renyay

Hi Ya'll,

I'm heavily conisidering buying a Sam Hillborne frame, and am curious about people's thoughts about and experiences with them. I want this frame for touring and would be buying a smaller frame that takes 650b wheels.

The main thing keeping me from going for the frame is that it is now manufactured in Taiwan. How great a difference in ride quality and construction quality do you think there is in the newer models, vs the ones built in the states?

Another thing I'm considering is that older Hillborne frames have canti mounts, and the newer ones take caliper brakes. I would prefer to set the bike up with cantis, but would be curious to hear opinions on the differences.

Thanks for your thoughts!

bradtx

renyay, Riv has a reputation for designing a bike to fill a niche that many manufacturers dismiss. To me the Sam Hillborne is a rando/medium weight tourer that depending on components and careful weight management can work as an expedition level tourer. Many bikes with less touring potential have been successful touring bikes.

While there is no romance with a frame built in Taiwan, they've manufactured many frames for many brands and IMHO quality is generally very good. Caliper brakes, while not the norm should be fine as long as they're a dual pivot design.

Brad

TiBikeGuy

Unless you are very short, I see no reason to buy 650b wheeled bikes. 700c tyres and tubes are easier to get and you can have a wider choice of tyres. If you intend to use this bike for travelling to remote countries, bear in mind that some places do not sell the smaller tyres, and if they do, it is usually lightweight tyres for triathlon bikes, which may not be suitable for loaded touring.

While some people like to get Made in USA frames, sometimes the frame maker outsourced the frame building to Taiwan or China. As long as they back up the frame with warranty, the country of origin should not be a deal breaker. Taiwanese bike factories do make quality frames for many International brands according to their brand specifications. The reason why certain bike brands do that is the lower cost of manufacture so that they can sell it at a lower price. Another factor is that Taiwan and China factories can make higher volume at lower cost and have shorter turn-around time with each new model.

Canti brake mounts are prefered over caliper brakes. Most 700c tourers are fitted with them. 650 size bikes have shorter top tubes and shorter chainstays, so may have problems with heel clearance when using panniers. The front may have toe clip overlap with the front wheel when the crank is in the horizontal position.

tarwheel 

I would not buy a touring bike with caliper brakes. I have several bikes with canti brakes, and one with medium reach brakes, and there is no comparison in stopping power. The cantis work better dry, wet and loaded. My main commuter, a Gunnar Sport, has med-reach caliper brakes, and that is about the only thing I don't like about the bike. If it had cantis, it would be ideal.

I wouldn't give a second-thought to the frame being built in Taiwan. Not an issue at all.

Since you already own some Soma bikes, why not a Soma Saga? It would be better suited for touring than the Sam H. and much less expensive as well.

nun

Rivendell designs are good, apart from the 650b fetish. I give them credit for sticking to their guns, but I wouldn't buy a 650b bike. Also you'll be paying a premium to own the Rivendell over the other options.....like the Soma Saga, but they are nice bikes and lugs are cool.

rebel1916

Only if you feel that you should pay extra for a bike that weighs more.

fietsbob

touring , lean towards a 559~26" wheel instead .. a better supplied wheel if you need tires in the field..

Most bikes people buy these days are Taiwan sourced .. all those QBP & SOMA brands .. and Etc..

its about Price .. more than Quality. TW Tig Welded joints are as good as any done 5 days a week.

Lugged steel frames, lots of small builders , just made by other than Hobbit hands..

fuzz2050

If you have to ask, and you're in a position to afford it, you probably should buy a Rivendell. If that's what you want, nothing else will come close.

robow

I wouldn't either especially if I was planning on touring with it. And for that amount of money, consider a custom.

fietsbob

One of Bruce Gordons Rock and road tour X would be a proper 26" wheel touring rig. higher front racks ,

as fitting for bushwhacking tours. and made in Petaluma Cal. So have a Custom input too..

https://www.bgcycles.com/rocknroad.html

Doug64

You might also consider a custom made Co-Motion frame set for about the same price. They are hand made in Eugene, Oregon, and are exceptionally nice bikes.

My wife has the older model of this bike, a "Nor wester Tour". It can be built with cantis or disc brakes.
https://www.co-motion.com/index.php/singles/cascadia

bikemig 

I wouldn't lose any sleep over the fact that the bike is made in Taiwan, so are a lot of pretty nice bikes. Everything else being equal, I'd prefer cantis but I've toured using caliper brakes and I don't see that as being a huge downside. The frame tubing is not quite as stout as on the Atlantis which is Riv's touring bike. I think of the Sam Hilborne as a fine bike to ride which can also be used to tour.

One possible problem. Rivendell doesn't publish frame specs. I'd want to know how long the chain stays are before buying the Hilborne as a touring bike.

nun

Wow you could have fooled me. Rivendell have always published frame geometries.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...INmNUMWc#gid=0

irwin7638

Short answer, YES! You won't be unhappy. I have one which I bought because I fell in love with the Hunqapillar after a year and wanted a lighter faster version with the same geometry. My Hunq was one of the first built and was put together by Waterford, the Hillborne is a Taiwan frame, I can find no difference whatsoever in the quality. The Hunq is made from the heaviest gauge Kaisai 8630 tubing and the Hillborne a lighter gauge, that's the difference. My Hillborne weighs in around 24 lbs with bottle cage and SKS fenders. It will handle touring and you won't find a more comfortable bike. Don't worry about the 650B tires there are plenty of choices available and it seems like more everyday. I use Soma Express 38mm on my city bike and think they will be great for touring, it's the same tire as Panaracer Pasela TG but with reinforced sidewalls. There are plenty of other choices also. Pull the trigger, you won't regret it!



Marc

bikemig 

@nun: This is cool. I've looked a few times for this on the website and missed the link. But I'm really glad you weren't fooled. And I really appreciate your help on this.

LeeG

Of course you should

ironwood

A few years ago 650b might not be the best choice for a touring bike because of the lack of places one could get replacement tires or rims if you should have a disastrous gear failure on tour, but now there are more suppliers and you can get most anything delivered overnight.

650b tires are more comfortable, and toe overlap can be minimized or eliminated. A wider tire like the 38mm Soma B-line allows you to ride on rougher roads than a narrow tire would.

Taiwan? I remember when Japanese bikes were looked down on.

skookum

Now the Toyo built Atlantises are collector's items.

Six jours

I spend a lot of time with the local Rivendell crowd. I've never known any of them to be unhappy they bought a Rivendell. In fact, what I mostly see is people buying a Rivendell and then buying more Rivendells. That seems like a pretty good testimonial.

I personally think cantilevers are going to become less and less popular. I still use them and like them, but good calipers - and especially, good centerpulls, as shown on the Riv website - are better in just about every way. The only problem at the moment is that there are a lot of god-awful long-reach calipers for sale these days, so you've got to know which ones to get.

The key to a good lugged frame is to get full penetration of the brazing material and ensure good alignment. Neither of those are terribly difficult and there's no reason to believe the Taiwanese can't do it. Now, a good American builder will typically put a lot of effort into shaping the lugs to be aesthetically pleasing, while the Taiwanese are less likely, especially at this price point. If you can tell the difference between more-or-less stock lugs and hand-finished lugs, and are willing to pay the considerable price for them, then the Hillborne is likely to disappoint you. Otherwise, I doubt there is a difference in any practical sense.

I am a die-hard 650b fan but I always tell folks that there is no magic in the diameter. If you are going to use narrow (37mm or less) and/or heavily constructed tires there is really no reason to go to 650b, IMO. But if you want wide, light, top-quality tires with minimal-to-no overlap, 650b is the only game in town - and once you've put in some miles with the Grand Bois Hetre, you will probably never be happy with any other tire.

HTH!

gamecock

Just spent 11 days on my Sam (with V-Brakes), camping, 800+ miles, loved it, no problems--with the bike.

Chris Pringle

I think that Riv makes great bikes with a potential for collector's item down the years (higher return on your investment.) For the money though, I would seriously consider a custom bike (higher satisfaction on your investment)... in whatever wheel size you'd prefer. If you'd prefer a custom frame that has the appeal of collector's items, look into the builder's credentials.

As far as wheel size, if all you're planning to do is occasional touring, I don't see why 650b should not work. For extended trips or serious touring, I would definitely go with 26" (internationally) or 700c due to availability of wheel components. 650b tires are still so scarce that you'll be forced to do mail orders if you're caught in the middle of nowhere without an extra tire. Not practical.

Booger1

Well made bicycles......I'd have a custom bike built for that money.....You can build a nice bicycle for the cost of a Joe Bell paint job....Nice....WAY TOO NICE for touring.

I wouldn't buy a 650 bike unless you really need it.....short with big feet...

alan s 

Why in the Sam Hill would you want a Sam Hillborne? Overpriced, IMHO.

ironwood

They were scarce a few years ago, but there are now a lot of tires available. May if you are touring Kyrgyzstan or Patagonia you might be better off with 26" , but you can find 650b many places in Europe. Folding spares are also easy to carry.

irwin7638

Sams are $1225 for frame, fork, headset, bb, and seat post. Who sells custom frames for that price? Seriously, I want to talk to them.
Joe Bell only paints the custom Rivs, you won't touch them for that price.
Marc