warm.

I do agree that with a fall ride you may not need much at all. It depends on when you are planning on having the ride being done. Check online. You might be able to find out what the average high/low temps and the record low temps are for the time you are planning on being out. That can give you a decent guide of what to expect for conditions. If really depends on how late in the fall you are planning on being out...September 21st/22nd or December 19th/20th. That can make a big difference. Do a little research.

Okay, everybody can flame away. You better have some serious winter riding experience if you want to flame away though. Winter riding experience isn't riding in Texas, Florida, or those likes during the winter months. You better live up north where winter temperature are for real or your advice is pure BS.

mdilthey

Thanks Bikenh for your thorough post. Most of what you said, I already know all too well from snowshoeing and winter backpacking. I still found it useful to read again. However, not moving my arms at all while biking makes them colder than when I hike, so I needed some bike-specific advice for a few key areas.

I am all set with learning the hard way about staying dry and staying active, and I have my wind shell and merino wool baselayer ready to rock for this tour.

bikenh

Sorry just read your reply about the finish time. More than likely you will probably only be dealing with fall weather and not much winter weather. You have to remember Mount Washington typically sees its first snowfall right around Labor Day but even Mount Katadhin in ME is open through Columbus Day weekend and they will let hikers still go up it as long as it isn't snowed in. Sometimes the hikers have climbed the 5000+ foot peak in November. I don't think you have to worry about shoulders getting snowed in that early. You may not even see much in the way of snow other than in Alberta...I could be wrong on that but that would be my guess. November I would be getting worried, but not October. As for ski goggles I use them generally below 40F. My eyes always seem to tear up badly if I don't.

bikenh

Depending on your actual route you may find you don't really need the extra arm protection. I do ride a bit differently than most. I'm more of a power rider. I pretty much always stand to climb. I rarely downshift to climb...I just stand up. I'm swaying the bike and that keeps the arms warms. My arms never get cold, even at 10F with basically nothing on.

mdilthey

Yeah, I like to over-prepare slightly since most of my gear is so lightweight. I barely notice an extra pair of wool tights and some VBL's.

So if Canada gets bad a month early, I'm ready. If it takes me longer and I don't want to head home, I'm ready. If there's one super-bad storm, I'm ready.

As for the salt issue, regardless of it's application to this tour but just my life in general, would investing in a stainless steel chain and cassette be a solution?

fietsbob

Snowmobile Boots? thick gloves and Pogies .. check out the Ididabike stuff Spring Ididarod Dogsled course , but on Bikes .

Fatbikes on that because its open ground , on pavement you dont need that but their gear worn may be good to look at.
/

clasher

You could wash the chain off with windshield washer fluid and re-lube it. Water would ice it up and likely end up pickling the chain instead. I've seen wipperman stainless chains but I don't know if anyone is making stainless cassettes.

Machka 

If you're anywhere near Vancouver by early to mid-October, there's a good chance you won't see any snow ... well, maybe a day or two going through the Rockies ...


A comment about your comment: "ride all day in 20º windy weather" ...

1) 20 degrees is room temperature ... 68F. 20F = -7C.

2) You might get the occasional day like that (-7 and windy) in September or October, but I don't think you'll be experiencing that sort of temperature day in and day out.

Here's September in Calgary last year ... not a daytime high below 16C (that's 61F). But quite a few days in the mid-20s (75-80F). You're not going to need all the balaclavas and mitts, etc. etc. for that! Although you might want to make sure you've got a good mattress and sleeping bag for the nights.
https://climate.weather.gc.ca/climate...nth=9&cmdB1=Go

October was a bit cooler, but it wasn't till mid-October that the temperatures dropped below freezing.


Last September, Banff was a bit cooler than Calgary (it is, after all, in the mountains), but still the coldest day reached 10C.
https://climate.weather.gc.ca/climate...nth=9&cmdB1=Go


Go prepared, but also have a look at what the temperatures have been in previous years for the places you're going and time you're going there.

John Nolan 

Agreed: except for mountain passes, I wouldn't expect much snow, so you won't need to worry about salt either. We don't usually see any snow in Ottawa until Halloween, if then, and that would just be a light dusting. The prairies can get snow earlier, but you'd be better off planning for fall, and buying winter gear on the road if you need it (you'll be in places that have such things readily available anyway).

On exception might be tires: early morning roads are most slippery in the transition weeks when a cold fog or mist can freeze and glaze pavement. Problem is, for that situation you want studded tires, which would be, literally a drag for most of your trip. Probably best just to wait till later in the day if you encounter that kind of weather. If you do find yourself facing icy roads for any length of time, most major cities will have studded tires available (at Mountain Equipment Co-op or some other shop).

Machka 

It's rather unlikely he'll need studded tires. Western Canada is pretty dry ... they don't get much in the way of cold fogs or mists. But they do get frosts which can make the roads slippery. Studded tires aren't much use in frosts, but flattening the tires a bit can help.

A few other frost-riding tips ...
-- wait till the sun is up a bit before riding so that the frost has a little bit of time to melt.
-- be very cautious about riding in the shade, riding on painted surfaces (like the lines on roads), riding over bridges, and riding over railway tracks.


And western Canada also doesn't use the quantity of salt that eastern Canada does if the roads do get slippery, so in answer to the question about washing the bicycle to get rid of the salt ... probably not much of a worry after Winnipeg.

John Nolan 

Good points, and good tips!

Machka 

These photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/machka-...7602324692010/ were taken on a ride my father and I did in the Canadian Rockies (Hwy 11) on September 29, 2007.

There had been a light skiff of snow the previous night ... just enough to make it beautiful. We did have to be a bit careful in a few shady places early in the ride, but it wasn't long before the road was bare and dry. And the temperature that day would have reached about +8C.







Now, of course, another September could be completely different ... warmer, cooler ...