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  1. #1
    Senior Member dave42's Avatar
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    my dream drivetrain for touring

    42/39/30 10 speed 11-36

    Friction front. Indexed rear. On 700x25 wheels, probably.

    One of these days, ill build one.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Jim Kukula's Avatar
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    Why not more like 42/32/26 or some such. Hauling 100 pounds of harmonicas etc. up the Appalachian hills, the low gears are nice! 21 inches ain't bad, but.... I'd go lower than my 17 inch, but then I am 59 yrs old and BMI 24+ so I need a lot of help!

  3. #3
    don't try this at home. rm -rf's Avatar
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    You are going for half-step gearing with the 39 & 42?

    Here's the 30,39,42 and 11-36 10 speed:

    30-39-42 and 11-36.jpg

    My preference would be something like this. It has similar lowest gears, and small gaps in the 10 to 20 mph range on each chainring.

    26,34,48 and 12-29 11-speed (Campagnolo has this cassette. And it would work on 11-speed Shimano, too. There's also a 12-26 that adds the 18 cog and drops the 29 cog.)

    26-34-48 and 12-29.jpg

  4. #4
    Senior Member Jim Kukula's Avatar
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    Ha! when I am climbing steep hills, one problem I run into sometimes is that my speedometer won't read below 2 mph!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave42 View Post
    42/39/30 10 speed 11-36

    Friction front. Indexed rear. On 700x25 wheels, probably.

    One of these days, ill build one.
    Kind of odd to limit the tires, assuming you meant tires and not wheels, to 25 mm and also have a stump pulling granny. You may also need an older, less contoured triple FD cage for the 39T to 42T shift, perhaps even a FD meant for a double. I'm shifting an eight tooth difference with a RX100 triple FD, but it's close.

    Brad

  6. #6
    Senior Member dave42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rm -rf View Post
    You are going for half-step gearing with the 39 & 42?



    Here's the 30,39,42 and 11-36 10 speed:

    30-39-42 and 11-36.jpg

    My preference would be something like this. It has similar lowest gears, and small gaps in the 10 to 20 mph range on each chainring.

    26,34,48 and 12-29 11-speed (Campagnolo has this cassette. And it would work on 11-speed Shimano, too. There's also a 12-26 that adds the 18 cog and drops the 29 cog.)

    26-34-48 and 12-29.jpg
    yeah, i want to give half step a try. But, the 12-29 looks good, too. Id run a straight block if i could.

  7. #7
    Senior Member dave42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradtx View Post
    Kind of odd to limit the tires, assuming you meant tires and not wheels, to 25 mm and also have a stump pulling granny. You may also need an older, less contoured triple FD cage for the 39T to 42T shift, perhaps even a FD meant for a double. I'm shifting an eight tooth difference with a RX100 triple FD, but it's close.

    Brad
    Yep, double FD. im shifting a 26/36/46 with a double road fd now. It's fine. Friction on the front solves a lot of issues.

  8. #8
    Senior Member dave42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kukula View Post
    Ha! when I am climbing steep hills, one problem I run into sometimes is that my speedometer won't read below 2 mph!
    Heard that. Im not very strong right now. Ive done a lot riding in w. Nc in the past with a 44 inch low, unloaded. Not now. Goodness.

  9. #9
    Senior Member dave42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kukula View Post
    Why not more like 42/32/26 or some such. Hauling 100 pounds of harmonicas etc. up the Appalachian hills, the low gears are nice! 21 inches ain't bad, but.... I'd go lower than my 17 inch, but then I am 59 yrs old and BMI 24+ so I need a lot of help!
    im with you. A little younger, but probably in worse shape. I could throw a 26 on there and still have the half step, of course. And still be in range of an sgs derailleur.

  10. #10
    Senior Member CliffordK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave42 View Post
    42/39/30 10 speed 11-36

    Friction front. Indexed rear. On 700x25 wheels, probably.

    One of these days, ill build one.
    Is that 42/39 or 52/39?

    I think of gearing as percent changes.

    So, when you go from 39 to 42, that is an 8% change.

    If your cassette jumps from say: 11, 13, 15, ....

    11 to 13 is about a 16% change.

    So, adding the 42 would give you the equivalent of less than a single jump in the RD.
    So, your shift pattern would be something like:
    Big Front, Small rear
    -1 on front to middle
    +1 on rear, +1 on front (to big)
    -1 on front to middle
    + 1 on rear, + 1 on front.

    It just would be awkward (unless you programmed a computer to control it for you). And, even with computer control, one would likely have a lot of redundancy and never quite get your perfect half jumps. I suppose there would be an advantage of a slight boost... jumping the half cog equivalent. But, it would be awkward.

    I'd be tempted to put in a single speed front chainring, and something like an 11 spd 11/42 rear cassette, although one might still want escape gearing on the front chainring.

    Your better gearing would be something like:
    11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 20, 23, 27, 32
    Coupled to whatever crank you choose, 52, 40, 28???

    Try to keep most of your shifting in the 11-16 range, then hit the "escape gears" as needed. So in the range of 11 to 16, or even 11-20, one would get essentially the same as the half gearing that you're proposing.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Jim Kukula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post

    -1 on front to middle
    +1 on rear, +1 on front (to big)
    Yeah, that kind of half-step front chainring set-up has a long heritage! It's a regular pattern, so it isn't that hard to work with.

    My six-speed Brompton works that way - the three speed rear hub is really wide range, then the two front chainrings are relatively closely spaced. It's just that shifting pattern that one uses. Of course, a 2x3 system is a bit less tiresome than a 2x10, to work through the range! But of course there is no need to crawl through the range.

  12. #12
    Senior Member CliffordK's Avatar
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    I still use downtube shifters... so if I want to jump half a cassette, I just flick the lever to the desired position.

    Usually on the level, I'll just do single step "trimming" with the RD.
    Then when I approach a hill, I'll throw the front which gives me the equivalent of about 2 or 3 shifts in the rear (but obviously still have a lot of overlap between the two).

    I suppose I can imagine using the FD for single steps, and the RD for double steps, it just seems a bit backward.


    However, I have wondered if the configuration of a 2x5 and a 2x11 setup should be radically different.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave42 View Post
    yeah, i want to give half step a try. But, the 12-29 looks good, too. Id run a straight block if i could.
    On my last tour I used 46/42/24 triple and 8 speed 11/32 cassette, thus the outer and middle provided half step gearing.

    That tour had a lot of ups and downs. I find that the half step gearing is best where the ground is flatter (such as rail to trails), thus with half step you can make a subtle shift for a slight change of wind or a slight change in grade. But my last tour had so much up and down that I never really got the benefit of half step, all my shifts were a bigger change.

  14. #14
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    huge amount of Ratio redundancies and overlap, as 3rd post chart shows..


    Took the half step 48-44-28 off the SBI .. went for a 10 & 16 t difference in the triple ("alpine"), myself , .. 12 years of touring using that ..

    moved on to the 14 speed IGH, now..

  15. #15
    nun
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
    On my last tour I used 46/42/24 triple and 8 speed 11/32 cassette, thus the outer and middle provided half step gearing.

    That tour had a lot of ups and downs. I find that the half step gearing is best where the ground is flatter (such as rail to trails), thus with half step you can make a subtle shift for a slight change of wind or a slight change in grade. But my last tour had so much up and down that I never really got the benefit of half step, all my shifts were a bigger change.
    I rode 42/26 x 11/34 for a long time and really liked it, I'm now on 46/34 x 12/36 and find that good too. I just don't see the need for half step with a 10 speed cassette

  16. #16
    djb
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    Once you have ridden cassettes with smaller percentages of jumps between shifts, its really nice. I would even say that when loaded, having shorter jumps are just as nice when unloaded and going fast (and dare I say as we get older....).
    So if I were to go 10 speed, I'd love to take advantage of all those cogs and use chainring s and a cassette that still allows some nice smaller jumps. Even a 12-30 ten sp cassette with a 44/34/22 can give you under 19g.i which would work great with a full load of maybe 40lbs.
    For less weight and unloded, you could go with 48/36/24 and that's a nice range too, and you can always go with the 34t cassettes to get a good low.

  17. #17
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    I did my dream transmission on my bike.

    Mountain Crankset vs STI Groupset / It?s Alive! | Cycle/Naturel

    24-34-44 on 11-32 cassette with 700x35c tire.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlp View Post
    I did my dream transmission on my bike.

    Mountain Crankset vs STI Groupset / It?s Alive! | Cycle/Naturel

    24-34-44 on 11-32 cassette with 700x35c tire.
    Yup, basic mt bike gearing. Low can be 22,24 or 26, middle 30,32,34 or 36. Big can be 42,44,46 or 48. I'm currently using 26,36 46 with a 34-12 out back on 26x1.75 tires. On a Burley runabout.

  19. #19
    littlecircles bmike's Avatar
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    i finally got a rohloff on my rough stuff / touring / adventure bike. no complaints so far... its been my 'dream' drivetrain for a long time.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
    Yup, basic mt bike gearing. Low can be 22,24 or 26, middle 30,32,34 or 36. Big can be 42,44,46 or 48. I'm currently using 26,36 46 with a 34-12 out back on 26x1.75 tires. On a Burley runabout.
    Yes but with a STI 105 shifter, hence the ''I made it''.

    10425024_10152963324040630_7758547300243990882_n.jpg

  21. #21
    Senior Member bud16415's Avatar
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    Here is my half step gearing and I love it.

    45-42-24 X 12,14,16,18,21,24,28,32,36

    I haven’t posted in quite some time but started a thread back in 2012 as to how I came up with what worked best for me. The thoughts were quite along the lines of the OP here.

    If it helps here is a link to the logic I used. (45-42-24) X (12,14,16,18,21,24,28,32,36) = :o)
    What's not in your legs needs to be in your gears.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave42 View Post
    42/39/30 10 speed 11-36

    Friction front. Indexed rear. On 700x25 wheels, probably.

    One of these days, ill build one.
    Whilst I can understand your choice of rear cassette, what in the name of all thats unholy is that 30T cog doing on your crankset?
    You go for what you like but I'd not be able to resist kicking at least eight minimum of those teeth to the kerb.

    The biggest bugbear of my Rohloff purchase was that I hadn't grasped that my ideal gear inches would put me out of warranty.
    I'm stuck with 17.something utilising a 34T chainring up front and 16T rear, where I'd really like to drop a gear inch at least for laden climbs and/or trailer use.

  23. #23
    <riding now> BigAura's Avatar
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    If you're able to climb any road, you'll encounter, with your fully loaded bicycle, with 21.7 gear inches, then indeed it is a dream drive-train. It seems a little long to me, but i much prefer riding to pushing. There's no theoretical system that makes pushing a bicycle fun, IMO.

  24. #24
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    My dream drive train. A heart/lung/leg/circulatory system that can move my 60yr old body around well. I don't get the attraction for 3x10 drivetrain as some kind of ideal. Every bike I had had an excellent drivetrain. 5 spd worked while I was the limit, 10, 12, 14, 16, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, etc all worked and I was the limit.

    right now a 30/44 with 12/32 8spd(horrors) is ideal but so is my around town 3spd.

  25. #25
    Senior Member dave42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
    If you're able to climb any road, you'll encounter, with your fully loaded bicycle, with 21.7 gear inches, then indeed it is a dream drive-train. It seems a little long to me, but i much prefer riding to pushing. There's no theoretical system that makes pushing a bicycle fun, IMO.
    True. I don't mind walking at all, though, if the bike's not ridiculously heavy.

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