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  1. #1
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    light touring innovation

    i did a month tour with a large dry bag lashed to my seat with pedal straps. constantly had to adjust to keep the bag off my legs. also squeezed the contents of my dry bag with pedal straps to keep the bag in a fixed position.

    i thought about getting a seat post rack. my frame is small, and the seat post rack would not give me much space below the seat. plus, i think seat post racks are slow, or slow looking.

    after thinking about this problem for a week or two, i decided to keep trying. i have some generic cargo nets that are made out of bungee cord material. they will squish my bag like the pedal straps

    so i have some cheap poly rope or small gauge cord that i'm making rope net out of. it will give me the flexibility to move my bag without squishing it.

  2. #2
    Senior Member staehpj1's Avatar
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    Pictures please.

  3. #3
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    a large Carradice saddle bag may give you a place to put your things in un crushed..

  4. #4
    nun
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone View Post
    i did a month tour with a large dry bag lashed to my seat with pedal straps.
    You're reinventing bike packing. Dry sacs are good for carrying stuff, but they have the drawback that it's difficult to get at things towards the bottom.

    Last edited by nun; 08-16-14 at 03:49 PM.

  5. #5
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    IE catching up, not innovating..

  6. #6
    Formerly Known as Newbie Juha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    a large Carradice saddle bag may give you a place to put your things in un crushed..
    This. If you do go this route, a QR bag holder makes life easier (although the QR adds some weight to the setup).
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  7. #7
    nun
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juha View Post
    This. If you do go this route, a QR bag holder makes life easier (although the QR adds some weight to the setup).
    I've never seen the need of a quick release, or a Bagman if there is sufficient saddle to rear wheel clearance. I leave the saddlebag on the bike and only take it off if I'm traveling on a bus, plane etc. It only takes a minute to undo the leather straps that hold the saddlebag to the saddle.

  8. #8
    Senior Member saddlesores's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone View Post
    i did a month tour with a large dry bag lashed to my seat with pedal straps.
    dry bags lashed to the seat are slow, or at least slow-looking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lone View Post
    i have some generic cargo nets that are made out of bungee cord material.
    generic cargo nets also are slow, or at least slow-looking

    Quote Originally Posted by Lone View Post
    so i have some cheap poly rope or small gauge cord that i'm making rope net out of.
    hand-braided cheap poly rope nets however are fast, or at least fast-looking.

  9. #9
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    nun, thanks for the picture. i made my rope net yesterday. i took the rest of the day off to think about how to put it on my bike. the way it is pictured is the way i was thinking, since i won't hang it lengethwise because it will rub against my brakes and legs.

  10. #10
    nun
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    Here is a setup using dry sacs I tested a while ago



    but I found that I prefer to use a Carradice saddlebag and an Ortlieb bar bag for convenience.

  11. #11
    Senior Member irwin7638's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nun View Post
    Here is a setup using dry sacs I tested a while ago



    but I found that I prefer to use a Carradice saddlebag and an Ortlieb bar bag for convenience.
    It might just be my retro-grouchery acting up, but this "drybag" idea just looks like a very inconvenient redesign for a saddlebag. A Carradice, Frost River or Rivendell would work better. You might need a support or rack, but that's what we're talking about anyway.

    Marc
    Last edited by irwin7638; 08-18-14 at 07:06 AM.
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  12. #12
    Senior Member staehpj1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nun View Post
    but I found that I prefer to use a Carradice saddlebag and an Ortlieb bar bag for convenience.
    The convenience of the dry bag setup will vary with how you pack and your habits as far as how often you access stuff during the day. I find that I usually never need anything from the dry bags (or whatever bags I use) during the day. I leave the things I might need during the day out of the dry bags. That stuff is either in jersey pockets, strapped on the outside of the dry bags, or in a small backpack or fanny pack.

    An in between approach would be a dry bag on the back and a handlebar bag on the front. That way the stuff you are likely to access is kept in the handlebar bag.

    I have also used dry bags front and back with a tiny camera bag hanging on the front bag. All the small items I need during the day went in the little camera bag. Rain jacket went in a jersey pocket pr under a drybag strap on those days when I expected I might need it

    So for me the inconvenience you mention typically is not an issue. I can see where it would be for some folks though.

  13. #13
    nun
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    Quote Originally Posted by irwin7638 View Post
    It might just be my retro-grouchery acting up, but this "drybag" idea just looks like a very inconvenient redesign for a saddlebag. A Carradice, Frost River or Rivendell would work better. You might need a support or rack, but that's what we're talking about anyway.

    Marc
    I agree, although the Frost River bags (that they stole from Rivendell) and the awful new Rivendell bags are not as practical as a Carradice Camper long flap, IMHO. Drysacs will win out over saddlebags when weight is the main consideration, and they don't have to be that inconvenient if you pack sensibly, but they always come with some compromises.

    I like the Ortlieb bar bag because it is so easy to get on and off the bars with the Kickfix mount. The lid can be a bit of a pain, but the overall simplicity, sturdiness and lightweight of the Ortlieb are nice.

    The Carradice Camper longflap is a great bag....plenty of capacity, reflective patches, expandable with the longflap, the side pockets are great for stuff you need to access easily and you often don't even need a support.

    PS I'm also biased towards Carradice because I used them as a teenager in the UK.

    Last edited by nun; 08-18-14 at 08:58 AM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member staehpj1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irwin7638 View Post
    It might just be my retro-grouchery acting up, but this "drybag" idea just looks like a very inconvenient redesign for a saddlebag. A Carradice, Frost River or Rivendell would work better. You might need a support or rack, but that's what we're talking about anyway.
    I guess it depends on your priorities. To me the reason for going to these alternate bag systems is to save weight. My 20 liter Sea 2 Summit bag weighs 3 ounces while a Carradice bag that size is about 2 pounds.

    Especially when you start adding racks or bag supports it no longer saves much or maybe even any weight. My 30 liter pair of small waterproof panniers weigh 2 lb 2 oz, pretty much the same as a Carradice that is 12 liters smaller, and I could lose almost a pound by removing the stiffeners in the panniers.

    So for me, if I want to go moderately light the 30 liter pair of panniers wins out over a Carradice.

    If I want to go really light a 3 ounce dry bag wins out over either. A strap adds an ounce of so and the little rack I sometimes use with it adds 12 ounces, but even with the rack and the strap it is still a full pound lighter than a similar sized Carradice with no support.

    It seems to me as if the Carradice kind of hit an odd spot in the compromise. If you are really sensitive about the weight a dry bag beats it handily. If you are less concerned about weight a pair of light weight small pannier beat it handily.

    If you factor in cost my panniers and my dry bags were both a lot less expensive. The Carradice may last a lot longer though, but heavy, over built things typically do. If you like the aesthetics of the canvas and leather bag, that is another matter, but it does come at a cost, both in price and in weight.

  15. #15
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Columbus 'Discovered' the Americas, but it was there all Along..

    ...the Frost River bags (that they stole from Rivendell)...
    was there a Burglary?

  16. #16
    nun
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    Quote Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
    I guess it depends on your priorities. To me the reason for going to these alternate bag systems is to save weight. My 20 liter Sea 2 Summit bag weighs 3 ounces while a Carradice bag that size is about 2 pounds.
    The Carradice material is certainly heavier than it needs to be; I'd like to see it made in lightweight modern materials. In fact Carradice did once make a lighter nylon saddlebag that weighted about a pound, but you can't get them now. There is the Super C saddlebag, but that's just a bit lighter and made from pretty heavy Cordura.

    I used some Karrimor panniers back in my 20s, but when I got back into touring I didn't bother with them because I realized that I could carry most of my stuff in a saddlebag. Then I had a goal to get rid of racks so that I could tour on any bike and I save myself 5 lbs by using a Cervelo RS over my steel sport tourer. I found that with a Brooks saddle and a bit of space on the handlebar I could carry a saddlebag and an Ortlieb on any bike as there's no need for any eyelets. Also the mounting is simple and secure and it's nice to have just two pieces of well made luggage when off the bike. I also have to say that I like the contrast of a CF bike with a cotton duck saddlebag.

  17. #17
    nun
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Columbus 'Discovered' the Americas, but it was there all Along..


    was there a Burglary?
    I believe that Frost River (then Duluth Trading) made bags for Rivendell a while back and when Rivendell ended the contract Frost River brought out their own line of bags that are identical to those old Rivendell bags. There's a dispute about who owns the design. This annoyed Rivendell, but it sounds like a case of not paying lawyers to protect your designs to me. But that's just a guess on my part.
    Last edited by nun; 08-18-14 at 12:27 PM.

  18. #18
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    I use these purpose built soft bags from Porcelain Rocket on my touring MTBs, but I have seen folks use the same bags on road touring bikes with success.

    I'll probably get a half frame bag built from them for my Straggler for a UL setup on any road tours I do while still retaining one water bottle cage in the frame.
    safe riding - Vik
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by nun View Post
    The Carradice material is certainly heavier than it needs to be; I'd like to see it made in lightweight modern materials. In fact Carradice did once make a lighter nylon saddlebag that weighted about a pound, but you can't get them now. There is the Super C saddlebag, but that's just a bit lighter and made from pretty heavy Cordura.
    This past spring I purchase a "Carradice" like saddle bag from Dill Pickle in Massachusetts. You can customize the color and features and I'm been very pleased with the bag. I had planned on a Carradice ( I have their small, zippered saddlebag), but found the Dill Pickle bags and liked the customization and that it was a small/single person start-up.

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  20. #20
    Senior Member mdilthey's Avatar
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    Frame bags work for road bikes, too. Here's my current setup, though, in a week I replace the Ortliebs with a handlebar drybag and a top tube bag.

    Ultralight Gear Lists and Reviews... MAXTHECYCLIST.COM

  21. #21
    littlecircles bmike's Avatar
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    you've seen these before...

    fargo in revelate kit by mbeganyi, on Flickr

    IMG_9474a by mbeganyi, on Flickr

  22. #22
    nun
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    Quote Originally Posted by VT_Speed_TR View Post
    This past spring I purchase a "Carradice" like saddle bag from Dill Pickle in Massachusetts. You can customize the color and features and I'm been very pleased with the bag. I had planned on a Carradice ( I have their small, zippered saddlebag), but found the Dill Pickle bags and liked the customization and that it was a small/single person start-up.

    Dill Pickle Gear
    I've seen the Dill Pickle bags, but their large saddlebag is only half the capacity of the Camper longflap and they are quite expensive so I hate to think about the cost of a 24L version. They are made from Cordura like the Carradice Super C saddlebag. I do like the mesh lid pocket though, it's far more sensible than the D rings and straps arrangement on other saddlebags

  23. #23
    nun
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    What I like most about this discussion is that it shows that there are so many baggage options for the tourist. New and established companies are making lots of different bags and panniers from a range of materials. I was particularly happy when Arkel introduced their new lDry-lite panniers as their old ones were notoriously over built and heavy...they made the Carradice Camper longflap look "ultralight". The bikepacking companies are also offering some interesting solutions that can be adapted for the conventional touring cyclist....although I haven't pursued the bikepacking approach because most setups seem to use more than 2 bags and some need a backpack too. I like the simplicity of having just 2 bags as it makes plane, train and bus travel very easy. I can carry both bags on as hand baggage.

  24. #24
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    I too have been using eVent bags and like them for 2 reasons. My son is an avid hiker and uses them for hiking, no need to purchase 2 systems, and they are extremely lightweight. Unfortunately I pierced one of the bags on the last trip but found that a rubber raft patch worked nicely to fix the hole. So yes one must be careful with the eVent bags as they are susceptible to puncture.

    Quote Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
    I guess it depends on your priorities. To me the reason for going to these alternate bag systems is to save weight. My 20 liter Sea 2 Summit bag weighs 3 ounces while a Carradice bag that size is about 2 pounds.

    Especially when you start adding racks or bag supports it no longer saves much or maybe even any weight. My 30 liter pair of small waterproof panniers weigh 2 lb 2 oz, pretty much the same as a Carradice that is 12 liters smaller, and I could lose almost a pound by removing the stiffeners in the panniers.

    So for me, if I want to go moderately light the 30 liter pair of panniers wins out over a Carradice.

    If I want to go really light a 3 ounce dry bag wins out over either. A strap adds an ounce of so and the little rack I sometimes use with it adds 12 ounces, but even with the rack and the strap it is still a full pound lighter than a similar sized Carradice with no support.

    It seems to me as if the Carradice kind of hit an odd spot in the compromise. If you are really sensitive about the weight a dry bag beats it handily. If you are less concerned about weight a pair of light weight small pannier beat it handily.

    If you factor in cost my panniers and my dry bags were both a lot less expensive. The Carradice may last a lot longer though, but heavy, over built things typically do. If you like the aesthetics of the canvas and leather bag, that is another matter, but it does come at a cost, both in price and in weight.

  25. #25
    Senior Member staehpj1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edthesped View Post
    So yes one must be careful with the eVent bags as they are susceptible to puncture.
    They require some care in handling and if that care is taken punctures or tears will be pretty infrequent, but yes I have managed to put a hole in them. Some high quality duct tape works fine as a repair and is something most tourists will be carrying a bit of.

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