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Old 10-23-13, 08:26 AM   #1
choteau
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"Eddy Fit" for touring bike?

"Eddy Fit" for touring bike?

Good morning, I'm looking to buy a bike I can use for road / maybe gravel touring. Have read everything I can find on fitting, haven't found anything/much "touring" specific. I need to ride fairly upright, (old back and neck injuries with limited range of motion). Had my wife do the measurements, then I ran the numbers thru the Competitive Cyclist fit program and came out with, 54.6 - 55 cm top tube and 60.6 - 61.1 ctt seat tube on the Eddy fit scale. The numbers look more like an older diamond frame to me. Being a clyde at 245 lbs and thinking about 35 lbs of gear puts me at 280 lbs the frame needs to support. I've been looking at the Surly LHT, it will handle the weight but the top tube is a "bit" long in my size. SO any ideas? Suggestions? Tim
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Old 10-23-13, 10:57 AM   #2
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As far as I can tell, all of the Competitive Cyclist fits are relatively aggressive. I used the "Eddy Fit" when I bought my last road bike. I ended up with a Cervelo RS frame, which falls in the "endurance" category rather than the "race" category. When I've been training, I can easily ride it for 6-7 hours without any issues. Early in the season, it's comfortable for 2-3 hours but after that it starts to get a bit uncomfortable (neck, shoulders, lower back).

My touring bike uses almost identical geometry to the (Eddy Fit) road bike. I reduced the stem length by 10mm, used a slightly less aggressive stem angle, and placed a few more spacers between the headset and stem. The overall riding position is slightly more upright, but still relatively aggressive by touring standards. The wheelbase is longer so it handles like a touring bike, though.

Based on what you've said, it sounds like the Eddy Fit may be too aggressive for you. My suggestion would be to take the numbers that you got from Competitive Cyclist and go sit on bikes at your LBS. They don't have to be touring bikes, as long as you know how their geometry compares to the numbers you got from CC. There's no substitute for sitting on an actual bike. I was surprised to find, for example, that their "French Fit" put me on a relatively large frame; there was less saddle to bar drop, but the reach to the bars had me pretty stretched out.

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Old 10-23-13, 12:53 PM   #3
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You Must be Young and Flexible.. I've kept moving my bars up and closer ..

off the shelf taller frame sizes are with longer top tubes..

a better fit may entail hiring a frame-builder to sort out a shorter top tube for the size .. combination.


Or (Oakridge) drop down the mountain and Visit Bike Friday in Eugene ,
a touring bike is not required to have great big wheels ,

Im OK with my Pocket Llama, I got one with the heavy rider option

a triangle for the main section rather than their 1 big oval tube..

It makes it easier to lock up. too..

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Old 10-23-13, 01:09 PM   #4
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Yep. Try them out for size. Then tweek to fit. Lots can be done. In the radical department, drops can be inverted for a more upright riding position. Minor is a longer, more upright stem. To get closer to the bar, move the saddle forward, or even change to an upright or even forward facing seat post. I've done most of that. A friend inverted the drops on a CF road bike and even added a cross bar. Aerobars on nearly anything can be a tourist best friend in headwinds and steep hills.
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Old 10-23-13, 05:29 PM   #5
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Cyclebum,
that may have worked for you but normally only as a last resort do you want to move your seat forward in order to reach the bar. The bent knee in relation to the crank is an important angle that you want to pay attention to for more efficient and healthier riding. Always shorten and raise your stem first if the top tube is too long for you. Trekking bars and even flat bars will also solve the too long top tube as well, if they can be used.

Last edited by robow; 10-23-13 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 10-23-13, 05:47 PM   #6
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robow, good point. It did work for me tho.

All the mods I ended up with on the 'Frankenbike' were the results of buying way before I knew much and trusting the LBS. It was not a real 'touring bike' to begin with, but over the years, I've turned it into one that is very comfortable. Way better to start with something that fits as close as possible at the get-go, and make a few minor tweeks as the miles reveal a need.

I've come full circle. DF-bent-DF. Recently bought myself a Felt time trail that does fit and use it for local fun rides. I did install a longer, upright stem to raise the bar and replaced the stock saddle with something more comfortable.

It's been an education in what can be done to turn a not-quite-right ride into one that is just right.
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Old 10-23-13, 06:57 PM   #7
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I bought some of these - in different sizes, of course - http://tinyurl.com/kyhh8lg

Returned the longer ones.

Context - I have long legs and shorter torso - fitted on a Disc Trucker.

Good luck with getting the fit.
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Old 10-23-13, 07:51 PM   #8
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I use a really short , threadless stem, 4.5 ~5cm, (& Trekking Bars)

there are even zero extension .
the headset pre load bolt, is accessed by removing the face plate, which is on top..
and removing the bars ..

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Old 10-24-13, 12:12 AM   #9
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My (58cm) LHT had a much longer top tube than my (56cm) road bike. Being higher at the front with bars level with the saddle vs 10cm of drop effectively shortens the bike. I'm 182cm tall.

Last edited by ekibayno; 10-24-13 at 12:12 AM. Reason: Fix typo
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Old 10-24-13, 06:19 AM   #10
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Tim, How well does your Miyata fit? If well, it is your best guide for a touring fit.

My initial T bike build essentially had the same set-up as my then distance roadie and became a little less aggressive with mileage. This maybe due to my sight seeing attitude while riding it, but it also increases it's versatility.

In the past 40 years I've read dozens of fit guides and honestly didn't understand some of the authors' logic. One thing apparent with so many schemes is that there is no one true method. Over time I've come to consider the saddle/pedal relationship and TT length as the basis of a proper fit.

Brad

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Old 10-24-13, 07:54 AM   #11
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Thanks to all who responded, I bought the Miyata to be a tourer but can't get it comfortable! I've tried a setback seatpost, longer cranks, Nitto tall stem, trekking and northroad bars. Played with seat tilt, fore/aft and angle. Tried bar height and width adjustments. Put my B67 on it. Still not as comfortable as my old roadster or 3 speed. Tim
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Old 10-24-13, 08:40 AM   #12
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Maybe time to go custom. I know a guy who had a bad neck injury once and needed a very upright position. He had Spectrum build him a road bike to his liking. The position looks incredibly strange, but it works fro him and he is a very fast rider.

Crossed the country with a septagenarian who inverted his drop bars for neck reasons. While I am not saying it cannot be done, his was not a very stable set up. It caused him at least two falls due to lack of weight/pressure on the front. Like you, he was a tall man. Maybe more gear weight on the front would have helped him.

You are in Oakridge, OR. (Jealous. Spent the night there during CO in 2007 and rode Aufderheide to Rainbow the next day. Drove through on the way to the start of CO in 2012. "It feels so good to be back here at the Dexter Lake Club." ) Co-Motion is your neighbor.
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Old 10-24-13, 01:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choteau View Post
Still not as comfortable as my old roadster or 3 speed. Tim
are either of those bikes available to take measurements from?
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Old 10-24-13, 01:35 PM   #14
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I have the same issue as you do, at least from the info you provided, I think I do. I am about 6' with a 35" inseam- all legs and a short torso. A 58 or 60 cm seat tube and a 55 cm top tube were recommended during a fit several years ago. I have a 58 cm LHT and the TT is longer than I prefer. I've ridden it on several long tours, and it is OK, but just "not right". I doubt if you will find that comination, 60 cm ST/55 cm TT, on any stock bike. I've looked hard at most stock bikes on the market, and have not found one with that short of TT.

However, I did pick up a Cannondale T2 (size L)this spring and it has a much shorter TT for an approximate 58 cm seat tube length. The frame has compact geometry so it is really hard to measure the effective seat tube height. I have about 2500 miles on it so far, and it fits better than the LHT. Fit was the primary reason I bought this bike. Also, it was a 2010, the last year Cannondale made their bikes in the USA. Unfortunately, Cannondale also quit making touring bikes in 2010. Depending on your height, you might keep on the lookout for a used L or XL frame.

Bruce Gordon's Basic Loaded Touring bike has a shorter top tube in relation to the seat tube, but I think he does not have any of the larger frames left. The largest he has left is equivalent to 57-58 cm. This would work for me, but depending on your height might not fit you.

My wife rides a custom Co-Motion, and it is a great bike. I was seriously considering going down to their shop and talk to them until I found the Cannondale. They make a great bike and their customer service is excellent.

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Old 10-24-13, 03:16 PM   #15
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I just measured all 3 bikes center to center: the Miyata has a 57cm top tube and 40 3/4" wheelbase, the old roadster is 60cm with a 46" wheelbase, and the Azuki (converted from 10 to 3 speed) has a 62cm top tube and 44" wheelbase.
Maybe the Eddy Fit is all wrong? Also all 3 bikes have 25" center to top seat tubes.
Doug, I'm about 6' 1" and 35" inseam, yea long legs and short torso (old back injury and surgery). Tim

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Old 10-24-13, 06:14 PM   #16
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Personally I think seat tube length is irrelevant. So long as you can stand over the top tube, saddle height is the most easily adjusted dimension on a bike.

More and more bike manufacturers are turning toward the stack and reach dimensions as the most reliable sizing guide. There is an interesting article about this approach here.

Using these dimensions I have been able to compare all my bikes with interesting results, and now understand much better the dimensional differences between my roadie, MTB, drop bar tourer and flat bar tourer, and can relate these differences to my comfort level.


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Old 10-24-13, 06:56 PM   #17
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plumb line through the BB or 'central movement' divides the cockpit into saddle setback & reach ..

then the wheel size wont really matter , there its key.
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Old 10-26-13, 04:54 AM   #18
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Choteau, it's great that you're using data to start to see why these bikes do not feel the same, but you need to look at seat tube angle, seat lug setback, or saddle setback to really understand how your saddle position varies among these bikes. In the old days of level top tubes, frame size mattered because a higher top tube (bigger frame) usually implied less standover clearance, higher bar position, and longer top tube. With more modern sloped-top designs, seat tube height really doesn't matter. Seat tube angle does, and always has since it controls how far back from the BB plumb line you'll have to sit, and whether your best target posiiton is within the adjustment range for any given frame.

After that, top tube with stem and handle bar design affect how far you'll have to reach. Head tube length or frame stack affect how high above ground, and hence above/below your saddle, your handlebars need to be. But the criteria for saddle position, reach, and bar height above/below the saddle are based on your body geometry, flexibility/limitations, and actual/goal riding style.
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