roadandmountain

Here's trek's official warning about cf. Sudden asplosion is a concern:

https://www.trekbikes.com/pdf/carbon_...Care_Flyer.pdf

Carbon has proven its performance pedigree. However, carbon fiber has unique qualities. Unlike metal parts, carbon fiber parts that have been damaged usually do not bend, bulge or deform; they break. A damaged carbon part may appear normal at a quick glance, but could suddenly fail without warning. Carbon forks, handlebars and stems are most critical.
Trek wants you to be safe. No matter what brand you ride, if you have crashed or impacted your bike (like when you forgot to take it off your roof rack when you drove into the garage), take your bike to your dealer for inspection.

roadandmountain

Reflector vs. Carbon Stay.

Winner? Reflector.

roadandmountain

Asplosion parade:

Carbon bicycle fail compilation #1 - YouTube

rebel1916

Same retrogrouch assclown behind busted carbon. So definitely not another source.
Pinkbike Visits The Santa Cruz Test Lab Video - Pinkbike

sstorkel

Translation: you're lying about this "fact" and you don't want us to be able to prove it. Pretty sad behavior, even by Internet standards...

dwmckee

Excellent you get it. This is not about using a built to the margin racing bike to tour on. This is about using a purpose built touring frame made of carbon fiber, meant for the rigors of touring but still maintaining the ride quality of CF!

We all know that a race competitive CF frame is toast if you are not careful, no argument there. But CF can be spun into bullet proof armor too. I am talking something in between the two extremes. The guys that design with CF are masters at twisting the filaments into what ever the market wants.

paddybogman

I hear a lot of people say that a lugged steal frame is ideal because it can be easily repaired. Have you looked at what a frame builder charges for repairs? How lucky you will be to find a competent frame builder along your route. Otherwise your going to have to carry a torch and some spare tubing. CF on the other hand is an ideal material for a field repair. A small sheet of cf some epoxy and that's it.

Walter S

When your frame breaks the ideal repairman might be a frame builder. But that's hardly going to be your only option when you're stranded with a broken bicycle. Just find anybody with a welder and a little experience using it and mend the break.

rebel1916

Try that with your fancy, heat treated, butted tubes and let me know how it works out for ya. I'll grant it would probably work fine with a Varsity or bike of that ilk.

shipwreck

I wonder if its possible for a varsity or continental to actually break. Say what you will about Schwinns of that ilk, but I have pulled them out of lakes and fields with full frame integrity.
I have an old BF Goodrich frame that was mended on the downtube using lead, as was used on water pipes. It was apparently ridden for a long time after the mend.

As to welding a butted tube, I agree that just anybody with a welder is not going to be able to do it, but its possible. I would prefer to do it myself rather than let bubba try.

revcp 

Some interesting mud wrestling in this thread.

I like CF. I like steel as well. I agree with many posters that, design wise, the great majority of CF bikes were and are made with an eye toward shaving weight. It's that "living on the margin" design, and not the material, that sometimes makes them "fragile". I can't see why a design built for sturdiness would not be possible.

I'm certainly not against CF, but I don't feel a need to have a CF touring bike. My 1985 Miyata 610 feels more plush than my CF Aegis Aro Svelte did (and the Aegis was a great, great ride). And considering the 610 is built to hold up carrying gear for decades I don't mind the weight penalty (and I question what the weight difference would be if a CF bike were built with the same carrying capacity). As others have said, a dedicated tourer is not going to feel like a bike built for racing, regardless of material (and I would assume that, in the OP's case, the wheels/tires on the Jamis and the CoMotion were as different as the frame geometry). For years, every spring I would get on my Aegis after a winter of riding older MTBs and the Aegis would feel twitchy. It wasn't the material that made it feel that way, rather it was the direct comparison to being used to very different geometry and wheels.

So I think it's a geometry issue, not a frame material issue. The only "but" here, and I do think there is one, is that with CF and Aluminum you can't always tell if a frame has been compromised. You know if there is an issue with a steel frame, because it is twisted, bent, cracked or dented. CF and Aluminum might pass the eye test but still fail the stress test. In fact, for that very reason my insurance company wrote off my CF bike after a house fire, but is paying me to clean the steel bikes.

seeker333

Good post.

I always remove the "pie plate" and reflectors because they're ineffective/unnecessary/ugly. Never would have expected to see the picture above - that's amazing.

I'm a little concerned about CF. I retired a fork when it got scraped up a bit - probably only superficial cosmetic damage only, but I changed it because it was worrisome, and a new steel fork cost less than a trip to the dentist.

veganbikes

I am coming in the thread late and avoiding at least some of the drama that I am sure ensued.

If I wanted to tour on a lightweight bicycle I would go with True Temper S3 or Columbus xCR, both steel both super light (sometimes lighter than those crabon fiber bikes). I have test ridden different crabon bikes and they aren't horrible but they don't have the ride quality of steel. Sure they are generally fairly lightweight but the ride quality isn't as nice as the steel bikes I have ridden.

I would get an Rodriguez Outlaw before I would go for a Scott Addict or something like that:
The lightest custom racing bicycles | Lighter than carbon fiber | The Steel Rodriguez Outlaw
Get some extra braze ons for cages and a rear rack, get a Airy Ti rack from Tubus (or something like it) and get some cash monies together or get a trailer to carry stuff.

However I think before our bikes shed pounds, maybe we could shed some first.

djb

R+M, keep the nastiness down please, the touring forum is a nice place to talk about stuff, lets keep it that way.

Siu Blue Wind

Thread has been cleaned up a bit. #roadandmountain , please leave this thread.

gerard2013

I rode my Miyata 1000 for 30 years and enjoyed it, but the Domane 4.5 I tried and bought a year ago was clearly more comfortable, faster, and more fun to ride. I'd have a hard time leaving it home if I wanted to tour, might try one of those single wheel trailers. Maybe that's a reasonable alternative to a carbon touring bike.

DropBarFan

I agree though tourers mostly lean to production steel frames also for economy. Racers & fitness riders might never have to leave a bike unattended while tourers run some risk of theft plus damage in train/plane transport. OTOH while the steel fans say that with all the luggage, what's a couple of extra pounds?

But a properly designed CF frame could save mass amount of weight esp if including built-in racks. Touring curmudgeons said disc brakes were silly, BB7's on my Disc Trucker work great & discs becoming common among Sunday riders too.

nun

Parlee and Calfee are two places to get carbon touring/adventure bikes. However, there are lots of "endurance" bikes that make great light weight
touring bikes. The major problem to overcome is how to carry your gear, but with bikepacking bags or traditional large saddle bags you don't need
racks to carry lightweight modern equipment for loaded touring. You can have everything you need to be very comfortable in under 20lbs of gear.
The other issue is gearing. An endurance bike will come with gears that aren't quite right for touring, but that's easily solved by installing a new
rear derailleur and something like a 12/36 cassette. I now do all my touring on a Cervelo RS and find it more enjoyable than my steel sport
tourer. I recently changed the gearing from 50/34 x 12/25 to 46/34 x 12/36.

dwmckee

nun - Now touring on a Cervelo is really touring in style! You figured out how th have cake and eat it too! Maybe I'll join you some day when I can afford it.

DropBarFan

Parlee & Calfee pretty interesting builders, not just in re touring. Parlee will do custom-build, apparently Calfee too. Prices not cheap but not exorbitant I suppose considering the effort & skill to run such an operation...ie not much more than some custom-titanium. Personally I like to get a custom CF or titanium tourer w/Gates/Rohloff but would would be super-scared about theft when locked up at restaurant or store. I see impressive # of local riders on Cervelo though almost all fitness riders or racers. Well the touring market is so thin it's unlikely the tech will filter down to affordable production tourers in foreseeable future. Somewhat surprisingly the commuter segment has featured more tech improvement, from disc brakes to IGH and belt-drive.

nun

Tech isn't everything, but you can take advantage of it by using one of the many endurance bikes for touring...the Cervelo RS is discontinued, but the Specialized Roubaix, Bianchi Infinito etc would be good. Then there's all the CF cyclocross bikes with disc brakes and big tire clearances, those look interesting for touring.

revcp 

I think this is an apples to cucumbers comparison. The Domane 4.5, while not a Madone, is just a completely different animal from a Miyata 1000. It's different in a way that is about far, far more than frame material. A stiff and light steel bike with isospeed would be just as different from the 1000. The 1000 is a true dedicated touring bike. It's not even a sport tourer like it's sibling Six Ten.

The OP's original question was "...is anyone aware of any carbon fiber true touring bikes?" The Domane is not that.

DropBarFan

Yes but I don't do racing or speedy riding anymore so I like the idea of an all-purpose bike esp that's comfortable for varied road conditions. BTW I realize that not only is CF not being used on production tourers, it's a bit weird that aluminum touring frames are quite limited in availability. I used to have a Cannondale T400 bike. Weight-saving was nice though ride was harsh. Back then I did courier work downtown on awful streets, the T400 had limited clearance for wider tires & I got tired of the punishing ride. But the T400 was more of a randonneur than cushy touring bike anyway. I like my Surly Disc Trucker for the relaxed ride, braze-ons & room for fat tires but if one wants to tote it up stairs w/touring load one better have done some weight-training. Plus I got S & S couplers--it's so heavy that I had to get the lighter backpack travel case, sturdier hard case put it right on airline 50 pound weight limit.

So alu touring frames would save a lot of weight, plus they could use elastomer suspension to smooth out the ride a bit, perhaps. BTW one nice thing about using road bikes for touring--downhill handling feels much surer. LHT has sort of a weird feel over 25 mph.

nun

Most CF endurance bikes are good for road touring.....their limited tire clearances mean that you can't do too much rough stuff on them, but you could do a lot on a CF cyclocross bike. Now that you can carry all your gear without the need for racks or a trailer you can use a far larger range of bikes for touring. I find my Cervelo RS to be very comfortable, it seems to climb, descend and handle better than my other bikes. Also having bike and gear weigh 38lbs makes carrying it up stairs, over fences and packing it for train, bus or airplane travel far easier than with a heavier setup. I have a "cushy tourer" and it seems to be a lot more effort than using the Cervelo RS.

ChooseTheWrench

I am happy with a mixed-material bicycle frame for touring. Mine has a carbon fork and seatpost, but the rest is aluminum. It is a common set-up, but also offers a mount for a rear rack. With some carbon the bike offers some light weight and comfort. But I prefer to have a metal frame (steel or aluminum) when it comes to a rack and panniers.

The other big thing to focus on when touring with a carbon bike is to get high-spoke count wheels. I toured across the country with 25 other people and the folks with bladed spokes and race wheels had to true their wheels five times as often.