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  1. #1
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    Gunnar Grand Tour Question

    I wasn't really looking for a Gunnar but I have been looking for an American built touring bike, specifically a used Trek 520. These, however, seem hard to find. Especially in the 54 to 56 CM range.

    Anyhow, I stumbled across a new Gunnar Sport frame at a LBS, which was built up using parts from a NOS 2011 Jamis Aurora. The specs are listed here: 2011 Jamis Aurora - BikePedia

    The asking price is $1,750.00. It is in my size, although I have not test ridden it yet. Is this a good enough deal that I should scrounge all my change together and sell some things on Craigslist or should I be patient for a nice, used 520?

    I appreciate your feedback!

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    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Gunnar is a parallel Waterford line.. equip it as you wish ..


    if you cannot make up your own mind, I cannot help..

  3. #3
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    It's a fine price, whether you like it is another thing. It looks like a "sport" touring frame and not a heavy hauler. What is your intended load
    Last edited by LeeG; 08-11-14 at 07:55 PM.

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    Perhaps my question was not specific enough. Is that a poor/fair/good/great price given the components it is currently built with? Based on looking at the Gunnar website it seems decent. I have no doubt that I would like the bike, but I am curious as to whether the price is fair or not. Since there is not a Touring Specific Valuation sub-forum I thought this would be the place to ask such a question.

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    Lee, thanks for the feedback. The sales guy said it had been sitting a while. I wonder if there isn't much brand recognition here or maybe bikes thatnhigh don't sell well in Ohio.

  6. #6
    Zen Master Miles2go's Avatar
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    I don't agree that the Gunnar Grand Tour is a sport touring bike, which in the classical sense would mean that it's a slightly modified road racing bicycle.
    This frameset has:
    45cm or longer chain stays on any size beyond 52cm.
    Room for 38c tires with fenders.
    Canti brakes.
    135mm rear spacing.

    The Gunnar's page for the frame states that it's made of their strongest tube set and many photos show customer's bikes fully loaded. It looks like every bit of a tourer that the Trek 520 would be, at first glance.

    That said, there's much that we could speculate on here from what little we know thus far. What year is the Gunnar frameset? Was it built up before? Has it never been ridden? How many miles are really on the components it was built up with?

    You've already stated a strong identification with a value within yourself to buy something made in America and if you do some digging around you just may find that buying a frameset handmade within the family of Waterford, means a little more to you in that regard. …but that's just speculation.

    To really answer your question I'd have to see the bike but I had a Waterford Adventure Cycle and it could not only haul what I needed, but it was also super solid and quick. A purebred among similar offerings. A Trek 520 (also owned one of them too) had nothing on the Adventure Cycle, except that it could be had for less money.

    If it doesn't fit you and isn't comfortable in your eyes however, it isn't worth much to you, is it? On that note, one thing I'd be sure of is to not take the shop's word for it on what the sizing/geometry is. Measure it and compare your measurements against Gunnar's data online. This bike could have been a custom sizing order that the buyer didn't come through on, but again, up to you to do a little more groundwork.

    Good luck.
    Ron - Washington
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    Where are you located? I have a 520 in the SF Bay area that I'm thinking of getting rid of. PM me for info. It's about a 56 I think.

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    Miles, thank you for the superb advice. I believe the frame is a 2014 and it was an order that fell through. Yes, having an American manufactured bike means something to me.

    Here is the way I look at it. A new Cross Check or LHT would be about $1300 to $1400. Everything else being equal (fit, etc.) I would much prefer to pay a little more and buy the Gunnar. Again, assuming a good fit.

    I am still fairly new to cycling however and only have a basic hybrid. It is this newness to the sport that makes me think I shouldn't go too far of the deep end just yet. Perhaps I would be better served for the time being by a used 520.

    As you mentioned, I have some research to do! Thank you again!

    Pm sent kpfeif.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekCommuter View Post
    I wasn't really looking for a Gunnar but I have been looking for an American built touring bike, specifically a used Trek 520. These, however, seem hard to find. Especially in the 54 to 56 CM range.

    Anyhow, I stumbled across a new Gunnar Sport frame at a LBS, which was built up using parts from a NOS 2011 Jamis Aurora.
    The frame set (frame and fork) is $1400 list, according to Gunnar's website. The Jamis Aurora stuff is (likely) solid stuff (if not fancy). $1750 seems like a very good price for a complete Gunnar bike.

    The Grand Tour seems more robust than "sport touring". It fits 38mm tires with fenders. There is no indication that it would be any less capable for touring than the 520.

    Gunnar is a high-end brand (the brand is well-known by anybody who knows anything).

    You could be riding this for many, many months before you run across any US-made 520 (let alone one that fits you). (The 520 frame set hasn't been US-made for a few years.)

    Gunnar Cycles USA, Grand Tour for Loaded Touring by Bicycle

    Don't buy a bike that doesn't fit you.
    Last edited by njkayaker; 08-11-14 at 09:45 PM.

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    You know, in my PM I said that I thought 1750 was too much, but you're right that you won't find an American made touring bike for less. I take it back. If it's been sitting around for a while I bet you could offer them 1500 and walk out with it. You might ask them to swap the road triple out for a mountain triple if you're planning on loading it up.

    [edit for clarification]: Which Gunnar frame is this? The title says Grand Tour and the body of your message says Gunnar Sport. The Sport has caliper brakes with stated clearance for 28's. It looks like brazeons and such don't come standard, so check that there are rack mounts where you need them. If you plan on staying on pavement, I think it would be a really fun bike loaded or unloaded. If you want a heavy duty tourer that you could put cross tires on, it's probably not quite the right bike.
    Last edited by kpfeif; 08-11-14 at 09:55 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpfeif View Post
    Miles2go et al: I think you were looking at the wrong bike. He's got a Gunnar Sport, not Grand Tour. The Sport has caliper brakes with stated clearance for 28's. It looks like brazeons and such don't come standard, so check that there are rack mounts where you need them. If you plan on staying on pavement, I think it would be a really fun bike loaded or unloaded. If you want a heavy duty tourer that you could put cross tires on, it's probably not quite the right bike.

    I think it looks like a really fun bike, and that most touring bikes are overbuilt and slow anyway
    The OP said it was a Grand Tour.

    Gunnar says 28 mm tires and 32 mm tires with fenders for the Sport (assume 28 to be safe).

    The frame set price is $1120 with an Al fork and $1400 with a carbon fork plus $100-200 for rack/fender eyelets.

    Gunnar Sport ? Long distance riding in comfort from Gunnar Cycles USA

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    Senior Member boomhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekCommuter View Post
    I wasn't really looking for a Gunnar but I have been looking for an American built touring bike, specifically a used Trek 520. These, however, seem hard to find. Especially in the 54 to 56 CM range.

    Anyhow, I stumbled across a new Gunnar Sport frame at a LBS, which was built up using parts from a NOS 2011 Jamis Aurora. The specs are listed here: 2011 Jamis Aurora - BikePedia

    The asking price is $1,750.00. It is in my size, although I have not test ridden it yet. Is this a good enough deal that I should scrounge all my change together and sell some things on Craigslist or should I be patient for a nice, used 520?

    I appreciate your feedback!
    The frame is almost the least important thing.
    I'm sure it's fine.

    What about the wheels? Are they hand built?
    It's worth a lot. You don't want to be messing around with spokes.

    The fit will be determined by you on your first tour with the bike.
    Undoubtedly, you will change something. It might be the handlebar style or the seat.
    Comfort is everything.

  13. #13
    Zen Master Miles2go's Avatar
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    What frameset is it TrekCommuter? If it's not a Grand Tour, as stated in the subject of the thread, and rather a Gunnar Sport, this shifts to more of an apples and oranges comparison. The Sport does come with a set of eyelets at the rear dropout, but is less of all-around tourer than the Trek 520.

    OP: I think you are taking a pretty sensible approach to this which is quite important if you're talking about needing to sell things to afford this. You know your position better than anyone else does.

    The frameset *is* important if you are wanting to run panniers on the back with 42cm chain stays(heal-strike) and a rack on the front with no eyelets. And/or you were looking for handling more like a Trek 520 but we're talking about handling more like a Trek CrossRip.

    I've had good luck with a pair of Alex wheels I've hammered on my cyclocross bike, but that doesn't mean the Ace-19s are any good. We'd have to know what your touring aspirations were before we could weigh totally in on the components with any validity. The borrowed gearing would be fine for some tours, perhaps not fine for others.

    If the frameset is like new, it's the Grand Tour, and it fits you nicely…I'd say it's worth the asking price, but I agree on offering about $1,500 for it and seeing what they say.

    Edit to add: Gunnar will tell you more about it from the serial number.
    Last edited by Miles2go; 08-11-14 at 11:37 PM.
    Ron - Washington
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekCommuter View Post
    Miles, thank you for the superb advice. I believe the frame is a 2014 and it was an order that fell through. Yes, having an American manufactured bike means something to me.

    Here is the way I look at it. A new Cross Check or LHT would be about $1300 to $1400. Everything else being equal (fit, etc.) I would much prefer to pay a little more and buy the Gunnar. Again, assuming a good fit.

    I am still fairly new to cycling however and only have a basic hybrid. It is this newness to the sport that makes me think I shouldn't go too far of the deep end just yet. Perhaps I would be better served for the time being by a used 520.

    As you mentioned, I have some research to do! Thank you again!

    Pm sent kpfeif.

    You're not differentiating between Sport, Grand Touring, Cross-Check, LHT except by cost.
    From the information given it's a good value, whether it's the bike that fits your needs is unclear.
    A used bike may not be a value if you don't know what you're looking for, requires new wheels,tires, stem changes, etc.

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    At the price point, bike shop can make changes OP wants. As long as the frame fits.

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    Sorry, I made a mistake. It is a Grand Tour, as stated in the title. It is not a Sport as mentioned in my first post. I appreciate all of the feedback. Yes, I would need to verify it fits. Good deal or not, if it didn't fit, I'd walk.

  17. #17
    Senior Member tarwheel's Avatar
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    Personally I feel that $1750 is a very reasonable price for a Gunnar Grand Tour with the equipment specified. A new Gunnar frame alone would cost you close to $1500. The big issue is whether the bike will fit you properly, and a bike at any price is not a bargain if it doesn't fit.

    I've owned two Gunnars and a Waterford. They are very well made bikes. The Grand Tour is designed for loaded touring and should be able to handle anything you could throw at it. I've currently got a Gunnar Crosshairs (older model) and it replaced a Gunnar Sport (newer model). The Sport was one of the stiffest frames I have ever owned and could certainly handle light touring with ease, with its only drawback being the long-reach brakes.

    Long story short, if the Gunnar GT fits you, buy it. You won't regret it.

  18. #18
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    Ok for starters the Jamis has alot of lowerend components on it. Secondly if this was indeed a purchased frame that "fell thru" then the dealer most likley dosnt have $1500 in it. I am sure he has much less. The used components are always a question mark for me since I dont know where they really came from. I am not saying that the LBS isn't reputable but. If its been around a while and I believe you said it has I would talk price with the guy. In reality if he wants to rid himself of it I'd see if he would take $1400 for it. Maybe even less. How are the wheels? I would also get a full years warranty on everything. I am always skeptical of used parts. If it were me I'd offer like $1200 cash and not go above $1400. Thats assuming it fits well and everything works correctly.

  19. #19
    Senior Member tarwheel's Avatar
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    The OP said the parts were NOS -- new old stock.

  20. #20
    Zen Master Miles2go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by egear View Post
    Ok for starters the Jamis has alot of lowerend components on it. Secondly if this was indeed a purchased frame that "fell thru" then the dealer most likley dosnt have $1500 in it. I am sure he has much less. The used components are always a question mark for me since I dont know where they really came from. I am not saying that the LBS isn't reputable but. If its been around a while and I believe you said it has I would talk price with the guy. In reality if he wants to rid himself of it I'd see if he would take $1400 for it. Maybe even less. How are the wheels? I would also get a full years warranty on everything. I am always skeptical of used parts. If it were me I'd offer like $1200 cash and not go above $1400. Thats assuming it fits well and everything works correctly.
    Everything on the spec sheet looked OK to me for a touring bike except for the gearing is high for loaded touring in the mountains. The lowest rated component on the bike from what I've seen are the canti brakes and when I saw that I laughed. Those are the same ones that came on my Rocky Mountain Sherpa and I've had no reason to think about replacing them. I didn't see anyone on the forums saying the wheels sucked either.

    Upon getting up to speed on Waterford's recent history, the Grand Tour is the latest version of the Waterford model that I had, the Waterford Adventure Cycle. This could be a sweet find for a touring bike but I'd want to talk to Waterford/Gunnar with the serial number in hand before I'd make any offer. (just to rule out any repair history, etc.) …and if the parts and frameset is like new, I'd say $1,500 is fair, but I'd also push to get a smaller inner chainring or at least a taller cassette range in the back.
    Ron - Washington
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  21. #21
    Senior Member robert schlatte's Avatar
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    When I was looking to purchase a touring bike, i found a Gunnar grand tour at a local bike shop. If the frame only would have been for sale, I would have strongly considered it even though it was a little big for me. A friend of mine built a Grand tour and it is an exceptional bike but he was free to pick his own components. Depending on the year of the frame and if you are okay with the level of components, $1750 is a decent price. If its been sitting around for a while, I might offer less.

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    Thank you all for the information. One thing I had not even considered was to check with Gunnar regarding the serial number. I sent an e-mail to the store and asked if cash would make them lower the price. The only movement they said they could do would be about $25.00.

    I know it seems silly that I am asking this question and have not even ridden it. Perhaps I should explain. This store is not terribly close to me and I was pressed for time when I stopped in previously and thus did not ride it. The stand over height seemed appropriate, though.

    At this point, based on responses, I may go back and at least ride it. If I do like it and it fits, then I will contact Gunnar regarding the serial number to find out more and see how much cash really talks with the shop.

    Now, let me ask one more question. This is something a co-worker mentioned to me today. I am about 5'9'' to 5'10'' and weigh 140 to 150. My coworker mentioned that a dedicated touring bike may have a harsh ride for someone like me and that I might be better served by a lighter weight sport touring bike. Have any lighter weight riders experienced this with a heavier touring bike?

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    Trekcommuter, $.02, from a retailers perspective when you start off trying to negotiate price when you aren't sure about your choice you're simply wasting their and your time. No one gets rich in this business. If the bike fits then you got a good touring bike. Don't nickel and dime before you're sure and especially if you want changes done on the bike. It really doesn't make one want to help a customer when their priority is how much they can get out of a mechanic who isn't paid all that much.

  24. #24
    Zen Master Miles2go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekCommuter View Post
    Thank you all for the information. One thing I had not even considered was to check with Gunnar regarding the serial number. I sent an e-mail to the store and asked if cash would make them lower the price. The only movement they said they could do would be about $25.00.

    I know it seems silly that I am asking this question and have not even ridden it. Perhaps I should explain. This store is not terribly close to me and I was pressed for time when I stopped in previously and thus did not ride it. The stand over height seemed appropriate, though.

    At this point, based on responses, I may go back and at least ride it. If I do like it and it fits, then I will contact Gunnar regarding the serial number to find out more and see how much cash really talks with the shop.

    Now, let me ask one more question. This is something a co-worker mentioned to me today. I am about 5'9'' to 5'10'' and weigh 140 to 150. My coworker mentioned that a dedicated touring bike may have a harsh ride for someone like me and that I might be better served by a lighter weight sport touring bike. Have any lighter weight riders experienced this with a heavier touring bike?

    It sounds like they *may* have been holding onto this bike for a while. I wouldn't insult them LeeG. The components aren't trash, but I'd point out to the shop that the they aren't up to the quality of the frame. You can buy a lot of other bikes for $1,700. The deal has to be right for the buyer and the seller.

    I'd call the shop, ask for the serial number, and wouldn't move forward any further without seeing what Waterford can tell you.

    Perhaps they don't have much info on it but things they may be able to tell you include:
    Is it listed as stolen with them.
    Was it returned for repair.
    Was it a custom build and if so, what are the details, angles, sizing, etc.
    Is the shop the point of origin for that frameset and if not, what shop was.

    Given what you've mentioned about this frame, I'd at least see if the there's any repair history before driving whatever distance to ride it.

    I'm 165 lbs 5'11" and a strong rider. I enjoyed riding my Adventure Cycle in club rides. Thought it was a fun bike to ride, loaded or not. I'm not certain as to how much Waterford's 1900 Adventure Cycle lines up with the Gunnar Grand Tour though. Waterford would be able to answer that as well.

    You started this thread out mentioning that you'd been looking for a Trek 520. Sounds like you might be leaning more toward sport touring. Hard call and one that you'll have to make. The Grand Tour is something of an all-rounder, road and fire road. Road sport bikes are a fair step away from that, and right in the middle of the two is the cycle cross bike, not to make this harder on you. What drew you to the Trek 520?
    Ron - Washington
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    First off, I do not want to waste anyone's time, including the time of those who work at the shop in question. I don't want the shop employees to lose their proverbial shirts over the deal, but I don't want to be "had" either, hence this thread.

    Secondly, I have read good things about the Trek 520. If one can be found used, they seem to be at reasonable prices. The problem around here is finding one in my size to even test ride. Even new ones are hard to find here so I have not had the experience of riding one.

    I have some thinking and potentially some test riding to do. I greatly appreciate all of the insight.

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