BigAura

Thanks. That's why I asked: reality???

I'm not buying one, my post was just a comment. But I would like to see a real touring-world report.

fishman473

I'm more than a little rusty with my basic electrical knowledge (if you know a good website where I can refresh, please share), but, well perhaps this page will provide more detail: iPhone 6 and 6 Plus Capable of Faster Charging Using iPad 2.1A Adapter - Mac Rumors

I hadn't considered that the generator would be AC power since it isn't plugged into a wall!

My biggest concern is damaging the phone with on-off charges in stop-and-go conditions. Keeping it above 9mph won't be hard, perhaps the plan would be to only fire up the generator when I'm on the open road, on flat ground or going downhill.

EDIT: its not really clear to me where the extra power goes if I am going FASTER than 9mph. Does the generator have some limiter on what it will produce, does the Sienwave have a limit of what it can take in or produce? IE, will it charge faster if I average 15mph instead of 10 or 12mph?

BigAura

I would never charge my iPhone directly with any inconstant power source. I thought you said you were bringing an external power pack? Of course this is another level of inefficiency.


I think it maxes out, starts just throwing out heat.

Bicycle365

Correct! Over voltage circuits generally disperse excess as heat.

And as far as the iPhone6 and 6 Plus charging faster at 2.1A or (2100mA if you like), of course if it will take more current it will charge faster.

The issue is that you are only going to get 1/2 an Amp MAX with a 3 watt generator. The 1.5 watt output generator is 1/4 of an AMP. The sinewave won't even be able to produce standard USB power because its not getting enough input to start with. (see FAQ's on their site)

My Nexus7 tablet will take 1 amp (1000mA) and be happy, but it will also charge at the USB Standard minimum of 1/2 amp (500mA) albiet slower.
I also use a "buffer battery" so I dont have to worry about speed/stops/etc.. the system on my bike works like this:

Bicycle365

For the link you posted about the Apple iPhone6/6+...

Remember MINIMUM USB specs are 500mA (1/2 amp) at 5 volts dc
Lots of newer devices (my Nexus7 tablet for example) can take 1000mA (1 amp)
The new Nexus 6, iPhones, most larger tablets etc can accept up to 2 or 2.1 amps (2100mA)

The photo shows on the left:
A device charging at (1 amp) 1000mA, you would EXPECT the meter to show 5 watts since USb is 5 volts x 1 amp =5 watts. It actually shows 6.5 watts the "extra" 1.5 is lost in the USB power brick in stepping down 120VAC to 5VDC.

The photo shows on the right:
Is showing the 6 / 6+ taking 2.1 amps (2100mA) of charge. You would expect here to see 10.5 watts on the meter as 5 volts x 2.1 Amps= 10.5 watts, It actually shows 12.6 watts, again the "extra" 2.1 watts is lost in the USB power brick( note it is a larger brick with 2 ports and an LED light so the loss is more than the standard apple brick on the left)

bmike

I have a SON hub on my IF randonneuring bike and a Shimano on my Krampus. I use the USBwerk instead of the sinewave as it has a small cache battery to smooth out the on / off power. I added 6% to my iPhone 5s in 32 minutes the other night riding at an aerobic pace. Real world will be variable based on terrain.

fishman473

volts x Amps = watts, see its simple stuff like that which I've forgotten since high school, that will make figuring this-all out a lot easier.

I appreciate your input, and please don't take this to think that I'm arguing with you, cause you obviously understand all this better than I do, plus its late and I'm tired and my head is foggy so, I'm going to wait til morning to really try to dig into this a bit more....

With that said, the Sinewave faq page states that they this device can output up to 1 amp, and that there are safeguards in place (a 10-second chagrining star-up delay for one) to provide a consistent charge and it specifically says it safe to use with devices like the iPhone. Maybe they're blowing smoke, but it sounds like they thought it through.

My hope is that I could charge the iPhone directly most of the time to keep it topped up, knowing that I can disengage the generator when not needed, and as other devices need power plug them in too. I'd rather have the battery as a back-up for off the bike rather than a through-put mechanism.

Are you saying the dynamo will have an over-voltage circuit or the Sinewave?

Would the "Special" model Velologic be better suited to my needs or would it overpower the Sinewave anyway?

I have a feeling sitting down with a pen and paper and mathing-thing out a bit will clear up some of my confusion... in the morning though.

Tourist in MSN

I have not used an Apple product, only Android stuff and battery packs. That said, in my opinion if you are concerned that your device could be damaged, you could get a splitter cable so that the USB feeds into both a battery and your device simultaneously, the battery should buffer any voltage spikes.

I do not think excess power creates heat in this case, I think the hub puts out what the hub wants to put out for voltage (more voltage at higher speed) but the USB converter will only accept the amount of wattage that it needs to satisfy the device(s) plugged into the USB.

I got one of these gizmos recently, it is great. (Actually I bought several.)

USB Charger Doctor Mobile Battery Tester Power Detector Voltage Current Meter SY | eBay

I can see what the voltage coming out of my USB is and the amperage going to whatever I plugged into the USB port. The gizmo displays voltage for a few seconds, then amperage for a few seconds, etc. Difficult to see outside without cupping your hand over the display however. Shipping from China might take a month, but you just have to be patient.

If the link above does not work, try a search on ebay for: USB Tester Power Voltage Current Meter The gizo is called a Charger Doctor. It consumes 0.04 amps, so it does not take too much power to operate.

SlowAndSlower

@fishman The are indeed a number of articles on building your own hub generator and USB chargers on the internet. I have built and tested some my self with varying degrees of success from total failure to so-so. But feel I learned a thing or two. Using a battery as a buffer has a level of inefficiency to it as there is loss across the battery. Maybe not a big deal depending on the application. Some circuits use supercapacitors to level out the output to avoid this loss and provide stand light capabilities. Hence a built in delay while the supercapacitor comes up to charge. Maybe, using a battery buffer or supercapacitor one could get a 1 amp output but the question is for how long?

As far as I know the iPhone has circuitry that "asks" the charging circuit it's capabilities before accepting the charge. I gathered this from looking at the latest Minty circuitry.

I have both a SON and Shimano hub generator and LUXOS U headlamps with USB charging. With the light on and at "speed" I may be able to do some light USB charging.

I decided I wanted a hub generator light system on my TransAm ride when I found that getting an early morning start I could avoid some winds and heat. Also I like my Garmin 500 and I wanted to be able to charge it if necessary without access to A/C power.

I met a rider in eastern Colorado that was able to ride all night because he had a hub generator and lights. There are many places where you don't miss a whole lot by riding at night except the heat and traffic.

I have found that because I have the hub generator I use the lighting all the time now while riding.

fietsbob

FWIW another option Touring , is a Extra Wheel Trailer Because they Use another front wheel just like the bike does , that 2nd wheel you considered in the OP?
you have the opportunity to build that trailer wheel with another dynohub..

and have it do nothing but charge a Cache/Buffer Battery to recharge the batteries in your other Toys .

Bike trailers - Extrawheel.com

Yan 

I use one on my touring bike. I typically start after 10am and ride into the evening on tour. If you are the early riser camped by 4pm type, I wouldn't bother.

fietsbob

Of course Latitude matters how much daylight You Got ?

summer in the Far north and south is longer than the equatorial, or between the Tropics where it varies much Less ..

Shanghai Vs Stockholm or Sitka Or Ushuaia.

rifraf

Thats the option I took for my Extrawheel having enjoyed such success with my Son28/E-werk/cache battery combo on my bike.

There is a thread in the Thorn (of Thorn Nomad ) forums where member Dan has added "vanes" (strips of material) to his trailer wheel, effectively turning it into a windmill so when he turns his trailer upside down at night when he's camped, the slightest breeze keeps turning the wheel, charging his cache battery etc.

rifraf

I know little about the theory side of electronics and could care less.
My Son28/E-werk/Cache battery combo keeps my iPhone charged fine.
I have to alternate and prioritise my varies electrical devises with regards charging as they all take differing amounts of time to charge.
Speed, therefore terrain affects the needed riding duration to charge my items.
A days average riding (4 to 5 hours meandering around 10 mph) will mostly charge my iPhone 5s from low to either full or close to it.
The following day will be mostly dedicated to my Garmin Edge 800 and topping up my Tikka 2 Petzl haadlight torch.
I have a large storage battery for emergencies but have yet to use it.
Knowing I'm buying a Sony camera with usb charge (most likely an RX100 or maybe A6000) motivated me to get the trailer modded with a charging unit which I'm hopeful will charge a tablet too.
Be aware night riders that there is little useful charging ability, whilst lights are on, making the garmin Edge 800's battery use an incremental amount rather than topping it up it seems.
Daylight riding, sans lights, is the way to get the most from your dynamo hub although when not charging anything, I ride with the lights on regardless of available light.

bmike

I should add, I did this with music playing and the GPS on (was recording my HR / ride with Endomondo)... and the screen stayed lit the entire time, so performance, while moving at a reasonable pace, should be the same or better with the screen off and the phone sitting idle.

rifraf

Heres a link to Dans trailer with weather vanes I mentioned a couple of posts above:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwGvKlMBftc

Tourist in MSN

I honestly can't ever remember using a headlight on a touring bike on a tour, other than tunnels. But I use a GPS and when I have wifi, a tablet. I think of the hub more as a electronic device charger, less as a power source for lighting. Most of the time I am touring, I have a tail light on, but the AAA batteries in it last for a week or longer, take very little time to charge.

Yan 

I'd buy a battery pack in your case. The hub just isn't worth the trouble.

rifraf

I think the hub isn't any trouble.
Needing to sit and watch your items (e.g. phone, tablet etc) charging in the campground bathroom or laundry is the hassle/trouble your trying to avoid.
We are talking hours here to charge a decent size battery pack and all your items, too scared once you start until finished as you know the minute you turn your back on them, someone will steal them.

Wilfred Laurier

I have no experience with modern dynohubs, but my old sturmey archer had no drag when switched off. If you turned the wheel slowly you could feel a slight 'indexing' when the dyno passed a stage of magnets, but the wheel would spin for just as long as a non-dyno wheel when no power was being used. I could definitely feel a difference when it was powering the light, though.

Tourist in MSN

A battery pack that would have lasted for over a week would have been a lot heavier and more trouble than a dyno hub would have been. And I am not sure how you propose I would have used it to charge up my AA batteries for my GPS.

Perhaps you could elaborate on why you think a dynohub for charging devices is troublesome?

Yan 

Troublesome because you'd have to take the time to build a new wheel, including the time you are spending right now reading this thread to justify your decision.

I use an AA charger which can also feed a usb output via the batteries. I take a bunch of rechargeable AA's to power all my devices. Once every few days I have to stay at a motel to shower and do laundry. I top off all my batteries and devices at this time. If you use a paid campsite instead of motel to shower and are worried about the security of your devices while charging, perhaps the nice folks in the camp office will be willing to let you charge your things at their desk, instead of out in public?

I have a dynohub and still don't use it to charge. I can't have yet another cable from the headset area running into my handlebar bag, which I'd have to disconnect every time I remove my bag.

Tourist in MSN

Ok, I understand why you say troublesome. I decided to buy the dynohub when I built up my expedition bike, not an after the fact retrofit. But when I use my 700c touring bike that does not have the dynohub, I usually plan to go for at least a week without being able to plug into a wall outlet. That is a lot of weight for extra AA batteries for GPS (I use rechargable AA and AAA batteries) and camera Li Ion batteries. I find that quantity of spare battery weight more troublesome than a dynohub would have been if I had bought one over a decade ago when I built up that bike.

You apparantly have more luck than me finding nice people in campsite offices. When I made a less than positive comment about a California State Park hiker biker site to one of their staff, they immediately responded that those of us in the hiker biker sites were low revenue customers and we should be grateful for what we got.

rifraf

Well we'll have to agree to disagree Yan.
I think we have different perspectives but thats all good.
Plenty of room for everyone.
I suspect the campgrounds where you are touring happen to have "nicer folks" than here abouts.
I'm security conscious with good reason after my watch of thirty five years was lifted from my bag of clothes immediately outside the shower curtain of a campground shared bathroom.
Kinda shook my faith in "nice folk" somewhat - lol.
I respect the way you roll, but it doesn't work for me and I'll stick with my Son28/E-work/cache battery combo.
Its interesting that we each view each others methods as "Troublesome", but I"m sure the OP can work out their own definition as the road rolls for them.
Always good to hear others reasoning as I often find in listening things I hadn't considered or perhaps prioritised differently.
Different perspectives are good.

Yan 

Wow, that's outrageous. Not at all my experience in up state New York and Ontario.