DannyClay

I’m the owner of a Specialized Sirrus that I love to bits and that I use for commuting, for Saturday rides, and that I’ve also taken on some light tours. Much as I like it, I’d like to have a sturdier bike (the Sirrus doesn’t feel very stable when loaded) and I was thinking of a Surly model. I already have a Troll that I use for heavier and off-road tours and I need a 28” bike for lighter touring - not that the Troll can’t handle that, but still.
The fact is I’m afraid I’m spoilt for comfort. The Sirrus has a very upright position that is precisely what I want when I’m riding. I’m ok with trading off speed for comfort and the possibility of being in a better position to see what surrounds me.

So my question is: is there any of the Surly bikes that can be built to achieve a similar riding position to that of the Sirrus? I’m not an expert on bike geometry and ergonomics and I don’t know how much work can be done on a bike to reach a certain position by having a longer head tube or a higher stem or what else, so I need some advice from someone who knows the models I’m referring to. I was thinking of the Cross Check and of the LHT, or maybe one of the newest models, like the Straggler, but I really want it to be as comfortable as the Sirrus, otherwise I might consider putting more solid components on the bike I already have.

Thanks to all those who’ll respond.

fietsbob

I own neither ..
get out the tape measure and a protractor & take data. angles and lengths is what You compare.

No Shops Stock those brands?

how about a classic British Audax frame .. Brevets are like tours if you dont want to
hammer out 200 mile days , you dont have to ..

Big saddle bag & a good sized Handlebar bag ..

Light, credit card tours & leave the other stuff home?

Whats wrong with just using the Sirrus ?

8 bend trekking bars are a simple improvement over straight bars

OR Ergon GR5 Grips ?

Cyclebum

As I understand it, the LHT is shipped with an uncut steerer tube(extends upward from the fork shoulder.) The local bike shop can custom cut it to position the bar where you want it. Will probably involve spacers. Even with an off-the-shelf bike, much can be done to raise the bar. A friend even turned the drop bars upside down for a more upright riding position.

fietsbob

usually a sign of a DUI court judgement sentenced rider ..

lurch0038

I ride a 64cm Surly and the handlebars are level with the seat so I imagine that a normal sized person without a cut steerer tube would be higher than the seat. hope it helps.

Cyclebum

No doubt.

I'll see about a picture of this. There's more to it than just turning the bar. Done on a CF road bike by a fast, older, cyclist. Cost nothing and works for him. May be unique.

LeeG

"Sturdiness" and stability when loaded are not the same thing. First thing you should do is measure your Sirrus for pertinent dimensions. Bottom bracket to saddle height measured along the seat tube, assuming the same saddle, seat tip to handlebars and relative height of seat and bars. Once you have done that see if you can duplicate that on another bike.

BUT, before doing that how are you loading the Sirrus? The lack of stability might be a function of how you are loading it and not the bike. A CrossCheck can feel unstable with a large rear load.

seeker333

Of the OP's mentioned preferences, a properly-fit LHT has the best chance for comfortable upright posture since it is the only frame with an extended headtube, for this exact purpose.

OP, if you google Surly LHT and select images tab, then you should see several examples of LHTs with handlebars positioned two or more inches higher than the top of the saddle. It is the extended headtube and >300mm steerer tube that permit this configuration.

seat_boy

All Surly framesets (not complete bikes) come with uncut steerer tube, so you can get the bars as high as you want them.

phughes

I'm not sure if you mean the complete bike doesn't come with an uncut steerer tube, but to clarify, my complete LHT came with an uncut steerer tube. You need to tell the bike shop you buy it from to leave it uncut, they are the ones who cut it.

DannyClay

Thanks for the replies, guys. Interesting info there.

A longer steerer tube will clearly result in a more upright position (yes, my Troll came with uncut steerer tube). My concern though is that while the Sirrus was designed with comfort as the main feature and the overall geometry of the bike reflects this, Surly bikes are not, or not necessarily so, so what I was asking, basically, is if a longer tube than the bike was designed for won’t result in some kind of problem, like an awkward ride, less-than-ideal performances or what else.

I seem to understand this is not an issue (right?) so I guess a LHT with an appropriately long steerer tube is what I’m looking for. Unfortunately Surly dealers in Italy are few and far between so test rides are out of the question.

Just a couple of Ortlieb panniers in the back, plus a handlebar bag. As I said, I use the Troll for heavier loads. It might be just my imagination but much as I like the position, the Sirrus seems a little too flimsy for my liking, and certainly so when compared to the Troll.

winston63 

This isn't what you asked, but is it possible for you to check out a Specialized Awol? It might have more of the geometry you like and it's definitely going to be sturdier under load than the Sirrus.

Anyway, just a thought - good luck in your search!

LeeG

You might try low riders in the front with smaller Ortlieb panniers and a top rack load on the rear. It may well be how the load is distributed and not frame flex.

OldZephyr

Here's a picture of my wife's Surly LHT with the uncut steering tube. Note how high the bars are. It works great, and is the most comfortable bike my wife ever has had.

johnread

I had a Sirrus with the carbon frame and really liked it; but it was more of a "flat bar road bike" than anything else and ultimately was not suitable for even credit card touring. My Surly LHT is configured to place the bars just below seat height and it is very comfortable for just about any distance with any load. The uncut fork allowed me to position the handlebars at just the right height for a compromise between speed and comfort. We ended up cutting the fork about two inches, so uncut it should allow you to experiment until you find just the right position for your preference.

fietsbob

See Recumbent forum ...

seat_boy

Yeah, I think the LHT complete--and maybe ONLY the LHT--comes with an uncut steerer as a complete bike. Cross Checks, etc. seem to come cut.

jbphilly

FWIW, I think it'd be worth trying the Troll as a light/on-road tourer and see how it works. I had a Troll that I used for both on- and off-road touring, all with quite light loads, before it got stolen. It's a bike that can really do everything.

DannyClay

With a couple of minor upgrades (Marathon tires and handlebar ends) this is a bit harsh but yes, it’s not too far from the truth. Which is the point of this thread: if the Sirrus was a proper tourer I wouldn’t be looking for something better but with a similar riding position.
The biggest issue with the LHT is that they only make the 26” version in my frame size (54), while I wanted 28” wheels. This is why I was exploring the Cross Check option.


I didn’t know Specialized had come out with a dedicated touring bike. That looks very interesting, thanks. I’ll check it out. And the name is brilliant.


Now, those are comfortable!


It is indeed. But I feel like I need the right bike with 28” wheels before I’m in my biking nirvana….

seeker333

I owned a LHT with 26" wheels for 3 years and now have owned a Disc Trucker with 700c wheels for another 2 years.

There's simply no significant discernible difference between them with regard to ride comfort or average speed. Despite my strong suspicions before the DT purchase, I had to actually buy/ride/own the 700c version before I learned this lesson. Theorizing about road surface irregularity, wheel outer diameter, rolling resistance and tire applications will perhaps lead you to a the conclusion that 700c should be superior. However, after about 100 miles you'll realize it doesn't seem to matter.

The 700c wheel is in fact a disadvantage in terms of toe overlap clearance on 56 and 58cm models. Touring-suitable tire selection is not any better on 700c than the 26 - I think good tire choices are fairly limited in BOTH sizes. The 26 wheel version perhaps actually steers and handles better than the 700, but this could just be some bias due to the fact that on take off I always have to concentrate on pedaling in a straight line until I build some speed, otherwise my shoe toe will certainly collide with the back of my front fender where the toe overlap issue is exacerbated by a protruding Velo Orange fender stay mount.

If I could do it again I'd get the DT in 26" version. My garage would now be slightly less cluttered without TWO sizes of spare rims, tires and tubes.

I've never quite understood why so many people seem to think a CX frame (Cross Check) would make a good tourer. CX bikes are basically a road bike with brakes that allow for some mud clearance and slightly larger tires. In contrast, a touring bike has larger diameter, thicker walled tubing, so that the frame has greater rigidity to resist deflection from typical touring loads, as well as reduce the chance of shimmy. A proper touring frame also has geometry tweaks to make long days on the saddle somewhat more tolerable. Tourists typically have a more upright posture, and tend to not spin so much as mash, so a touring frame will have slacker seat tube and head tube angle, and a longer head tube so you don't end up with a ridiculous amount of headset spacers. Also a very long chainstay length is necessary to avoid heel striking rear bags. The LHT has all these features at a low price point - the CX frame ... doesn't.

phughes

I bought the 56 with 26 inch rims. I cannot imagine a 54 with rims larger than 26 inch. The toe overlap would be bad. I also like the option to run larger tires.

MassiveD

Generally speaking the dropped bars are the comfort riding position. They have the correct hand positions, and you can put them as high or low as you like. Upright might be ok for a few miles, but you are carrying all your weight on you ass, and riding out all the road conditions there. Properly designed bikes for that posture have a seatube position that doesn't favour taking the ride with your legs, which makes maters worse. Some kind of reasonable suspension is probably needed. Which unless you have really serious disabilities relative to cycling is normally a sign of not having got the memo on how to do it right.

If your touring will be light, low mileage, and you get a good upright posture, and never cycle in the wind, you shouldn't have a problem. But if you do serious stuff, you both need something better, and you probably will adapt to whatever sensible choice you make.

Not to say you can't have an upright handlebar, and not drops. It's generally less comfortable, and has fewer options, but there are correct choices that can be made. MTB bike bars, not being one of them, which only goes to show, generally healthy people who work into stuff can handle a lot of bad choices. But given our adaptability, why not adapt to a correct choice.

vespoli

You have two perfect bikes. I'd spend some money getting the Troll spiffed out before buying a whole 'nother bike. For reference, I'm about 2,800 miles deep on a XC tour on a Cross-Check. It's working great.

judes21

OldZephyr. can you tell me the size of the frame in this photo?
Jude

alan s 

Don't know what size Troll you have, but I run 700x35 with fenders on a 20" frame, and it works great. No reason you can't make the Troll fit your needs.