dh024

The bags are quite a bit smaller than most panniers, so yes, they ride a bit higher and have better heel clearance:

mm718

Thanks, djb. It sounds like not removing the bags may be the best way to go. It's been a while since I've changed a tire and NOT flipped the bike but I wonder if simply unhooking the drive side pannier's hook and flipping the pannier over on top of the rack would help to change the wheel when NOT flipping the bike. Like I said it's been a while so I don't if this makes sense...

mm718

Nice photos, dh. How do you like the dry lites overall?

dh024

Absolutely love them. They are small, which could be very limiting for some people, but they suit my needs well and are very versatile. They are about the same weight as bikepacking gear, and they also work wonderfully on my touring bike. Plus, they are simple in design with nothing to break or malfunction. Easy to take on and off, and being soft-sided, they pack well off the bike. They don't bang around like normal panniers because they are a soft attachment, which distributes the weight well on the rack - so they work much, much better off-road than my standard clip-on panniers. Unless you need large, extra-durable bags, they are definitely worth a look.

mm718

Thanks for the info! I am excited to give the a try.

jvt

I second dh024. I have a set and use them regularly on my commuter bike as well as for bike packing and on road touring. Light, water proof, simple to get on and off, and easy to carry on planes. They are the only panniers I use regularly, and other than a dry bag or two strapped on to of my rear rack, I don't have an other bags.

AvenirFolder

If folks are looking for a photo of Nicolai's GDMBR Dry-Lite front and rear rig, have a gander at this page: https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/...id=386609&v=Dy (click on photo and enlarge for detail).

nicolaim

Did I hear my name?

I used the Tubus Swing front rack. This rack is discontinued, but on sale on eBay (Germany) once in a while. I like this rack because it puts the weight on the suspended part of the fork (the crown) rather than the lowers. The rack is heavy though (~800 g,) so next time I would try to somehow reduce my load (easier said than done!) and use one of those big bikepacking sausage bags on the handlebar. The latter would have several drawbacks though: much less capacity, probably no space for my handlebar bag, and I would have to re-do my brake/shifter cabling to make space for the sausage.

Since the Dry-Lites plus a simple aluminum rear rack weigh so little I don't see much reason to avoid using them on the rear of a hardtail. The main drawback of the Dry-Lites is that removing and installing them is a pain, so they're best left on the bike.

My handlebar bag is the Axiom Adirondack, which I chose for its volume to weight ratio. Not waterproof, so maybe not the best for foul weather. I used double Ziploc bags inside when it rained. Main drawback is the same as the Dry-Lites, it takes some time to attach and detach.

Between the aerobar bars I used a Jandd Mesh Torpedo bag. This held my camera and sometimes a snack or gloves. I would have preferred something larger.

AvenirFolder

Hey, thanks a bunch for those photos! I was trying to figure out what your rig looked like from Daniel's photos but it was tough going even enlarging them to the max. Yours was the first rig that I'd seen that used the double set-up, especially for the GDMBR.

Info for the masses regarding the Dry-Lite sizing/capacity: You were spot on when you guesstimated 25 litres as their maximum capacity. I hounded Arkel a couple of years ago to drop their outrageous claim of 32L and they finally gave in. I never bothered filling one with water to confirm the true capacity at that time but knew dang well that it wasn't 32 L. Today, after finally repairing my original substandard pair (like yours, mine fell apart at the seams and the velcro pulled out) I filled one up with water and -- drum roll please -- it took 12.5L with the necessary double roll of the top for closure. No big surprise there.

Arkel, bless 'em, did replace my early originals with the brand spanking new version and I was likely one of the first to get my hands on them and give them a go (they were fresh off the boat from China). The material they now use is the same as the higher end Dolphin series and is really good stuff. I hand-sewed the stripped areas of the old version and then used silicone sealant over the threaded area plus a couple of other spots (like where I accidentally poked the needle through the fabric while doing the repair :-). A simple way to beef up the old Dry-Lites is to use a light pack liner inside of them: https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5043-855/Pack-Liner (the earlier version weighed 88gr/3 oz). In fact, you could do the same with the new ones, too, if a rough trip was in order.

Someone from Calgary upthread claimed that the Dry-Lites "are simple in design with nothing to break or malfunction". Actually, even the new Dry-Lites have an Achilles heel and it's this: the silly cheap wooden dowels used in those pockets to brace the panniers up against the racks. I've had two of them break -- once because of a knot in the wood and another time from repeated use (and likely the velcro straps were going at that time so there was some play). When the dowel broke the little pannier swung around my rack struts and ended up twisting into my rear spokes. Not a pleasant thing to happen but thankfully I was going slow at the time and stopped instantly. I tried convincing Arkel to replace the dowels with a fibreglass wand like Revelate Designs uses on their front harness but they never bit. I recommend checking those hidden dowels before purchasing the panniers and seeing if they have any weak spots. If you go to Wally Mart, lightweight metal chopsticks are available and you could cut them short enough to slide in those pockets as a safety catch. At a minimum, I'd carry one spare dowel on any long trip otherwise (and, yes, you could whittle one on the side of the road but it might be tough out in the Red Desert).

Bonus: due to that Dry-Lite swinging into my spokes, I went out and bought a Tubus Logo rear rack so there was no way that crap could be repeated.

BTW I used the Revelate harness for awhile but found the rig crowded my handlebar too much -- since I also have the gas tank and two feedbags -- and disliked the weight that high up. I switched to a Nitto M18, managed to break the tang on that due to metal stress/fatigue/flex and ended up with the whole shebang pivoting in front of me in a split second (again, luckily I was going slow so no injury). Next up as a replacement is a reinforced porteur rack (VO with Surly rear rack upper kit support to the fork so no future pivoting) and the same old 20L dry bag with a Revelate large pocket around it and strapped down with an Arkel map case on top. Simple and tough and it holds almost what two Dry-Lites do. I have that Seal Line dry bag mounted sideways across the porteur rack and it holds all my night stuff -- my tent, sleeping bag, Neoair pad, down jacket, and sleep clothes.

djb

Neat info mr future. Mine don't get much use but I still think they are a great lightweight alternative

AvenirFolder

They are indeed a great lightweight alternative -- but they aren't perfect. Although with the new tougher version, Arkel is approaching that goal. Another benefit/advantage to the Dry-Lites is that they don't dig into your leg as much during a steep hike-a-bike since the little 'uns sit back further and generally higher up. Coincidentally, my new front porteur rack can also handle a couple of small panniers -- like the (repaired) kind that can be folded away for possible future use lugging extra water or lightweight bulky food etc. I might even break down and pull a "Nicolai" (or a dh024) and do a "double up" and ditch the big Seal Line dry bag since the weight would be lower up front. I'm fiddling with the set up right now to see what I can come up with for the best GDMBR combo.

Question for Nicolai: On a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate your Dry-Lite 'double up' rig for the GDMBR? Based on your previous comments they seemed to have worked fine even though they were the substandard original version.

nicolaim

Not sure about a number, but I would use them again without hesitation. I was just a bit jealous of the rare riders with a lighter load, so I'd look into other options on the front next time, but I do think I struck a decent balance between comfort and minimalism.
I really needed all the space I had because my tent (Black Diamond Firstlight) didn't pack super small and leaked like a sieve, so I also had a cuben fiber tarp. I also like to eat well, so I carried quite a bit of real food. An important factor is how fast you ride; on the second half without my girlfriend I was riding ~90+ km/day, which meant I sometimes needed three or four days of food. One day in NM I had 6 or 7 litres of water. If you're slower, you'll need more space, less if you're faster.
I don't know if the elastic on the revised panniers is the same as on the originals. Mine weren't tight enough for my taste, so I added a knot into each to prevent the panniers from bouncing.
I'm sorry I never posted a photo of how I reinforced the attachment with the D-rings, so I'll try to explain again here: Tie the left and right D-rings together with some cord or an adjustable strap so that the load is distributed between the velcro straps and the D-rings. This also prevents the rear bottom corners of the panniers from bouncing into your spokes since everything is tighter - a big plus!
Pack carefully so hard objects don't cause the friction points where the panniers contact your rack struts. I ended up with one or two small holes because I wasn't careful.
With the little velcro straps holding the panniers fore-aft position on the racks and the knotted elastics, removing the panniers is a bit of a hassle, so better to just leave them on the bike.
I think it's a good idea to bring a sturdy needle, strong thread, and a thimble (essential!) in case a repair is necessary.

fietsbob

I have come to prefer Pannier mounting schemes that are more solid than a Bungee elastic cord and a Hook .

AvenirFolder

Thanks for that! The bungies on the two versions are identical (I just had a look at mine side by side). The obvious clue when trying to figure out which version of the little pannier you're looking at is this: the new improved Dry-Lites use a slightly heavier material with a square grid pattern over the surface. This is the same waterproof material that the larger Dolphin 32s and 48s are made of: Arkel - Dry-Lites - Ultralite Saddle bags - ONLY 540 grams!! + Dolphin 48 - waterproof and functional panniers for touring (zoom in for a better look at the exteriors).

I echo the comments about the needle, thread and thimble but warn that most of the modern versions coming out of China are junk. I snapped four needles doing the Dry-Lite repairs and also pierced a thimble. My old thimble held up fine -- it was a new one that couldn't stand up to the heavy pushing. So put a set of smalll pliers on that list as well (my Leatherman comes with one) and use it to "guide" the needle through the layered material by holding it by the shaft. Even then I think I snapped a couple of needles due to the poorer quality these days.

One last thing: the chopsticks I mentioned for beefing up the wooden dowels were hollow stainless steel and sold as a set of 5 pairs (brand name Sunwealth at my local Wally Mart). I chopped them down in size to match the dowel length and then slid two into each pocket next to the questionable wood versions (the "chopped sticks" were wrapped together with Gorilla tape and dabbed with silicone sealant at the cut ends to prevent water/gunk entry). You'll have a pair of chopsticks left over for eating -- or just carry a single one for picking up any thrown or errant dirty chains. Much better than fingers or (non-existent?) twigs.

BTW How fast were you going when your girlfriend was with you on the first half of the trip? Can you remember your average daily mileage then?

Thanks again for your insightful post-GDMBR comments.

djb

Just want to add that as someone using these in pretty much regular or more common touring surfaces, paved of usually average quality, and some dirt trails(not overly bumpy) I found the bungee hook system to be perfectly adequate, in fact much stronger than my experience with older panniers with bungee hook. Of course rack height from flat to lower hook area plays a part, but I think in general the dry lites work perfectly adequate in non rough riding surfaces with much less bike movement such as this specific route type.

nicolaim

That's what I thought until the Dry-Lites kind of survived the GDMBR with only one broken bungee. (I had knots in them for extra tension.) No rattling, and the panniers were very secure.

fietsbob

But a Bungee did Break ..

I put 10 + years of touring in, with a strap & buckle design that synched down Tight

Now Klick Fix Is hardware used by several Brands the top hooks lock over the rack rail

I have Ortlieb as a utility bags .. We see Hundreds of Cycle tourists They seem to be the Most Common .

nicolaim

I keep forgetting to say something about the dowels. I'm not sure if they beefed them up on the revised Dry-Lites, but I vaguely remember at least one broken dowel on my originals. Several of the dowels looked trashed by the end of the ride.

As to your second question, I'll have to look at my notes, but I think we were covering 60-70 km on a typical day, with a max in the low 90s and a low around 50 km. We're not early risers, we sleep a lot, and we're not very efficient around camp, so YMMV, hehe. I'm quite proud of my girlfriend because she joined the trip somewhat at the last minute and hadn't trained. We started in Jasper, which allowed us to ease in to the ride on pavement. After detouring into Yellowstone for a few days she had to fly home from Jackson Hole to start a new job. I'll have to ride the Colorado section with her one day.

She also had Dry-Lites, of course, on the rear rack, and nothing in the front. That reminds me of an important thing I probably neglected to mention: In Jackson Hole I swapped one pair of panniers with her since hers looked in better shape. This means one of my pairs at the end of the ride had a somewhat easier life on the first half of the ride since the load was lighter.

AvenirFolder

The dowels look the same in the new version of the Dry-Lites. As I said, I tried to convince Arkel to swap to a fibreglass wand like Revelate Designs uses in its front handlebar harness -- it flexes slightly but will likely never break -- but they didn't change anything. Hacksawed metal chopsticks are one way to beef up the struts and I suppose a person could also fibreglass the exterior of the dowels if they were really looking to muscle up. Consumer cyclists shouldn't have to do all that work, though. It would be a relatively simple and inexpensive fix to use fibreglass wands/dowels as standard equipment.

Something else: If you're wondering how the aerodynamic profiles of the 25L Arkel Dry-Lites and the 40L Ortliebs differ, sift through the photos in Daniel Simes' Flanagan's Ride of the Great Divide and you'll see almost identical angles of Nicolai's girlfriend and Anna Williams on their respective bikes with the panniers behind their legs. The Dry-Lites really do tuck in neatly behind without much of an "aero" drag.

BTW Ortliebs are not perfect either: https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/...page_id=321316 . Tim is currently thrashing his some more on the GDMBR.

djb

I would also add that in my opinion, Ortlieb bolt loosening etc is by and large the result of either the parts not being tightened properly, and or people never thinking to check things during a trip. Certainly in my experience of touring and commuting for 25+ years, rack bolts and stuff needs to be checked on periodically, as all stuff tends to loosen from vibrations.
I have used Ortlieb panniers since the early 90s and the newer rear rollers I got maybe 4 or 5 years ago certainly did loosen up a bit during a trip, the main two mounting hook bolts, but I see these as no different than being observant and checking on any other bike parts that tend to loosen up with the bings and bangs of riding (even more so obviously on rough roads, which is being discussed here)
My "loosening" experiences have all been pretty much on road, and not even on really really bad roads.

and yes, the slimmer profile of the dry-lites does make a diff with headwinds, so if you can keep your packing small and use only them, it certainly is an improvement over bigger panniers (but with the obvious compromises of space/toughness etc)

BigAura

That's an endorsement? Hmmmm.

nicolaim

I really beat the s**t out of the panniers by riding quite aggressively. The bungee probably wouldn't have broken if I hadn't increased the tension by shortening them with knots. The panniers are ultra-light and inexpensive, so one can't expect miracles. The broken bungee took less than ten minutes to fix with a piece of string.
My ten-year-old Fox suspension fork also got trashed by the ride, but it worked great, so I'd recommend it too.
On every climb you'll be glad you saved weight wherever you could!

AvenirFolder

They make a difference with no winds as well -- other than those created by the rider.

djb

very much so, I commute all the time, on diff bikes, and with diff sets of panniers depending on the circumstances, and I very much notice the diff of smaller panniers vs bigger bulkier ones.

roadfix

I thought about a set of these initially for the rear rack on my mtb but wanted the ease of removal and attaching of standard panniers so I went with a pair of front waterproof Nashbar drybag panniers which were similarly sized with the Dry-Lites.
Plus, with 20% off and free shipping they turned out to be a good deal at about $50.