Nick94804

Lots of great input here, and I've been reading while fiddling with it, literally checking the bike against all of your suggestions. There was a bit of rear brake drag...thats fixed. I also understand all too well the drag/velocity coefficient. I've got 32mm gatorskins on Velocity deep Vs. I ran gatorskin 25s on the Merlin on the way down from Astoria. Maybe I'll swap the tires out. I'll put 50 on it tomorrow and see if my attitude improves. Thanks all for the input. Its very much appreciated.

staehpj1

I have toured on 32mm, 28mm, 25mm, and 23mm tires with various loads and did not find the tire size made nearly as much difference in pace as you might think. Weight did though.

You mention Cuben fiber... Not sure if you are serious, but you really get very little bang for the buck in weight reduction with exotic gear. It might be fine for shedding the last few grams, but it isn't too hard to get total gear weight for camping and cooking down to 8-12 pounds with no exotic stuff and not all that much expense. I do splurge a bit on the sleeping bag and pad though.

If you are serious about dropping gear weight you will find a lot of useful hints at:
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/Ultralight

nun

For the big camping items I've found it's worth investing in modern lightweight equipment because they are far lighter than the traditional alternatives. A modern shelter, sleeping bag, pad and cooking equipment combined can weight under 5lbs. You can also save 5 or 10lbs by using a non-traditional bike to tour.

intransit1217

Sixty-fiver, when your Kuwahara is loaded for bear, and assuming no wind and no hills, what is your average speed? And I know it's your speed.

robert schlatte

My Soma Saga with racks but no bags probably weighs just south of 30 lbs. When loaded for touring I maintain 15 to 16mph on level pavement. The sensation of speed is relative. I don't expect to go as fast as on a road bike but on the other hand I don't feel like I am going slowly. Only when a group of road riders blow by me am I reminded that I'm not going as fast as I think I am. On the other hand, those roadies will probably stop after several hours while I will be riding for 8 to 10 hours. The hare vs. the tortoise analogy occurs to me. At any rate to the OP, I hope you get AWOL figured out- that looks like a really nice ride.

Sixty Fiver

On the out and back last weekend we averaged 16kmh over a hillier and winder 102 km, with some of gear being shuttled back the ride home (120km) was 24kmh... note that some folks were riding much lighter than I was and were younger and less experienced.

One might note that once we set up camp they were pretty much sacked out after eating while the old guys stayed up later and were up earlier to get the camp running... we were probably better at pacing ourselves.

My other touring bike and I have gone out for centuries (lightly loaded) and done those in 7 hours and with a lighter set up I tend to run out in the low to mid 20's.

A few extra pounds on the bike is pretty meaningless unless you are an ultra light credit card tourist... survivability and load carrying abilities are more important.

bmike

Gatorskins are like -8mph right there...

Get some nicer tires on there and put some miles on it.
I jump from the Ti Indy Fab to a Fargo. The difference is noticeable... from 28s or 32s to Conti Race Kings or WTB Vulpines. From aggressive geometry to more relaxed - both I can ride all day (when fit!) - but the Fargo goes were the IF can't... courses for horses. But, each comes up to speed and cruises just fine, in its own way. Something that helped me was riding each consistently... riding a featherweight, go fast, race geometry bike all summer and then jumping on the touring rig in the fall isn't good for the psyche - everything will be slower...

And with the right kit, there is no reason why the Merlin can't tour.

vik 

I had the same experience with my LHT riding it unloaded or with a light load [I'm 180 without clothes for reference]. I got some very fast supple tires to ensure it wasn't the tires. My test route is flat so it's not weight related.

My conclusion the frame is just too stiff and it doesn't get in sync with my pedalling so it feels dead. I find it accelerates okay up to a certain speed and then it really doesn't react a whole lot with additional effort.

As long as you are content to cruise at that speed it's okay.

Helping confirm this [at least to me] is that the bike rides better and better with a heavy load which helps get the frame flexing.

Thing is I am rarely carrying a heavy load any more so that bike is getting sold.

mm718

What differences do you notice between the two. I wanted to try the Hypers but the durability doesn't look great? Are the Ranonneur Pros better in this regard? Does the ride differ much between the Hypers and Ranonneur Pros?

vik 

As you have seen there is no answer to this question that doesn't originate from you.

Lots of folks are content with touring setups I think are ludicrously heavy and others get by with so little it boggles my mind.

What matters is are you having fun and do you want to tour with what you have? If you are the type to push your limits replace "fun" with "achieving you goals".

Life is too short to keep and ride a bike you don't love.

Personally I continue to lighten my bike and my gear - so far I have not regretted that trend so I keep working at it.

One thing I will add [related to my recent post above] don't get hung up on weight alone. If you take a light bike and stick stiff slow tires on it your be putting a lot of energy into rolling resistance and not going fast. The same is true for an overly stiff frame. Although they both come with a weight penalty you could get to a light weight by hanging bling components on a very stiff frame and have a light bike that's a tank in the speed department.

It's easy to assess weight hence we focus on it, but it's not the only consideration.

sstorkel

On dry roads, I don't notice much difference in ride quality between the Randonneur Pro and the Voyager Hyper.

I don't tend to get many flats, but have had a couple with the Hyper. Vittoria's website used to suggest that the Hyper had excellent cut protection but the Pro offered better puncture protection. All of my flats with the Hyper were caused by thin pieces of metal (an office staple, a piece of wire, etc) that penetrated the rubber just enough to nick the inner tube. So far, the Pro seems to be better in this regard.

fietsbob

Credit card touring = bring less, spend more a day for food and overnight lodging.


OP's Black Bike seems like it will take racks front and rear , Or you can skip the racks and get a trailer for your gear..

Hurry or wait till next June, wet season is on it's way.. soon ..

mdilthey

My touring bike is also my racing bike. it's 27.5lbs, and I regularly hold 15-16mph average for centuries.

Keep riding it. When your legs build up some more, you'll go faster.

nun

I'd really like to see more people touring on cross bikes and endurance bikes like the Roubaix, Synapse, Infinito, Rokh etc. You might want to change the wheels and gearing a bit, but you end up with a sub 20lbs bike that is fun to ride unloaded and can work very well for lightweight touring on roads and fire trails.

Nick94804

i ride 150-200 miles a week, half of them in the Berkeley hills. My effing legs are just fine. I'm paying attention to nun here. I bought this AWOL frame because I wanted to be able to do some leightweight bike camping, mostly on roads but occasionally not. Today's 50 wasn't quite as bad. Brake drag is kind of a *****. I don't hate it, but the effort to ride it in the high teens is higher than even my mtn bike with road slicks. Its a Small frame. Can it possibly be too stiff? I'm going to ride it up Diablo tomorrow. Hopefully I won't have a heart attack getting it up the hill.

LuckySailor

[QUOTE=headloss;17091118]My 520 comes in at about 27# with rear rack attached... I'd call that average for a touring bike. It's still a joy to ride anywhere but a cx course with 28mm tires mounted when I'm in commuting mode and not touring mode.

Ok, I'm jealous. My 520 weighs in at 36#. How do you get down that low? I'm using 36 spoke Mavics, 36's for rubber,Brooks B-17, and S&S couplers. Does that equal 9 pounds more?

Sixty Fiver

[QUOTE=LuckySailor;17094399]The S&S couplers and Brooks saddle do add some weight... and you aren't running weight weenie wheels and tyres.

My wheels are reasonably light (Arvon hubs laced to CR18 rims) but the 26 by 2.0 tyres and Brooks saddle add some grams but I would not trade either.

headloss 

I'm not doing anything crazy. 2002 model with stock Bontrager Fairlane rims and LX hubs (although I switch out a DT Swiss TK540 wheelset with XT rear and LX dynamo front for loaded touring... that wasn't what was on last time I weighed it). As weighed, it was the stock wheels, 28mm tires, Campy Athena shifters driving stock Shimano derailleurs (105/LX) and crank(105). The seatpost is a Thomson Master and the saddle a Terry Liberator. Stem is a Salsa as is the handlebar (cowbell2). Rack is a more recent Bontrager BackRack. Brakes are TRP 8.4. Frame size is 53cm.

mm718

Thanks for the info. So you don't notice any differences in rolling resistance between the two? What about durability? Thanks.

BigAura

My Surly LHT is 27lbs excluding racks & fenders. My Surly cross-check was 23.5 lbs excluding racks and fenders. I've since sold the cross-check, which I only used for a few bike-camping, weekend, light & fast trips. If I decide to put together a new light & fast rig I'd definitely be looking for something lighter and quicker than the cross-check.

Sharpshin

I just did a 2,000 miler June-July on a Conti Gatorskin up front and a Gator Hardshell (more rubber and armored sidewalls) in back. Four flats, one up front three in back, so similar I even took a photo....



....in every case a maybe 5mm sliver of steel retread wire through center tread.

Hardshells are apparently the latest and greatest from Conti, $10 more than regular Gatorskins. Dunno that the Hardshells are better tho, almost the first test ride on 'em shortly before the tour I took a 2" nail through center tread and out the sidewall of the brand new Hardshell in back (hence I took one of my older regular Gatorskins up front on tour) . I haven't had a flat through the sidewall on any tire so far other than a tear on the ridiculously fragile sidewalls on the first ride on a set of Vittoria Randonneurs (??) so I dunno the additional difficulty of mounting the Gator Hardshells is worth it over the regular Gatorskins.

Anyways my redone '89 Voyageur with front and rear racks and fenders weighs in at 33 pounds, 70 or 80 total loaded with gear and water.

I'm content to roll along at a sedate 10mph; still adds up on an all-day ride (I averaged 65 miles/day over a 33 day ride), for me rolling slow allows me more time to appreciate the scenery and not have my eyes locked front and center nearly as much.

Mike

Nick94804

On my coastal tour, I had a goal: 60 miles, or 4 hours. I exceeded that twice, once when there were no rooms in or around Trinidad (Crescent City-Arcata) and my last day from Bodega Bay - Richmond. I honestly have no desire to ride for 10 hours/day. I admire those of you who do it, I'm just not one of you.

LeeG

This is a funny thread.

Sixty Fiver

I am partial to riding with as few breaks as possible... the 60 and 80 mile legs of our weekend ride had far too many of them with people needing to stop for this or that.

Sunday's ride is 75km out with one stop in the middle and then a longer break at the end to enjoy some feasting and sight-seeing and then it is 75km back with that singular rest stop.

Blindhog

So do you think the hubs are the difference? The 105s making the Volpe feel more responsive? (I assume 105 is > XT but Shimano grades confuse me.)