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Old 12-22-13, 07:56 PM   #1
Tandem Tom
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Strapping down a rear dry bag?

If you use a rear dry bag across the top of your panniers how do you secure it? This year I bought some Parachute buckles and used lengths of old inner tubes to make elastic straps. We used nylon straps with buckles while touring for the month of July in Denmark but I found these a bit tedious to use.
What do you use?
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Old 12-22-13, 09:51 PM   #2
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I have been using these home made bungee cords for the last 15,000 miles without a problem. They are fabricated from high quality 3/16" shock cord. I plan on making a set out of 1/4" when these wear out. They are easy to use, hold the bag well, and were cheap to make. I have crashed several times, and they hold the bag remarkably well in all sorts of postitions
[/URL]

Same bike different bag. You'd be surprised how much junk can be crammed under those little bungees, including a trashed tire looking for a trash bin.


Different bike, same bag, same bungees

Last edited by Doug64; 12-22-13 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 12-22-13, 10:10 PM   #3
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I like Arno straps: http://www.coghlans.com/products/48-...no-straps-8448

They snug up tight and secure.

Here's a sleeping pad plus a bear canister, strapped with one of those:




Last edited by Jim Kukula; 12-22-13 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 12-22-13, 10:17 PM   #4
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PS. These are the "makings" for the above cords. This was for a pair I was making for my daughter last year.

The shockcord and hooks were purchase at Rainshed, Albany, OR.
http://www.therainshed.com/default.htm



Just remove the little clip from the hook and assemble in about 2 minutes.

Last edited by Doug64; 12-23-13 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 12-23-13, 08:48 AM   #5
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Hi Jim

Could you provide detail on your handlebar bag and its attachment? Is ti a DIY mount?

Thanks
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Old 12-23-13, 09:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
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Hi Jim

Could you provide detail on your handlebar bag and its attachment? Is ti a DIY mount?

Thanks
I am not Jim, but I think I can answer part of the question. It looks like the attachment is the Thorn Accessory Bar. I believe only available from SJS in UK.
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/page/find...y%20bar&page=1

It is common to use a second stem with a short section of handlebar tubing to serve the same purpose. I have the Thorn Accessory Bar on one of my bikes.
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Old 12-23-13, 10:28 AM   #7
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ah but have you a thorn attached to the accessory bar thats the question,

i honestly thing the best think to tie down stuff it an old inner tube if you don't believe me try it and see..
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Old 12-23-13, 11:38 AM   #8
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Fastex makes a double ladderlock buckle , no sewing required, it/them and a length/s of webbing work well .

you can cinch down both ends of the strap..

via Doug's store link it's called a "dual acting tabler", [acetal is the plastic type]

Last edited by fietsbob; 12-23-13 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 12-23-13, 11:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
. It looks like the attachment is the Thorn Accessory Bar.
Exactly so. It's a Carradice SuperC handlebar bag which uses a KLICKfix attachment which I have mounted to a Thorn accessory bar.

Here's a close-up:

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Old 12-23-13, 12:29 PM   #10
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excellent set up jim.
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Old 12-23-13, 01:47 PM   #11
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SHOCK CORDS ARE DANGEROUS.

S H O C K C O R D S A R E D A N G E R ---------0-]

search to Seattle Fabrics, find poly strapping and steel cam buckles, polyester thread, heavy duty needles, a hardwood square for pushing needles thru.

we all over here at sea kayaking/down river rafting use straps and cams. search to NRS.

Wal sells cam straps in RV. Good for light loads in unstressed conditions eg the interstate at 70 bringing a very soft feel for Royalex canoes/showboats but the DIY from SF is better or buy a string from NRS.

NRS strap loops holding the cam are sewn in an X bordered with a square.

An 18' kayak sits on my van's roof. Cam straps hold the yak down during tornadic microbursts with the yak moving fractions sounding squee squee on foam blocks. Straps are looped around yak then snugged.

BTW, if stuffing a rack bag is the goal, u-bolt plywood onto the rack top then add a military duffel from Campmor.com: max capacity at lowest most durable costs.

You make the u bolts with aluminum strap, bolting thru ply to straps over rack members.

An excellent test of rack supports strength's ! Sticky tires thru a slalom.

63210 at

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/...exsport+duffel

Last edited by BLYTZPK; 12-23-13 at 02:13 PM. Reason: forgot
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Old 12-23-13, 04:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLYTZPK View Post
SHOCK CORDS ARE DANGEROUS.

S H O C K C O R D S A R E D A N G E R ---------0-]

search to Seattle Fabrics, find poly strapping and steel cam buckles, polyester thread, heavy duty needles, a hardwood square for pushing needles thru.

we all over here at sea kayaking/down river rafting use straps and cams. search to NRS.

Wal sells cam straps in RV. Good for light loads in unstressed conditions eg the interstate at 70 bringing a very soft feel for Royalex canoes/showboats but the DIY from SF is better or buy a string from NRS.

NRS strap loops holding the cam are sewn in an X bordered with a square.

An 18' kayak sits on my van's roof. Cam straps hold the yak down during tornadic microbursts with the yak moving fractions sounding squee squee on foam blocks. Straps are looped around yak then snugged.

BTW, if stuffing a rack bag is the goal, u-bolt plywood onto the rack top then add a military duffel from Campmor.com: max capacity at lowest most durable costs.

You make the u bolts with aluminum strap, bolting thru ply to straps over rack members.

An excellent test of rack supports strength's ! Sticky tires thru a slalom.

63210 at

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/...exsport+duffel

I agree with you when hauling canoes at highway speeds. I use 1" tubular nylon webbing, the same webbing I use in mountaineering, to secure my 50 pound boat to my truck. I just use a loop over the boat secured with 3-4 half hitches, and it travels nicely. Even then, I think the 4500 pound breaking strength is overkill, but I have a lot of it that I no longer consider safe for climbing, and this is a good way to recycle it.

I've transported canoes a lot with just 2 webbing straps attached to my roof rack.



However, for hauling a 10 pound rack bag on my bike at 10- 15 mph with maybe a few downhill 40 mph thrown in, the bungee cords work fine for me. I have been using a variation of the ones I use now for over 40 years and have never had a dangerous situation caused by the bungees. I'm not hanging off the side of a rock face on them, just holding a bag to my bike.

Why do you think bungee cords are so dangerous?

Last edited by Doug64; 12-23-13 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 12-23-13, 04:28 PM   #13
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I use inner tube, specifically mid-size 700c (25-32 tyre size). It is strong, reliable, secure and cheap.
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Old 12-23-13, 04:31 PM   #14
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I thought his thread was about strapping down a dry bag on a rear rack. The Ortlieb Rack Pack Dry Bag and pannier examples are designed to connect to each other and cinch down for security. No additional straps or bungees needed unless you are talking about holding down other loose things back there.
I long ago eliminated unreliable (in my experience) bungee cords in favor of nylon straps with Fastex or similar buckles. As with BLYTZPK I transferred my experience with hold down straps from sea kayaks to bike touring with great success. ( I do recognize that improved design and materials have made for better bungee cords and hooks but this old dog is probably not going to experiment with them.)

If dry bag tie down is still a topic of this thread I would offer a different solution. Many newer lightweight dry bags are somewhat fragile when exposed to UV sunlight and abrasion in contact with racks and other fittings. They lose their dry bag status quickly at times. To protect the dry bag I enclose it in a stronger larger stuff sack on which I have sewn on several web straps with buckles. Rather than attaching it perpendicular to the rack I align it with the axis of the rack and thread the straps under the rack rails and clip the buckle ends together and cinch down tightly. This setup has worked for me over the last thirty years on and off pavement. And my dry bags have lasted for decades as well.

Over the years I have reduced the weight and volume I carry to the point that two smaller front panniers and a medium sized dry bag on top of the rear rack handles all of my touring needs for short and extended tours like the Divide Ride. The front of the stuff sack shell holds my sometimes wet shelter and rain gear while the dry bag carries all clothes, sleeping gear, pads safe from moisture.

Just my 4 cents worth.
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Old 12-23-13, 06:43 PM   #15
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Polypropylene doesn't stretch, holds ? beyond the pull/yield capacity of 'normal' wind forces. Florida's Panhandle frequently sees tornado, I've been in two, one with the yak. No problem. I pulled off, sat the wind out while local traffic pressed on.

There's only one loose strap end off the clamp n you tie that down.

Why no shock cords ? CAWS I'M TIRED OF PICKING THE DAMN THINGS OUT OF THE REAR WHEEL !

As for shock cording a $4000 kayak at 70 mph....whoaaa! I have watched thus go on tho so I ask 'uh why the shock cords' ( no tie knot?) and get the usual....'Oh I'm only going around the block.'


Right. I see the value of posting as a general read but yes dry bags. I am butt deep in dry bags. I assume you're posting about vinyl dry bags. I would not strap over a dry bag either. My dry bags are treated like Ming Vase.


Vinyl glue is permanent. Try gluing tabs onto the bag. See Seattle Fabrics, get a heavy vinyl sheet, cut tabs, glue couple layers together and glue a reinforcing square onto the bag then glue the tab on. Sew/glue grommets into tabs. Vynabond. Locktite is selling a wide spectrum adhesive at Wal includes vinyl. Used the Locktite on nylon thru hull fittings and IT WORKED !

You would do this with an in position filled bag.

Other vinyl bag owners treat bags like dirt. I assume these bags leak before mine will but then there's the glue.


could be a net over an outer bag with a garbage bag liner for slipperiness would be the trick. UC sells nets.

Last edited by BLYTZPK; 12-23-13 at 06:48 PM. Reason: can spel
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Old 12-23-13, 07:14 PM   #16
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I use tie down straps similar to this one ... just shorter - one metre or less in length.



Andrew
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Old 12-23-13, 10:05 PM   #17
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http://www.seattlefabrics.com/cam_buckles.html

pooor metal cam photo. The cam is well cast, brightly plated and tightly assembled.

cargo net will spread load over outer bag...no vinyl damage.

great idea. I'm in...


http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...&category=3536

Last edited by BLYTZPK; 12-23-13 at 10:07 PM. Reason: low IQ
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Old 12-23-13, 10:30 PM   #18
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I use Sea to Summit Accesory Straps http://www.seatosummit.com/products/display/156. I don't like bungees because they allow the load to shift somewhat.
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Old 12-24-13, 07:01 AM   #19
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bag shift...yes ! I was trying to write that but couldn't. The bag shifts then the shock cord loosens falling into the rear wheel. Inevetibale.

Riders not experiencing the problem may have a well positioned light load within the cord's yield spec that is maybe the cord isn't holding the bag down from falling off.
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Old 12-24-13, 12:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
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bag shift...yes ! I was trying to write that but couldn't. The bag shifts then the shock cord loosens falling into the rear wheel. Inevetibale.

Riders not experiencing the problem may have a well positioned light load within the cord's yield spec that is maybe the cord isn't holding the bag down from falling off.
I don't think it inevitable. My dry bag does not noticeably shift, and it has never come of the rack even in a crash. The rack and the panniers make a nice platform for the rack pack, and there is really nowhere for it to shift.

On a tour a couple of years ago part of our route took us over 400 miles of unpaved roads and trails and over 500 mile of cobblestone roads and trails. No problems at all.

I think people should use whatever they are the most comfortable with. My wife uses a different system from mine.


We each carry a 5' long 1/2" tubular nylon strap, with Fastex sidelock buckles, that we call ferry straps. We use it on ferries and trains to secure the bikes to the railings, racks etc. If I think I need extra restraint or hauling firewood in a campground, I could always use that. It is the red strap on the top tube in the middle picture of my first post.

Last edited by Doug64; 12-24-13 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 12-24-13, 06:06 PM   #21
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what is the weight back there Doug ?

the shock cords are more cargo net.
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Old 12-24-13, 08:24 PM   #22
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Surly's Junk straps are good .. its a really long toe strap. Same nylon webbing and Buckle.
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Old 12-24-13, 08:39 PM   #23
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what is the weight back there Doug ?

the shock cords are more cargo net.
Not very much weight; she generally carries about 7-10 pounds in her rack pack. Her running shoes are usually tucked under the rack pack. There is only 25 pounds total on her bike, not counting water and the 2 ears of corn It is a commercial made cargo net, and she likes it. She even has our 2 daughters using them. She bought them a set before our annual family tour last summer which really influenced their choices.

I do have to admit it does work fairly well. She carries one of the nets in her "around town bike's pannier. She loaned it to me one day when we rode to the post office to pick up mail. A large part for my table saw was waiting for me. It was a 6" x 6" x 32" box weighing about 25 pounds. It was an awkward load and did shift around a bit coming home. I believe it is probably more secure than the setup I use.


Last edited by Doug64; 12-25-13 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 12-25-13, 10:42 AM   #24
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the red/yellow vinyl back bags hold 25 pounds ?

those long package go in a duffel. Duffel then sits vertical on rack strapped to your torso with a cam strap.
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Old 12-26-13, 11:45 PM   #25
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strings and bungee

It took me years to think of this one, but when I finally came up with the idea I was happily impressed. I used to use three bungees, but my new system is half the weight, easier to use and a lot cleaner.

I tied 4 inch loops around the rack and then run a bungee through the ends of the loops. There isn't much tension on the bungee, so I'm not afraid of it snapping.

It holds my tent, sleeping bag, pad; all wrapped up in a 9' x 12' clear plastic sheet. The plastic sheet (painter's drop cloth) doubles as a tarp over my campsite at night. 4 ounces and needs to be replaced every 2000 miles or so.

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