A $95 Tent just taught me to trust US-made camping gear for ultralight bike touring.
#26
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It is not made of siliconize nylon. According to Backcountry.com, it is taffeta. That is a very different fabric from nylon. Nylon is a manmade fiber produced from polyamide that is highly abrasion resistant and very strong. Taffeta is made from regenerated cellulose (think cotton or paper) that is only moderately abrasion resistant and not nearly as strong.
Here's the dictionary.reference.com definition:
1. a medium-weight or light-weight fabric of acetate, nylon, rayon, or silk, usually smooth, crisp, and lustrous, plain-woven, and with a fine crosswise rib effect.
2. any of various other fabrics of silk, linen, wool, etc., in use at different periods.
And this company sells a variety of nylon fabrics, many of which they label as taffeta:
The table for main products standard
#27
Clark W. Griswold
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I got lucky and bought during a holiday sale with a discount card so I got the one link system with atlas straps and double deluxe hammock, then I also got the Ridgeline (but it really isn't much structure unless we are talking two different things?), Underbelly gear sling, a pillow and a tek towel. I plan on getting a Pronest to cut down weight even more because the double was mainly for the hopes of cuddling with someone special and for the usefulness for summer hanging out with friends.
#28
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I've used ENO's and I like. I have a warbonnet Traveler now and use it as my main hang.
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The stoic tent is polyester taffeta with polyester thread. It kind of invalidates all your percentages and data when your basic premise (my tent is made from a cellulose fiber) was made upon a complete misunderstanding of the definition of "taffeta."
I see your point, it's just the logic loop I was trying to disrupt in the interest of discussion.
The tent is fine. If i were berating anyone for using a Big Agnes tent, i'd be berating myself first. I am firmly advocating the US-made cottage gear for ultralighters and subtly offering that even the best double-walls are still overbuilt for ultralighting (so might as well go cheap!)
ultimately... I have no place telling anyone what to do, and I can't say for certain the Stoic tent is sound. I'm just stirring up the conversation.
I see your point, it's just the logic loop I was trying to disrupt in the interest of discussion.
The tent is fine. If i were berating anyone for using a Big Agnes tent, i'd be berating myself first. I am firmly advocating the US-made cottage gear for ultralighters and subtly offering that even the best double-walls are still overbuilt for ultralighting (so might as well go cheap!)
ultimately... I have no place telling anyone what to do, and I can't say for certain the Stoic tent is sound. I'm just stirring up the conversation.
Last edited by mdilthey; 03-13-14 at 12:56 PM.
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#31
I thought taffeta had something to do with wedding dresses.
Nylon Taffeta Wedding Dress:
Nylon Taffeta Wedding Dress:
#32
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I don't get this thread at all.
First, who says it's US made?
Second, what's it being compared to?
Third, what does it cost?
Fourth, what's it weigh?
Only price I see for it is $120, not $95, and it's being remaindered from a normal price of $199.
Competition would be
Big Agnes Fly Creek at 2 lb. 5 oz. and $390 or
Big Agnes Seedhouse at 3 lb. and $350.
Only weight I can find for the Stoic is 5.37 lbs.
You pay your money and take your choice. There's always something cheaper. We've been very happy with our Seedhouse for backpacking and bike touring. Excellent tent. It's kind of a cost-per-perfect-undisturbed-night kind of thing. We think the tent is pretty cheap, especially considering the cost of 5-star hotels in the high mountains. A few years ago, we spent a ton of money and took 15 lbs. out of our gear. For us, that was worth doing. For someone else, probably not.
First, who says it's US made?
Second, what's it being compared to?
Third, what does it cost?
Fourth, what's it weigh?
Only price I see for it is $120, not $95, and it's being remaindered from a normal price of $199.
Competition would be
Big Agnes Fly Creek at 2 lb. 5 oz. and $390 or
Big Agnes Seedhouse at 3 lb. and $350.
Only weight I can find for the Stoic is 5.37 lbs.
You pay your money and take your choice. There's always something cheaper. We've been very happy with our Seedhouse for backpacking and bike touring. Excellent tent. It's kind of a cost-per-perfect-undisturbed-night kind of thing. We think the tent is pretty cheap, especially considering the cost of 5-star hotels in the high mountains. A few years ago, we spent a ton of money and took 15 lbs. out of our gear. For us, that was worth doing. For someone else, probably not.
#33
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Post back after you use it a few times. I'm going to do some bike camping this spring but I'm borrowing a tent for the first few rides. Not sure if I'm a camper yet or a credit card tourer.
#34
just pedal
I don't get this thread at all.
First, who says it's US made?
Second, what's it being compared to?
Third, what does it cost?
Fourth, what's it weigh?
Only price I see for it is $120, not $95, and it's being remaindered from a normal price of $199.
Competition would be
Big Agnes Fly Creek at 2 lb. 5 oz. and $390 or
Big Agnes Seedhouse at 3 lb. and $350.
Only weight I can find for the Stoic is 5.37 lbs.
First, who says it's US made?
Second, what's it being compared to?
Third, what does it cost?
Fourth, what's it weigh?
Only price I see for it is $120, not $95, and it's being remaindered from a normal price of $199.
Competition would be
Big Agnes Fly Creek at 2 lb. 5 oz. and $390 or
Big Agnes Seedhouse at 3 lb. and $350.
Only weight I can find for the Stoic is 5.37 lbs.
but for reference I'll quote the OP's blog
The first thing I did when I opened it was to toss aside all the optional stuff. The tent comes in a stuff sack, with a separate sack for stakes and another for poles. I stripped these off. Then, I set aside the gear loft and footprint, and took just the bare essentials—tent fly, tent body, poles, and stakes— onto my bathroom scale for an estimate. I expected 5 pounds, and got four and change. It ended up weighing 4lbs 6oz for me. This is consistent with the “trail weight” listed by Stoic, so I’ll trust it in lieu of a more accurate scale, but you don’t have to take my word for it.
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Do I want to risk it? The first time I'm stuck in my tent in a driving rain storm I want to know with a high degree of certainty that it ain't gonna leak and leave me sop'n wet. I'm a pretty strong believer in that old business that you get what you pay for. Yeah, yeah, I know it don't always work that way but unless I'm destitute I'd prefer to buy quality.
#37
Vain, But Lacking Talent
So yeah......
I had the reverse situation. I bought a super nice 3 person tent for backpacking (Nemo Losi 3P) with the wife and ended up getting a cheap 1 person tent for bike touring. I bought the Eureka Spitfire 1 and have been beyond pleased with it. It can be had for 100 bucks on any given day online. I think retail is about 130.
When I first got it, I hit a few suspect spots on the fully seam taped fly with some seam sealer. It has since housed me during some intense downpours without a single leak. The (gasp) nylon tafetta floor has been fine. Bathtub construction and taped to prevent any leaks, it has performed flawlessly. With lightweight stakes and a light stuff sack for the body+fly. the whole thing comes to 3 pounds. When I shopped around, spending 3 or 4 times as much would have saved me maybe a pound. Proper care will make any decent tent last a long time.
I think I might do a bivy bag one day depending on the adventure of choice. But for now, a nice double wall tent for warm, humid climates like mine seems to make the most sense.
I had the reverse situation. I bought a super nice 3 person tent for backpacking (Nemo Losi 3P) with the wife and ended up getting a cheap 1 person tent for bike touring. I bought the Eureka Spitfire 1 and have been beyond pleased with it. It can be had for 100 bucks on any given day online. I think retail is about 130.
When I first got it, I hit a few suspect spots on the fully seam taped fly with some seam sealer. It has since housed me during some intense downpours without a single leak. The (gasp) nylon tafetta floor has been fine. Bathtub construction and taped to prevent any leaks, it has performed flawlessly. With lightweight stakes and a light stuff sack for the body+fly. the whole thing comes to 3 pounds. When I shopped around, spending 3 or 4 times as much would have saved me maybe a pound. Proper care will make any decent tent last a long time.
I think I might do a bivy bag one day depending on the adventure of choice. But for now, a nice double wall tent for warm, humid climates like mine seems to make the most sense.
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I don't buy into the big US brandnames anymore.
I've suffered several equipment and product failures since moving to SE Asia.
One case was a midrange 2009 Sierra Designs tent that I paid $250 for after a big discount, that got very good user reviews. I was less than impressed with the design and quality compared to an '88 vintage South African made tent that I'd had previously.
Still, it worked OK for some camping in the yard, and a few motorcycle camping weekenders, but I never had it in any bad conditions.
I added a Nemo Losi 3P just before I moved to Asia, due to the much better airflow and almost twice as much space for around the same weight, and shipped both tents by sea.
When I opened up the Sierra Designs last year, the seam sealer seemed to have melted and then gone crumbly, leaving a sticky mess all over the fabric.
The plastic view window in the fly just fell off.
I had to have it cleaned off and resealed.
Same thing with my Ortlieb panniers, one of the seams failed and if you are in SE Asia, forget about getting a response from Ortlieb, US or Germany, let alone repairs.
Teva sandals: delaminated soles on 2 pairs now, both top end models (FI3 was the last). Looking at both, same story: substandard glue, very minimally applied.
These products may work fine in the conditions most US customers may use them for, but none of them live up to the advertising hype.
At least the Nemo ia still working great. most of the other stuff seems to have suffered from being built to a price and possibly weight constraint, despite the retail price being quite substantial.
I guess with the big brands, you are paying more for advertising and marketing cost, as well as corporate infrastructure.
I've suffered several equipment and product failures since moving to SE Asia.
One case was a midrange 2009 Sierra Designs tent that I paid $250 for after a big discount, that got very good user reviews. I was less than impressed with the design and quality compared to an '88 vintage South African made tent that I'd had previously.
Still, it worked OK for some camping in the yard, and a few motorcycle camping weekenders, but I never had it in any bad conditions.
I added a Nemo Losi 3P just before I moved to Asia, due to the much better airflow and almost twice as much space for around the same weight, and shipped both tents by sea.
When I opened up the Sierra Designs last year, the seam sealer seemed to have melted and then gone crumbly, leaving a sticky mess all over the fabric.
The plastic view window in the fly just fell off.
I had to have it cleaned off and resealed.
Same thing with my Ortlieb panniers, one of the seams failed and if you are in SE Asia, forget about getting a response from Ortlieb, US or Germany, let alone repairs.
Teva sandals: delaminated soles on 2 pairs now, both top end models (FI3 was the last). Looking at both, same story: substandard glue, very minimally applied.
These products may work fine in the conditions most US customers may use them for, but none of them live up to the advertising hype.
At least the Nemo ia still working great. most of the other stuff seems to have suffered from being built to a price and possibly weight constraint, despite the retail price being quite substantial.
I guess with the big brands, you are paying more for advertising and marketing cost, as well as corporate infrastructure.
Last edited by tshelver; 03-14-14 at 12:12 AM.
#39
Clark W. Griswold
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I have a pair of Teva flip-flops that lasted 9 years of hard use and the only reason I stopped wearing them is due to them finally wearing out in the back enough to wear they just weren't comfortable enough. I also have two pairs of Teva shoes that are holding up just dandy (though haven't had them over a year yet but they get worn hard). I am not saying that Teva is perfect or that what you had happen didn't happen because obviously it did or you wouldn't say what you said, however I am saying they have worked well in my case. Though to that point, some brands make some great products that work well and as they get bigger some of their other stuff falls by the wayside.
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6.5 lbs seems like a tank of a tent to me. I like my tarptent : ) I keep the insert in it, so it's a double walled tent for all practical purposes. Fast pitch. 2.5 lbs. luxurious for 1. I liked the eureka, and considered hoop tents, but no complaints about the double rainbow.
Weight on any one item isn't a huge deal though. at the end of the day, the 6.5 lb cheap tent is just as good if it keeps you dry, and if you took that extra money and put it towards a nicer pad, better pillow, and better sleeping bag, you'll probably get a better night sleep and wind up feeling much better about pulling that extra 2.5 lbs. : P idc as long as I'm riding.
Weight on any one item isn't a huge deal though. at the end of the day, the 6.5 lb cheap tent is just as good if it keeps you dry, and if you took that extra money and put it towards a nicer pad, better pillow, and better sleeping bag, you'll probably get a better night sleep and wind up feeling much better about pulling that extra 2.5 lbs. : P idc as long as I'm riding.
#42
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For clarity:
Tent without extras like the stuff sacks and footprint was ~4.5lbs, not ~6.5.
Tent is not "Wal-Mart" or Department store quality. Seams, zippers, materials, etc. are more than standard in quality. If the tent said "REI" on the side instead of "Stoic" we wouldn't have to have this conversation, but that's yet another conversation.
"Taffeta" describes the feel of the material. It is smooth and soft. The fibers used in this Taffeta-feeling fabric is 100% polyester.
The tent was $200, marked down to $119, and Backcountry automatically added an additional 20% off. I didn't even have to type in a coupon. Total price was $95 with free shipping.
The tent is NOT made in the USA. If you read my blog post, I bought a cheap tent and used the remainder ($200) to buy a USA-made shelter (bivy bag) and I advocate only buying "serious," aka ultralight/minimalist shelters in the USA because of the quality and value.
Cheers!
Tent without extras like the stuff sacks and footprint was ~4.5lbs, not ~6.5.
Tent is not "Wal-Mart" or Department store quality. Seams, zippers, materials, etc. are more than standard in quality. If the tent said "REI" on the side instead of "Stoic" we wouldn't have to have this conversation, but that's yet another conversation.
"Taffeta" describes the feel of the material. It is smooth and soft. The fibers used in this Taffeta-feeling fabric is 100% polyester.
The tent was $200, marked down to $119, and Backcountry automatically added an additional 20% off. I didn't even have to type in a coupon. Total price was $95 with free shipping.
The tent is NOT made in the USA. If you read my blog post, I bought a cheap tent and used the remainder ($200) to buy a USA-made shelter (bivy bag) and I advocate only buying "serious," aka ultralight/minimalist shelters in the USA because of the quality and value.
Cheers!
#43
Banned
Rather than a "footprint" I use polyethylene sheet , you can get it Cheap
as a disposable tarp for home decorating to keep paint off your carpet while painting ..
I tape it to the bottom of the tent where the tent stake loops are ..
as a disposable tarp for home decorating to keep paint off your carpet while painting ..
I tape it to the bottom of the tent where the tent stake loops are ..
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I am a true believer in REI been a member for over 15 years now. I have one of their solo tents. I bought it several years ago. For a solo tent its very roomy and packs down super small. Not sure about the weight. All I know is last year on the C&O it started raining in the afternoon and absolutely poured all night long. My REI tent never leaked, setup fast and really surprised the hell out of me at how well it performed. Taking care of gear like tents and sleeping bags helps more than maybe buying that $400 tent. We quit early the next day in order to setup and dry the tents. I learned 1st hand thru years of climbing how important it is to care for gear. With climbing there may not be a second chance. With touring ah not so much but it's sure nice when your gear works for you.
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On the Ortliebs - I have a set that I used to use until I made my own set of hard shell kitty litter pail panniers for a couple of bucks. Since then the Ortliebs have been hanging on the wall at home. My litter pails are durable, waterproof, bigger and more convenient to access than the Ortliebs. They also make great seats in camp!
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On the Ortliebs - I have a set that I used to use until I made my own set of hard shell kitty litter pail panniers for a couple of bucks. Since then the Ortliebs have been hanging on the wall at home. My litter pails are durable, waterproof, bigger and more convenient to access than the Ortliebs. They also make great seats in camp!
Do you have pictures, on and off the bike?
Me, I like some of the stuff-sack/drybag conversions on the ultralight thread. I have nice old canvas Wilderness Equipment front and rear panniers but I won't take them on a serious trip again - too heavy! Arkel have just put out UL panniers which might be good.
W
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I tend to buy the best quality equipment I can justify. I am a bargain buyer and rarely-never pay retail. I am not at all opposed to buying second hand if the stuff is in good enough shape. I have bought from Sierra Trading Post, the local thrifty store, Ebay, and Craigslist. Wear and tear is inevitable so durability is important. A rare equipment failure is hard to avoid. I think high quality stuff is important but spending top dollar is not necessary.
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Just an update:
This tent has seen several trips and about 30 nights, and is still performing like-new. I wouldn't hesitate to buy this again.
This tent has seen several trips and about 30 nights, and is still performing like-new. I wouldn't hesitate to buy this again.
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fify
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FB4K - Every October we wrench on donated bikes. Every December, a few thousand kids get bikes for Christmas. For many, it is their first bike, ever. Every bike, new and used, was donated, built, cleaned and repaired. Check us out on FaceBook: FB4K.
Disclaimer: 99% of what I know about cycling I learned on BF. That would make, ummm, 1% experience. And a lot of posts.
FB4K - Every October we wrench on donated bikes. Every December, a few thousand kids get bikes for Christmas. For many, it is their first bike, ever. Every bike, new and used, was donated, built, cleaned and repaired. Check us out on FaceBook: FB4K.
Disclaimer: 99% of what I know about cycling I learned on BF. That would make, ummm, 1% experience. And a lot of posts.