TouringN00b

Hi guys,
As you can tell from the name i'm new to this field of cycling but i've recently gotten hooked on the idea of going on a 2 month tour across Europe with an experienced friend of mine though my old MTB is nowhere up to the challenge so it's time to go shopping.

Could any of you be so kind as to point me in the direction of a touring bike that comes stock with integrated shifters (a must for personal reasons) and disc brakes (my friend swears by them). I can't seem to find any reasonably priced (< 1500 Euros) models with both.

I was thinking something along the lines of the Dawes Super Galaxy's setup but at a lower price point.
( https://www.dawescycles.com/p-795-super-galaxy.aspx )

I guess rim brakes are the norm in touring, are disc brakes not worth it? I hear they offer phenomenal stopping power.

Hope i posted this in the right section =D cheers.

Rootman

Need? NO. But they sure are great. Rim brakes are more than good enough for the vast majority of bicyclists needs. Disc brakes cost more and add weight to the bike.

I have a new Giant Roam 2 with hydraulic disc brakes and absolutely love them. They stop great, pull easier and are not effected by dirt or water on the rims. I will probably never get another bike that does not have disc brakes.

JoeMan

Yep agreed disc brakes are great. I have them (BB7)on my 2007 REI Safari. With front panniers and a BoB trailer attached stopping is not a problem going downhill.

cyccommute 

Are disc brakes worth it? No, not really. I've been doing loaded touring in mountainous areas for 30+ years without them. A properly adjusted quality cantilever brake is more than enough to slow a touring load down from 50 mph. The problem is that most cantilevers aren't properly adjusted. I have mountain bike with them but even there a hub mounted disc brake doesn't stop any better than a properly adjusted rim brake.

The other problem with hub disc brakes and touring bikes is rack mounting. There are ways to mount them but most of them are kluge jobs at best. Perhaps racks will improve but a rim brake equipped touring bike is still about the best design for attaching racks and bags to a bike for loaded touring. The bugs have been worked out through years of development.

Rowan

This is being discussed in great detail in another thread which appears just below this one. The OP would be advised to read it and understand the issues that are involved in installing disc brakes on road bikes.

cvskates

Disc brakes are totally worth it (to me). Not sure about the stock bike with discs and integrated shifters, but I'm no bike aficionado.

But I do love my disc brakes - especially screaming down a mountain when you're a big guy on a loaded touring bike.

oren_hershco

My 2 cents: HYDRAULIC disk brakes are truly superior to rim brakes. However, mechanical disk brakes will not necessarily improve your braking performance.
The best method of stopping a vehicle is a hydraulic disk brake. Wherever you see another type of brake, the reason is reduced costs. That's also true for cars and motorcycles. As a result, mechanical disk brakes are usually designed to be 'cheap', rather than 'good'.
I had a bad experience with Avid BB5. They stopped well WHEN they where tuned, but that didn't last very long. Any hydraulic Shimano outperforms them, and is much less hassle to live with.
If your budget is limited, don't stretch it for upgraded brakes. Your comfort during the tour will be influenced much more by other things, as good seat, high quality tires, good waterproof panniers etc.

jbphilly

I don't think you've used Avid BB7s - they get universally good reviews, and my set has worked flawlessly. A friend of mine has BB5s on his bike and they're not as adjustable; he was constantly having issues with his that could have been easily solved with the additional adjustability of BB7s.

Incidentally, the reason for choosing mechanical over hydraulic disc brakes is the lower maintenance/potential for failure, as far as I'm aware.

However, yes, disc brakes are more expensive, and no, you don't need them. If you can afford them and want them, go for it; but don't cheap out on essential items you might need in order to get, say, a Disc Trucker instead of an LHT.

LeeG

Given your budget I would find a bike that fits the best, handles the load you intend on carrying then go from there. You might find you fit a size between those available with the Dawes. Whether you have cantilever instead of disc, 30gears instead of 16 won't matter as much as you're knowing how to maintain and adjust the bike as well as ride a line.

Btw Dawes has lower cost disc touring bikes

spinnaker

And lets add complexity. When discs work they work great but when they fail you are in for a world of trouble. Cantilevers are simple, simple, simple. You can be the worst wrench in the world and still figure out how to get them working back to where it gets you on the road. Not the same for disc or at least not nearly as easy to fix.

OP BTW,

What are you going to do when you are a seasoned tourer like cyccommute? Name changes around here are forbidden!

TouringN00b

Thanks for the info guys (Y). I feel less guilty about skimping out on Disc brakes now

there is always more to learn

fietsbob

I have 2 bikes, fit for touring, they both can fit either, though, so far, I leave them, as I got them ..
1) has hydraulic rim brakes, the other has cable disc brakes .


are the discs worth it? that is an economic choice, answer: depends.. this going to see a 12 month use ?
winters may make the wet stopping better.. advantaged with discs..

sstorkel

I've used both Avid BB7s (road and mountain) as well as hydraulic disc brakes. While the BB7 is a nice brake, it's not much better than a good rim brake. Like all disc brakes, it performs better than a rim brake in wet weather but in terms of modulation and outright stopping power it's pretty similar to a good rim brake. FYI: the BB5 is adjustable, it's just not as adjustable as the BB7. The BB7 allows you to adjust the placement of both the fixed and movable brake pads. The BB5 only allows you to adjust one of the pads. In my experience, if the caliper is positioned properly you should only need to use the adjustments as the brake pads become worn or if you bend the brake disc.

I can't remember the last time I did anything to the hydraulic disc brakes on my mountain bike other than change the pads...

Cantilever brakes are encountered so rarely these days, I doubt your average LBS mechanic is going to know how to install and properly adjust them. Virtually every mountain bike sold comes equipped with disc brakes and mountain bikes outsell road (and touring!) bikes by a wide margin. So, when you walk into your LBS with a braking problem, they're much more likely to have Avid calipers and brake pads in stock and they're much more likely to know how to install or maintain them. My local shops might have pads that would fit a canti, but they certainly wouldn't have any calipers or parts in stock.

Rowan

You are aware that there are hydraulic rim brakes, and that rim brakes are in fact disc brakes?

The modern perception of disc brakes is borrowed heavily from the automotive industry.

The last couple of posts in the other thread sort of highlight the weight penalty for front disc brakes that go beyond the hardware.


That weight difference in forks is a real eye-opener, and you would have to consider whether that 3+ pounds is worth putting into stopping power, or into some other piece of touring equipment that might make life easier on the road.

ksisler

CC - Ditto, well said.

/K

fietsbob

my additional 2P .. try Magura's Hydraulic Rim Brakes , (hydrostop// HS 33 )

there are other systems you may want to try before such a sweeping generalization .

New this year Sram has a hydraulic master in the Brifter on their top tier race group
and offer a Hydraulic rim brake as well as a disc caliper.

Magura has a new race bike Hydraulic brake this year as well they went aero for that one
and only seem to offer a end of the aero bars type brake lever.

HS 33 bolts to V brake Bosses.. I have them on a trekking bike from NL.

sstorkel

A 3+ pound difference seems a bit difficult to swallow. Perhaps we should look at some real-world numbers? Surly makes two nearly identical cyclocross bikes: the disc-equipped Straggler and the cantilever-only Cross-Check. From their specs:

Surly Straggler disc-capable fork: 2.5lbs uncut
Surly Cross-Check canti fork: 2.3lbs uncut

Real-world weight weight penalty for a disc-capable fork: 0.2 pounds!

fietsbob

Not including the rest of the disc parts, you may be handicapped, touring
unless you start sawing tooth brushes off and sleeping cool , on bike tours,
if every gram is precious.

you may not even Need to go since those full water bottles are so Heavy ..

sstorkel

More numbers:

BB7 Road SL caliper: 170g
BB7 Road S caliper: 197g
BB7 Road Caliper: 329g
Avid HS1 160mm rotor + mounting bolts: 110g

Shorty 6 (cantilever) caliper: 157g
Shorty Ultimate (cantilever) caliper: 115g

Single Digit 7 (V-brake) caliper: 185g
Single Digit SL (V-brake) caliper: 165g

You can add up the numbers for yourselves, but it sure looks to me like the difference in weight isn't nearly as large as some seem to be claiming. Going from Shorty 6s to BB7 Road calipers, for example, only adds about 15 ounces. And as my frame building mentor would say when asked about ultra-light components and frames: "visit the outhouse in the morning before you get on the bike and you won't have to worry about the weight difference"

TouringN00b

Hey guys, OP here. Thanks for the lively discussion, wasn't expecting such a great response (Y). Hopped down to my local bike shop today and lo an behold he had a cyclocross bike with all the things i could have wanted. Drop bars, Shimano 105 STI, mounting points for panniers and even disc brakes for a great price! Needless to say i was quite chuffed and thinking this is almost too good to be true. What do you swell fellows think? It's a corratec c cross 105 disc. [ https://www.corratec.com/bikes/road/c...s/c-cross-disc ]. Hope it doesn't turn out to be papier mâché held together by hope.

sstorkel

Seems like it has standard road bike gearing (ex: 50/34 crank). You'll likely find that gearing too high for either touring or cyclocross usage. Cyclocross bikes also tend to have shorter chain stays and wheelbase than true touring bikes. That can make the handling nervous once you start to add luggage and could lead to heel strike issues when you mount panniers.

fietsbob

the bike may be OK for most every thing but touring , but IDK how much money you spend to travel

carry less spend more to sleep indoors at night. is the ratio.

question was do you NEED disc brakes , probably wrong question

as now you went for Carbon Frame and disc brakes on a Cross Bike

need went over the transom and was replaced by desire.

BTW, I See lots of people on all sorts of bikes Touring the Coast..

want to carry more gear Think Bike Trailer rather than anything more
than small set of panniers on a rack on that rocket.

TouringN00b

Firstly the frame is butted aluminium, only the fork is carbon. Also, i didn't really go for anything fancy. I just asked the dude at the shop what models have drop bars, STI, POSSIBLY disc brakes and suitable for touring and he pointed me to that corratec and he gave me a super deal which i really can't beat. I'm not a fan of carbon but i thought maybe i could just load it a little lighter on the front and all would be well.

Surely the crank can be modified, yes?

Rowan

It's good to know your real world is based on promotional material published on a website.

After these recall notices on the Pugsley forks, one wonder if Surly has in fact got the specs right on its other disc forks:

https://surlybikes.com/surlyforkrecall

It would seem that any fork with tapered blades and significant rake seems to be asking for trouble if it has disc brakes mounted to it. The issue really comes down to having a fork that is over-engineered for the additional forces that are applied on the blades that are quite capable of deforming to upset the handling as well as run the risk of breaking.

Have a look at cyclocross bike forks, and you won't see many, if any, with tapered and raked forks. There's a reason for that.

Frankly, now knowing the issues a little more intimately, I wouldn't touch the Straggler fork, and would settle only for a straight-blade unicrown fork with the resultant weight penalty... but not from Surly based on their failure to get it right with the Pugsley forks.

I also understand now the UCI's reluctance to permit disc brakes in road competition until the safety factor has been fully addressed.

Anyway, it seems the OP's eyes have been lured by a cyclocross bike.

The biggest issuse for him now should be fit and how the bike feels when he rides it, along with the gearing. But I suspect they are down the list compared with the lust for disc brakes, carbon fibre, and eyelets.

fietsbob

all you can do is change the chainring tooth counts..

other than that .. want a triple , you replace the whole crankset,

maybe you can keep the BB bearing assemblies.