cyccommute 

We touring cyclists are mostly responsible for the problem of touring bikes not being profitable. Many touring cyclist bought bikes 30 years or we buy bikes that were made 30 years ago and then wonder why there aren't any touring bikes being made. If we put a crowbar into our wallets more often than every 30 to 40 years, there might just be more touring bikes out there.

shipwreck

Post # 23 is pretty good advice. Look at this, touring enthusiasts cant even agree on the reasons a shop may or may not know anything about touring!

In my experience, some shops are boutiques with time trial bikes and sram red moodily lit on pedestals, and a concierge who stares at you blankly before reaching for a mountain bike tire when you asked if they carried any 27 inch commuters. And yet, stopping at a shop a little like this on a short tour, most of the staff came out to look at and admire or at least comment on my converted to three speed 72 Raleigh international with saddle bags and toe clips.(they did not have a 27", and I held no grudge). It was such an alien bicycle to them, yet they were interested.
There is another shop where they actually close down for a few days so the whole staff can go on the Katy trail, and they know about touring, yet they cater to the Fixie hipster crowd.

robow

I'm not saying that even a general consensus is reached on many issues at this forum but again you'll find more knowledgeable opinions from people that have actually toured than the hit or miss from a young sales kid that knows somebody who knows somebody that has done it before. It's up to the reader to glean the useful information from the chaff. But if you take a question that is often asked repeatedly such as, "What's a good rim to build a set of touring wheels on?", if you do a search, you'll find the same 3 or 4 rims mentioned every time. Now some might offer strong opinions on which of the 4 they feel is "best" but I guarantee if you go to many of the lbs around here and if one is an exclusive Trek dealership, he's going to put you in a 32 spoke Bontrager wheel, because: #1 He doesn't know any better and #2 that's what he sells and will stand to make money on.

These forums have been a blessing to even someone such as myself who has toured for decades because I can still come on here and learn something new that I have not tried nor would have I known about it if only talking to local bike shops.

So a Big Thank You to all those that post on here with knowledge that they have obtained first hand and do so in a respectful manner (most of the time)

boomhauer

It's me....or people like me....

i walked into a Trek store in El Paso. The price difference between a Trek Hybrid and a 520 was about double.

I bought the Hybrid and put on my own rack then rode it to Canada from the parking lot.
No problems.

In my mind it was an easy choice.

Maybe most other people buy a hybrid vs. a touring bicycle.

Sixty Fiver

Touring might be seen as being more mainstream when you are here with a concentration of touring and long distance cyclists but the market is still very small compared to other genres, it has been growing but one is still going to experience issues if you go to a lot of shops where they are understandably going to be focussing their sales and marketing to what makes them money.

We specialize in touring bicycles and a good percentage of my clients are hard core tourists who have also related that finding anyone that knows anything is a difficult proposition.

When production of bicycles moved to aluminium and carbon steel remained the popular choice for touring bicycles and would say this is what has kept us in business... there is not a lot of demand for custom steel road bicycles or mountain bikes.

The largest LBS here only carries a limited number of Trek 520 bicycles and this handful pales in comparison to the wall to wall selection of road, off road, and city oriented bicycles.

Sixty Fiver

This is another important point.

Unlike road and mtb, the changes in touring bicycles have been slight and what worked 30 years ago still works today and a good bike from the 70's or 80's will hold up well to a current production bicycles like the 520 or Surly LHT which are probably the two most popular, off the peg touring bikes one can buy.

Go back as far as one likes and touring bikes have never comprised more than 1-2% of the market... it is and continues to be a luxury segment of the market with riders needing to have the resources and time to spend longer periods on the road instead of being weekend warriors.

I the early 80's very few companies even made a touring specific bicycle as the demand shifted to mountain bikes which can also serve double duty, especially the mid 80's models that took a lot of their cues and componentry from touring bicycles.

My expedition touring bike is 27 years old... many of my customers still have touring bikes they purchased or had built 20 years ago and they just come in for upgrades and tune ups.

MassiveD

I think that is totally wrong 65 er. Touring bikes are and could be completely different today. Just as it wouldn't make a lick of difference to the TdeF if they raced on bikes from the 70s, you ca tour on old bikes, it isn't ideal.

When I came back from my first post career tour in 05 I looked at my bike that had had minor problems over the 2 week trip, and realized the bike had been great. But then I flipped it around, and realized I could profitably change every single feature of the bike except possible the Brooks.

Toruing bikes are different in the sense that virtually every part of them has seen tech change. They could be evolved from this point given than almost anyone can dream up improvements. To the extent that they are from the 70s, that makes changes easy. You work with Arvon, he pretty much redesigned his bikes from the ground up. I think quite a few things he has done are real improvements. If one combined all the possible useful changes the bike would be very different. But tourists are stuck in the past.

What about your innovative take down touring bike. That got a bit of a ho hum response as I recall, yet cheating the airlines out of cheating us on baggage, could actually save us all a ton of money. Now, of course small and take apart bikes have been around for a while, but they can be innovated.

The other thing about tourists, is that if you take the overall sport of touring the bike is a small part of the potential overall costs. And the reality is that you can do without changing it, even though it has changed, and could change a lot more. So when faced with stuff like huge new airline costs, the cost o f all the other gear, a lot of people are willing to hold back on the bike. In road racing the bike can be the major cost.

bikemig 

Agree with pretty much everything other than the idea that touring is a "luxury segment." People who are willing to spend a lot of time on the road camping tend to be in their 20s, retired, have teaching jobs, and/or are willing to get out of the rat race for a period of time. But I don't think of it as a luxury part of the sport and the top end touring bikes tend to be fairly reasonably price compared to top end racing bikes.

hueyhoolihan

good observation. chewing gum is available just about everywhere and there's always a good selection.

and funny you should mention crowbars. i've been looking for a good one, used of course, they last forever. sometimes you can pick them up for next to nothin'.

Sixty Fiver

Time is a luxury...

fietsbob

And a commodity you have to sell to live indoors and Buy stuff . Politics in Europe they Citizen-Voters seem to have gotten more paid time off in the summer .

and so there are abundant services for their travels .

SparkyGA

From the same area as you and know which shop you are talking about (I question if they are trying to sell me a bike part or hockey gloves when I walk in there LOL). Thankfully we have some good smaller shops that are much more knowledgable about touring and commuting in the area

(It's crazy when you walk into a shop and you have to explain to the mechanic how to tension a single speed chain or explain hub gears to them. Using racks and panniers blows their minds away. Happens more often than you think... )

staehpj1

I agree and will add that most of the tourists I have met on the road or have hosted have not been on high end touring bikes. The bulk of them seem to have been on bikes in the $600-1200 range. There were a few higher priced ones and a few lower, but the large majority fell in that range. Also quite a few were not on touring specific bikes. As a group they generally didn't seem all that obsessed with the bike itself, at least not to the point that they were willing to spend thousands or fuss over the "ultimate build". They seemed to be more likely to share a "good enough is good enough" philosophy.

LuckySailor

The guys in the LBS that I use, are knowledgable and have been on a number of self supported tours. However, when I wanted to put a Rholoff hub on a 520, or have them build a wheel with a SON28 dynamo, or add S&S couplers, I was immediately relegated to freak status. According to one guy in the shop, "I belong to a unique subculture" So, I have 2 choices at this point, tell them to f off and die, or laugh it off. I chose laughter. Now, I did not install the Rohloff hub. Here in the prairies of Canada, no body has these in stock, so no body has them on their bike, and therefore no body knows anything about them! Same with the SON28 dynamo. The couplers, only the owner of the shop had them, on a triple seat bike. The dynamo with a USB port and the couplers just make sense to me. So that's what I got, as well as the gearing and components that I wanted. I did my research, told them what I wanted, took their opinions into consideration-or with a grain of salt when necessary, and did it my way. You can ask all the questions that you want, until you actually do it and have experience with whatever you are questioning you wil never know how it fits into your kind of touring. The saying goes like this: Opinions are like butt holes. We all have them and they all stink.

Bassmanbob

Thanks again guys. I appreciate the continued input.

Nick: I will definitely check out your shop the next time I'm in the Tampa area. Unfortunately, I think I will be in Tampa a number of times the next few months. My mother-in-law is currently being treated at the Moffitt Cancer Center in Tampa.

Sixty Fiver

We have built bikes with Rohloff hubs but we don't keep them in stock waiting for someone to come and buy one, it ties up a lot of money and we can order one up and have it here in a week.

The same applies to any top of the line component, you are not going to see shops laying in a deep stock of Di2 groupos since they run around 5k and get ordered as needed.

Sixty Fiver

A good number of my long standing customers came to me from there when they were not taken care of properly in respect to proper fitting and after experiencing shoddy or overpriced service.

When you run a small shop you cannot afford to do anything but your absolute best for every customer that walks through the door, big shops should keep this in mind as even though they may be able to afford to lose a customer or two, their reputation suffers.

None of the shops in the city really cater to touring cyclists and it is only in the past few years they have really seen how important the commuter market is as mtb and road bike sales have remained flat or even declined.

LuckySailor

65er, my meaning was that you don't belittle your customers by telling them that those items are really needless, and that because I want them I belong to a unique little subculture of tourers, just because nobody else in town has a touring bike with those parts. You don't need a dynamo because LED's are the way to go. Carry a solar panel to charge your phone. Rohloff hubs are too expensive-go with Shimano or….And since you haven't been on multiple tours taking your bike or renting every time you travel S&S couples are a waste of money. (I'm always thankful for you installing mine!) I don't expect anyone to keep high ticket items on hand. You're right they can generally be had in about a week. Cheers!

Sixty Fiver

I understand completely... not stocking an item because it is not financially prudent is different from dismissing customers and telling them they don't need a certain part.

Nice to hear that you are enjoying the S&S conversion.

jrickards

You are unique and as much as you may learn from reading and talking to others, including the knowledgeable, only you can make the final say. You can narrow down your selection based on what you read and hear but you have to try out the bike/equipment and then you can see if it "fits" you and your specific needs. Ortlieb may make the best waterproof panniers in the world and you might be recommended to get them but you may be happier riding an unloaded bike and pulling a trailer. You may be recommended to get a Trek 520 but it might not feel comfortable to you and you might end up with a more upright (MTB-style) bike. I assume that my LBS doesn't know everything about all bikes and stuff and I go in with a list (in my head perhaps) of options I'd like to consider. The LBS may know specific things about specific bike such as Bike X has a problem with its BB and it may need replacement after a 1,000km.

Hope this helps.

tarwheel 

Most bike shops have few bikes and/or equipment related to touring. Apparently that's not where the money is. However, there are exceptions. REI, for one, carries a fair amount of touring equipment and bikes, altho it's more of a general sporting good store than cycling shop. Most of the bike shops in my metro area cater to the wannabe racers and/or occasional riders. The shop that I use is one of the exceptions, and they cater to commuters, city and MUT riders, and tourers. At least one of the owners has ridden his bike across the US. That's one of the reasons why I use that shop.

RidingMatthew

@tarwheel which shop do you go to ?

BigAura

Local Bike Shop is a general term for a shop that sells bicycles, the same as a Clothing Store sells clothes but may have no knowledge of "Western Wear" or "Haute Couture". Touring is a small niche so it's up to you.

tarwheel 

Oak City Cycling in Raleigh.

headloss 

A good touring shop is hard to find, I only ever found one that was touring-oriented in Chicagoland. A lot of urban commuter oriented shops will carry touring bikes and those are much more common. From where I currently live, there is one good commuter/touring shop about 90 minutes away in either direction and I'm the same distance from the GAP which sees a lot of touring cyclists...

The only thing I find offensive in the original post was that the shop recommended a bike with front suspension. Unfortunately there are two kinds of people, ones willing to say "I don't know" (when applicable) and the ones willing to just make stuff up. Hybrids are definitely decent for touring purposes, but my 520 is definitely ideal for it.