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  1. #1
    ( d/dx (66x) )^(1/2) jfk32's Avatar
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    Canadian Stealth Camping and Border Crossing

    I am planning a trip around Lake Erie this summer. It is going to be me and a friend. I have a passport. I have a few questions about border issues and some other issues with laws and whatnot pertaining to Canada.

    I am going to be it looks like exclusively in the Province of Ontario... and what I am wondering about is what are the laws that pertain to camping in these areas? What rights do you have for unposted land? Is land generally posted and fenced, or not? What kind of trespassing violations can I expect if I get into trouble?

    The thing is, that I am good at stealth camping, and I can be very adept at being discreet and keeping a low profile. However, I always like to be prepared for what I can expect if I do find myself in trouble.

    Also, I am planning on crossing at most likely Fort Erie and then Marine City, north of Lake St. Clair. I plan on crossing there because I have family in Northern Detroit, so that puts me out closer to that area. I see online that there is a ferry there that runs for 5 bucks a car, which I will gladly pay for a bike. What is crossing like at Fort Erie? Does anyone have any personal knowledge?

    I am on the Warm Showers List, and I hope to maybe get one or two places to crash safely from that. Otherwise, I may go door knocking throughout the countryside looking for friendly people who will let me use their yards. Has anyone had any experience doing that in this area? Will I be looked on suspiciously for being American? Tensions have been growing between the two countries politically, with this stupid missile defense system crap (I BLEEPING HATE THIS ADMINISTRATION, THEY ARE RUINING ALL MY TRAVEL PLANS).

    If anyone has any advice on any of these things, I would be glad to hear it.

    Jason Kotenko
    Jason Kotenko

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  2. #2
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    I am going to be it looks like exclusively in the Province of Ontario... and what I am wondering about is what are the laws that pertain to camping in these areas? What rights do you have for unposted land? Is land generally posted and fenced, or not? What kind of trespassing violations can I expect if I get into trouble?

    Depends where you go, some land is fenced and some isn't. Southern Ontario is also HEAVILY populated. It's possible in some areas the only "land" you'll see is someone's yard. If the land is fenced, it is tresspassing to go onto it, and there will likely be signs to that effect too.


    Otherwise, I may go door knocking throughout the countryside looking for friendly people who will let me use their yards. Has anyone had any experience doing that in this area? Will I be looked on suspiciously for being American?

    Just don't be obnoxious. Canadians are usually quite polite (please, thank you, smiles, waving, etc.) If you go into Canada with the attitude of "Americans are the greatest", you may find yourself without a place to sleep, and no friends.

  3. #3
    Senior Member bbaker22's Avatar
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    I lived in Southern Ontario for a few years and can only give you a little vague info...
    Lots of farmland and friendly people to the north of Lake Erie and south of Highway 401.
    There are also quite a few provincial parks along Lake Erie, some of which have camping.
    I don't have any idea what the legal issues would be for trespassing, but I don't think
    legal camping would be too hard to come by (either by asking for permission or by staying
    in provincial park campsites).

    The people in the area are used to seeing and dealing w/ Americans. Recent politics
    will have little affect on viewpoints that have developed by being neighbors for hundreds
    of years. On a one on one basis (which is what you'll probably be dealing with), I find
    the people of Ontario to be very friendly...

    baker

  4. #4
    SAB
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    I agree. Remember that prior to 9/11 the Canadian/US border was the longest unprotected in border in the world. Individual Canadians have no problem with individual Americans, and vice-versa. When I was touring the southeastern parts of Canada I found the people to be extremely easy-going and friendly.

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    rat
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    Don't worry about getting into Canada - just leave your guns at home.
    I used to live in Toronto and once spent a few days tracing the north shore of Lake Erie from Windsor to about Port Stanley, using mostly highway 3 and did the rest of the shore to crystal beach and fort Erie on another trip. We stayed in motels each night, but there are several provincial parks (Rondeau, Pelee, John E Pierce (great swimming) and on to Long Point.
    Order the Ontario Transportation map series from the ministry of transportation, #1 and #5 because you will need a detailed map to find the roads off Highway 3 which was, at least a few years ago, a little too busy for comfort and lacking a paved shoulder. There is also a network of rail trails if you're riding a mountain/hybrid.
    A competant stealth camper will have no trouble in this part of the province and at most times there will be no need for stealth at all.
    Crossing at Marine City will take you through Ontario's oil country which I've heard is interesting but you'd miss scenic, historic Essex county and Point Pelee which is worth a visit. Might want to cross in Detroit on the tunnel bus, but then again you'd have to navigate through the whole city and that would just be ****ty. Travel from the west to east is best because you'll take advantage of winds whipping off the lake. Umm, what else? Take a good repair kit because there are few towns hence few bike shops.

  6. #6
    Senior Member stokell's Avatar
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    All good advice: I'll just add a few things. Contact the Ontario government Travel Service and request a recreational map of southwestern Ontario. It marks trials and suggested routes. You can also download a high quality pdf of the Official Ontario Roadmap at:
    http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/

    I did this tour several years ago credit card touring. Since then I am a covert to stealth camping and I believe other members are right in saying there are lots of locations to stealth camp along the way. Ontario is a big province and not all of the land is owned by individuals. We have something called "Crown Land" that is land owned by the government. Also most shorelines have guaranteed public access.

    Something else to consider about Canada is land ownership and trespass is not such a big issue as in the USA, and as someone pointed out we have fewer guns so even if you make an unwise choice, you are less likely to be confronted.

    I only camp on unmarked, unimproved and unfenced land away from access roads. I walk the perimeter and check for signs of 'bush parties' or other human or animal activity. I make sure no one sees me going in or coming out. I camp late and leave early.

    You'll have lots of fun!
    Last edited by stokell; 03-03-05 at 03:54 AM.

  7. #7
    bici accumulatori pinerider's Avatar
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    The official Road Map of Ontario is available online at Official Road Map of Onatio

    The Ontario Parks guide is at http://www.ontarioparks.com/english/parksguide.html , with the map showing provincial Lake Erie shore parks on page 47 and the descriptions for the southwest regions, pages 82 - 90

    The Fort Erie crossing shouldn't be bad, but there are a lot of trucks. The lanes are kind of narrow on the bridge, the speed limit is around 40 mph, but I think there is sidewalk on both sides of the bridge and it's not all that long. A nicer bridge to bike across would be the Rainbow bridge in Niagara Falls, but that's a bit out of your way.
    Last edited by pinerider; 03-03-05 at 04:07 AM.
    ...!

  8. #8
    Senior Member cyclezealot's Avatar
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    Just curious...Can not one take a boat across Lake Erie...Seems boats go to Peelee Island from both Ohio and Ontario..Can not one completely cross the lake by changing boats on the island? That migh be an interesting ride..Cuts your distance, should one want to. Peelee Island is interesting...Seems Ontario shore had lots of parks.
    The Canadians like Americans, no matter what the issue that might divide us..You will be treated just great.

  9. #9
    Still Newbie way124's Avatar
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    I've been touring every summer, with every tour a little longer than before. This spring I'm going to do an Erie Loop, which I mentioned in this thread. I'm only worried that the lake hasn't thawed by end of April

    Oh yes, there's a ferry (that takes bikes) from Sandusky, OH to Pelee Island or Leamington, ON.

    Here's the map.

  10. #10
    Senior Member jnoble123's Avatar
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    Hi!

    I went around Lake Erie two years ago by bicycle and last year I circled Lake Huron.

    I have crossed at both border crossings that you have asked about plus Detroit and Saulte Ste Marie while bicycle touring fully loaded and self-contained.

    At Fort Erie there is a web site that describes the crossing. I recommend finding that and using the Contact Us form or equivalent to determine if the crossing is still available for bikes. When I crossed I walked my bike on the South side pedestrian sidewalk, parked my bike outside the office and checked in. I was going clockwise around the lake so I was entering the US at that time. The bridge toll is only collected when going in the opposite direction so for me the crossing was free.

    At Marine City/Sombra the ferry crossing was busy with three boatloads worth of cars waiting to cross. Once again I was entering the US from Canada. I just rode towards the front of the line. Once the boat filled up with cars they motioned me on board with the bike. I think the fee was $2.00. I crossed here during my Round Lake Huron tour.

    There is indeed a ferry that crossing Lake Erie between Sandusky, Ohio and Leamington, Ontario. I believe that the ferry also drops by Pelee Island. I haven't taken this route between the US and Canada although I did take other ferries by the same company to get to South Bass Island without problem. (In fact it was good fun).

    As far as tensions between Canadians and Americans despite the two wars we fought against each other in most cases you will find canadians to be friendly to americans just as I have found americans to be friendly to canadians. Our two nations share a lot of positive common history, culture and values. Sure we have our points of disagreement but thankfully we seem to have put outright violence behind us and personally I hope that we continue to do so.

    The northern side of Lake Erie is largely agricultural in nature. It will seem much less inhabited then the south shore of the same lake. There are woodlots, public campgrounds, rail trails etc throughout the route. I've often thought about camping on one of the old rail trails using my hammock. There is a rail trail south of Windsor, near Port Burwell, near Port Dover and another one near Ridgeway or Ridgetown.

    You can find links to both my Round Lake Erie and Round Lake Huron tours on the following web page:

    http://www.bicycletouring101.com/AboutTheEditor.htm

    When I travel though any country, including my own, I strive to be respectful and polite to others. I find that in this way I meet many nice people and have extraordinary experiences. If you do the same in Canada then I expect that I will be reading an incredible online journal upon your return (you are writing one right?).

    I live in London, Ontario. Depending on timing I might be able to escort you through the city if you come this far north or even meet up with you further south and ride a bit with you.

    BTW: If you haven't been to Niagara Falls yet then you might consider adding that to your places to visit even though it is a bit out of your way. You are unlikely to regret the extra day.

    There is a guidebook available from a company called Around Lake Erie as another option. I didn't use it much since I typically like to devise my route as I go.

    backroadmapbooks.com have very detailed mapbooks showing all levels of road right down to the small secondary roads. Additionally there is a cycling map that you can obtain for different sections of Ontario that shows the rail trails as well. I have to find a link for that one.

    Several other people have gone around Lake Erie as well. On crazyguyonabike I have a tour called the Great Lake Circle Tour ( http://jrngreatlakescircle.crazyguyonabike.com ). All of my great lake rounds are actually segments of this tour. Within each section I also have a page for each lake listing other roundings that I am aware of. There are currently five listings for Lake Erie.

    This year I go around Lake Ontario and possibly Lake Michigan. My last lake will be Lake Superior unless I decide to also go around Lake Bai..... in Russia as well since I believe that it is the world's largest freshwater lake.

    Feel free to ask more questions if needed. I will do what I can to assist and most importantly plan for FUN because that's what I've experienced with each lake I've rounded!

    ~Jamie N
    www.bicycletouring101.com

  11. #11
    Senior Member cyclezealot's Avatar
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    So Way...From the map I assume once you used the boat to cross Lake Erie...How was Peelee Island? Worth a visit....One thing the lakes further north have black flies when directly on the lake...Last I knew ..Were those pests while riding ? also, how do you rate the roads...Trucks are pretty common in these parts...

  12. #12
    Senior Member jnoble123's Avatar
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    Hi.

    I'm not sure if your question was directed at me but here goes! (grin)

    I took a ferry to South Bass Island where the town of Put-In-Bay is located. One of the themes of the tour at that point revolved around the War of 1812 and there was a monument located on the island. In my sailing days I also used to hear about Put In Bay on a regular basis so I wanted to visit.

    I never did go to Pelee Island.

    Black flies can be a problem further north in Ontario and Michigan. I don't believe that you will find them anywhere near Lake Erie. Even up north there is a distinct season when they seem to be bad. Go after July 1 and assuming a normal preciptation pattern (water and heat seems to encourage them) then they shouldn't be a problem up there.

    The only place where I can remember trucks being an issue was on US 2 at the end of my run through Ohio. I was surfing the bow waves produced by lines of trucks going by. The trucks were in tight groups due to construction further back on the route. I've since learned that there were a few other alternatives with less traffic that I could have taken instead.

    Most of my time was spent on quiet backroads or secondary highways with paved shoulders.

    ~Jamie N
    www.bicycletouring101.com

  13. #13
    Still Newbie way124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclezealot
    So Way...From the map I assume once you used the boat to cross Lake Erie...How was Peelee Island? Worth a visit....One thing the lakes further north have black flies when directly on the lake...Last I knew ..Were those pests while riding ? also, how do you rate the roads...Trucks are pretty common in these parts...
    I haven't cycled that yet I'm planning to this spring. But I've cycled to Pt Pelee twice and the flies are only a problem when you reach the very end point of Pt Pelee (about 200m from the tip). Traffic is very sparse, most of them are concentrated around 401.

    Here are a few photos around Essex County (Pt Pelee, Chatham, Leamington, Rondeau Provincial Park).

  14. #14
    Papa Wheelie Sigurdd50's Avatar
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    This may be moot as things change in 30 years... but when I rode from chicago, thru Wisc, the U.P., then over the Soo locks, over the Grerat Lakes, then a ferry from Manitoulin Island back to Michigan... I discovered a very string of Canadian Youth HOstels. Very reasonable, included meals, and different vibe at each stop. I'd check to see if this is still an option. The Sault St. Marie hostel was a converted day camp where about 200 canoeist, bikers, hikers, and tripped out others crashed; the next was in a converted church in Blind River, where 4 migrant fruit pickers were overnighting; then an open camp on Manitoulin Island, where a back-to-the earth couple cooked vegetarian grub and sang Loudon Wainright songs around a blazing bonfire.

    A quick Google did not reveal much... but I found them by asking along the way

    enjoy your tour!

  15. #15
    Senior Member cyclezealot's Avatar
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    Way...Thanks for the pics....Good seeing that area...I hail from Michingan and My Dad was born in Toronto...Been to Pelee Park but not Pelee island..That picture of the Point, could have been the very end of Peelee Park where the peninsula comes to an end? Or Pelee Island...? One photo you did not capture...Ontario's tobacco fields? Those are always unexpected to me...Still there...?
    Your bike looks similiar to a 'Rockhopper.' Probably wise , allows you to use the shoulder a little more? Some photo's looked like Leamington...Still the ketchup capital?
    I am intriqued by Great Lakes island hopping...Ontario has the largest fresh water island in the whole world...Manitou Island?
    Be an interesting bike tour..Great Lakes islands... Only islands I have been to....Mackinac and Beaver out in Lake Michigan...Beaver Island...Liked to have had a mountain bike for exploration...Has some great isolated beaches...

  16. #16
    Senior Member cyclezealot's Avatar
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    Sigurd...I would go to Manitoulin Island just to sing and hear the Wainwright music....Great stuff...Think Wainwright Canadian..? Ironic your reply...As I was responding to 'Way' I referred to Manitou island as largest freshwater island..You spelling of Manitoulin is correct, I think...? Been awhile..
    Did you eat your way across the UP with Pastys...I miss those..

  17. #17
    1. e4 Nf6 Alekhine's Avatar
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    I live in Buffalo, literally 20 blocks from the big old Peace Bridge to Ft. Erie. I ride along the Canadian river road to Niagara Falls all the time. Unfortunately for you, I'm moving to Sacramento in June; otherwise, me casa, su casa...

    Personally, as a camper, I would take the Rainbow Bridge through Niagara Falls instead of the Peace Bridge, because the latter deposits you directly into the city of Buffalo--a city that is otherwise not worth seeing (I mean this. Buffalo proper doesn't even have a good bookstore, although there is some nice architecture and a couple of cultural things of note, particularly the Albright-Knox Art Gallery, which is one of the world's most legitimate; and also Premier Wine & Gourmet Superstore in Kenmore, which boasts one of the greatest purchaseable wine and liquor collections on the east coast. Buffalo really doesn't deserve these places).

    Anyway, here are my detailed impressions:

    The Peace Bridge is massively overcrowded with commerce and tourists, pretty much constantly in the summer. Ft Erie is a sort of commercial gateway, and the 18-wheelers are back-to-back. It directly accesses that aorta of Canadian megahighways, the QEW, and establishes a direct link to Toronto from Buffalo. One of the big industries in Fort Erie is its strip clubs, and Buffalonians can't get enough of them. Buffalo strip clubs typically have some fatty Brünhilde biker chicks who look like they could hold their own if the club suddenly morphed in a medieval battlefield, whereas Canadian strippers are not only feminine, but they are allowed to show their full material (NY has laws against anything but boobies). Why am I telling you this? Just to warn you to be on your guard against the extra-liquored traffic.

    For some of Ft Erie's fabled Chinese food, check out Ming Te restaurant. It's super easy to find. I don't even have to really give you very specific directions: take the Canadian side's Niagara River road (the road that is directly on the river...sort of hard to miss) from the peace bridge towards niagara falls, and you'll see it about 5 minutes from the P-Bridge in Ft Erie.

    It's a cinch to cross the Peace Bridge; just watch it, because the drop-off is unforgiving, should you be gazing at the massive river below and lose yourself... Going into Canada, there's a spiral bridge that leads to a small pedestrian checkpoint. The problem with that checkpoint is that it's often completely unmanned. This, of course, doesn't mean that you can just go through and on your way to River Road. You often *do* have to flag down a customs official, who will ask the usual "where are you from, where are you going, why are you going there, how long do you plan on staying..." questions. I once waited in the customs office for something like 10 minutes and got bored waiting for someone to show up, and just left. Big mistake. Fortunately, the guys who might have had my head on a platter were 100% cool about it, and they just sort of laughed at me and got on with their questions. You've just got to love Canadians. I have never been searched, even when I had my bike loaded to the hilt, but drivers are frequently pulled over and their cars are given the run-down, and I've heard stories of strip searches, but usually from people who were probably asking for it, including one semi-cokehead runway model. Anyway...

    If you're going the opposite way on the Peace Bridge, US customs is much more of an operation, but still quite simple. There is a control station that you will have to walk into, with a bike rack outside; they *will* ask for your ID and check it against their computer, and they will ask you more questions than the Canucks usually do...particularly if you are carrying travel gear. Nevertheless, they're very nice about it and they'll clear you in no time as long as you're not squirrely.

    Now...There is also the Rainbow Bridge at Niagara Falls. It is tiny comparatively, and much less used. It's a little odd though--I've actually had to use the normal car toll booths to get through a few times (and they made me pay the freaking $.50, the bastards!), but it usually is significantly quicker, and if anything, the toll-boothies are just amused at seeing a cyclist go through their little interrogations.

    THE US SIDES OF BOTH OF THESE BRIDGES ARE NOT THE BEST NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE WORLD, although in opposite ways: Buffalo's immediate neighborhood to the Peace Bridge is a sort of no-mans-land that sews up downtown and the west side. Depending on which direction you go, you could find yourself getting knocked off the bike by a gang of execrable teen thugs pretty quickly--learn Buffalo before you go through it. We have one of the nation's highest per capita homicide rates, but for the most part, they happen in two very specific areas. The Peace Bridge area is kind of saved from being the sort of area you don't want to be in by the bridge commerce itself and by D'Youville college; otherwise, it's a fairly high-crime area, and it sucks to bicycle in--crappy, busy roads, little or no shoulder, city stuff...

    Likewise, Niagara Falls US is a craphole, but it has about a 2-mile buffer from the Rainbow Bridge that is pretty much touristy--past that, you're in a rough neighborhood for an additional 2 miles or so. The Canadian side puts it to shame for the tourist thing by the way--it's like a miniVegas up on Clifton Hill (realize that I use the term 'tourist' here in its ordinary context, not ours). Lights, wax museums, bars, restaurants, hotels, casinos...a truly international scene, all based on a few huge arrays of gushing water.

    If you go over the Rainbow Bridge into the US, at least you're in the boonies within minutes--just head north-to-northeast from there--which is nice, because then you'll get to see the Niagara escarpment, which is a nice upper-Devonian era rock formation. I would suggest that unless you have a particular desire to see Fort Niagara, you head in as diagonal a path from Canada to Wilson as possible once you get over either bridge you eventually take, unless...

    ...if you are able, I HIGHLY advise detouring to Letchworth Park (The "Grand Canyon of the East") on the trip. Don't tell anyone what you're up to, and you can camp in the park indefinitely, in my experience, and it is gorge-eous!

    I may be able to arrange a night for you on my Dad's 32-foot sailboat, which is moored in Wilson NY, if you need a place to crash in that area, but don't hold me to it since I haven't even asked him and since the chances are extraordinarily slim. Dad did himself travel all the way to WVa by bicycle in the 1970s though, so maybe he'll be sympathetic...
    Last edited by Alekhine; 03-04-05 at 06:10 PM.

  18. #18
    ( d/dx (66x) )^(1/2) jfk32's Avatar
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    Wow! I'm overwhelmed by the response! I usually check these boards constantly when I post a message, but this time I just let it go a few days, and it looks like a lot of knowledgable people got into it.

    jnoble - Thanks for all the great specific information. I would be very interested in riding through London with you when I am in the area. I'll PM you and we'll talk a little about timing when the trip comes a little nearer (not going until May). As far as Niagra Falls goes, I think that I have been there 4 times now, I just don't really care to see it again, and it adds miles/km to my trip to go up there. Nice website, BTW, I had seen that before. I will definitely be keeping a journal, and I have a digital camera with memory cards to hold 450+ pictures at high quality, so yeah look forward to seeing my trip online once I get home. I thought about doing the whole public library/internet cafe thing and updating it as I go, but I decided that I want to focus on having a good time, not finding the nearest lightbox. I spend enough time in front of the things in my life.

    Alekhine - Something I may want to talk to you about some more is Buffalo and what routes you recommend for me. I will be coming up on Rt.5 most likely, will I be okay if I hug the coastline through that area? Keep in mind its me and a friend, I am 6 feet tall and we're both in shape (although I am aware that physical presence does nothing for people with guns or in large numbers). The tip about Letchworth will have to wait for another trip, as I don't think I can detour that far out, looking at it on a map. I may make a trip up to Rochester and back later in the summer (finger lakes!) so that would be a great destination.

    From what everyone else says, including what looks like Canadian natives, I shouldn't have a problem finding a place to pitch the tent in Ontario. Thats heartening. I think probably the hardest section will be when I ring around the lake on the American side, although like I said, I have stealth camped in some pretty dense areas before. It takes a little awareness, and a willingness to get up EARLY, thats all.
    Jason Kotenko

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  19. #19
    1. e4 Nf6 Alekhine's Avatar
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    Oh! You're coming up Rt. 5...

    OK. Yeah, it's a decent route; it's increasingly festooned with housing as you approach Buffalo from Dunkirk, though, so stealth camping will be potentially difficult for you along the lakefront as you approach the city. It's quite possible, however, and I've done it many times.

    The really good thing about the 5 is that it leads almost directly to the Peace Bridge and over into Canada, and you can avoid all but about 1 mile of the most downtown area of Buffalo between the 5 and the P-Bridge. Problem, though: After Hamburg, the 5 becomes a skyway, and bicycles aren't allowed on it. They certainly aren't safe on it, and you will have to detour through Lackawanna/South Buffalo a little bit before hitting downtown/west side proper, where the bridge is. During the day, you should be fine. Buffalo in this area isn't terribly dangerous, but I wouldn't necessarily go searching for quiet sidestreets here either.

  20. #20
    Still Newbie way124's Avatar
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    Yeah, thanks for all the write-up Alekhine. It is very useful

    I was having a hard time finding maps for the trip south of Erie (I would need 3 state maps) so I went to Google's map service and copied the images. Then I compiled them together to make a 6-page PDF. Should be useful. The zoom level is the 6th node from the top (I think about 2km/cm or 3.3miles/inch).

  21. #21
    ( d/dx (66x) )^(1/2) jfk32's Avatar
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    Way - I'm downloading your PDF now. The way I was planning on doing it was to get the Ohio county maps from their website, they are only 35 cents per county, and I need 10 counties the way I figure it ($3.50), and I need 5 counties in Michigan, and they are $1 a piece. I figure also that Canada I can get on the internet, Pennsylvania I can print off google, and I live here so I know most of what I need, and New York I am just going up Route 5 so I really don't care about having a map anyway.

    If you want any of the websites where I got all this stuff:

    OH - http://www.dot.state.oh.us/map1/default.asp - click on county map order form about halfway down the page.
    MI - http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,1607,...2174--,00.html
    Canada - http://atlas.gc.ca/site/english/ - site seems to be down right now but I think thats it.

    Looking at your PDF, I think that your map will be all I need for NY, because like I said, I will be staying on Route 5, with most likely finding campsites on a few sidestreets.
    Jason Kotenko

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  22. #22
    Senior Member cyclezealot's Avatar
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    How about the DeLorme map series...They do even the smallest of county roads..I have a couple of those..Great detail...Think it rare , that we have the Michelin series like they publish in Europe for cyclists..

  23. #23
    ( d/dx (66x) )^(1/2) jfk32's Avatar
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    The DeLorme maps look cool. Only problem is looking on their website they appear to be $20 bucks a piece. If I got MI, OH, and NY, thats 60 bucks, 80 if I get PA too. My maps are going to cost $8.50 plus the cost of printing the ones I am not ordering.

    Although I would love to have those maps... but its kind of like that 60 dollar cooking stove... I can make a cooking stove for free out of a pop can, or even buy a cheap one for 20.

    Instructions for pop-can stove: http://www.pcthiker.com/pages/gear/p...instruct.shtml

    (yes, I say "pop" now even though I grew up saying "soda". being this close to Ohio has poisoned my brain)
    Jason Kotenko

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  24. #24
    Senior Member cyclezealot's Avatar
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    JFK...A favorite Ohio phrase I heard living next door to Ohio,while growing up...."You's guys." an original phrase..Remember I was in Lima...Don't recall that phrase in Michigan.. Michiganians think Ohio is another world..Question...Are your local maps you are getting from local authorities detailed enough...
    Out here, some counties actually have maps for cyclists...Might that be the case for you ...DeLorme maps might be hard to carry...

  25. #25
    ( d/dx (66x) )^(1/2) jfk32's Avatar
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    I assume that they should be okay... the Ohio ones are the most important, and they are coming in 18''x24'' size, so thats pretty decent for how small ohio counties are. I imagine that all the pertinent smaller roads will be on there. If not, I have a really good head for direction and carry a compass, and with only larger roads on a map to guide me, it shouldn't be too much of a problem to get through, even if I have to ask directions a few times.
    Jason Kotenko

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