L0NE_W0LF

Hello all!

I am in the very early stages of planning a cross country tour on my Alpha Aluminum Trek Frame, and I am in dire need of some suggestions for a good wheel set.

What I know so far:
- I am currently riding on a Shimano set with blade spokes and I've popped about 4 spokes just riding in the city, I need much stronger and more reliable wheels.
- More spokes are better than fewer for touring wheels
- Hand-built are better than machine built

My questions:
- Is it okay to invest in a nicer back wheel than front? It seems more broken spokes would happen in the back and obviously there is more weight back there.
- What are thoughts on aerospokes or similar spokeless wheels for touring? I understand that maintenance is harder on these types of wheels and the obvious hipster connotations, but are they stronger?
- Suggestions for a rear wheel/wheel set that is reasonably priced (>200$) but very durable
- Can I buy any rear wheel and put the cassette from my current wheel on it, or are there compatibility issues?

Thanks !!!

LeeG

What is the bike, wheel size and load you intend on carrying? Four broken spokes means you might as well get a new wheel.
Bladed spokes make no sense for your application.

L0NE_W0LF

It is a Trek SL 1200 Aluminum frame, I know the wheelset I have right now won't do, I'm planning on getting new ones I just wanted to know what would be best for me.

I'll probably be trailing 40-50 pounds on a BOB trailer. The wheels I have now are 700c

headloss 

You may not need stronger wheels, just a proper rebuild of the wheels you have... that said.

The first is your best bet, beyond that, not touring-specific but all solid wheels.
Wheels don't need to match... 70% or so of your weight is on the back wheel.
Aero spokes are useless. Butted spokes are better than standard.
You can use any rear wheel with a road hub with 130 O.L.D. hub spacing for a road bike... so think Tiagra, 105, Ultegra, etc.
32-36 spokes is what you are aiming for.
Popular touring rims are Velocity Dyad, DT Swiss TK540, Mavic A719 or 319... search for those rims and you'll find more wheel sets.


Velocity 700c Dyad/Tiagra 4600 Touring Wheel Set 36 Spoke - Harris Cyclery bicycle shop - West Newton, Massachusetts
Quality Wheels Sport Series 3 Rear wheel: Shimano 105-5700 32h Black, Velocity A23 700c Black - Modern Bike
Velocity A23 Silver Shimano Ultegra 6800 Road Bike Wheelset Fit SRAM 9 10 11 SPD | eBay
New 700c Road Bike Touring Wheelset Ultegra Hub Open Pro Rim 36 Wheelsmith | eBay
Mavic Open Pro Black Shimano Ultegra 6800 Hubs Road Bike Wheelset 11 Speed 36h | eBay
H Plus Son TB14 Road Bike Wheelset Silver Shimano 5800 8 9 10 11 Speed Hubs | eBay
Shimano 105 Black Hubs Mavic Open Pro 36 Hole Wheelset Wheels Road Bike 8 9 10 S | eBay
Shimano 105 Hubs Mavic Open Pro 36 Hole Wheelset Wheels Road Bike 8 9 10 Speed | eBay

LeeG

A road bike not carrying any weight. Oh heck what Headloss suggested. Don't bother with fancy stuff.

fietsbob

a 36 spoke wheel built on a Shimano hub is safe** ,, damage it on the road, and a shop in most of this country should have a spare to sell you to get you going again.
hand finished , wholesaler machine built . off the peg .. add about $100 labor for a hand built set


** odds are the drive train is Shimano .. Sun CR18 a decent rim for a good price..


If its old and 126 dropout frame this creates quick swap compatibility issues using 130 or 135 29er wheels

bradtx

LONE_WOLF, I have a budget priced wheel set I bought for an in-progress roadie build and I'm evaluating them on another roadie at the moment. Sora hubs, 32 14 gauge spokes and CXP22 rims, that after I spent some tuning time, have shown themselves to be quite reliable and I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to use for what you are planning. My key point is the quality of the wheel's build and your wheels may just need a quality re-build. From what info I found on the web, they're at least as good as the budget set I have.

You can use your current cassette on a different wheel only if the new wheel has a compatible free hub. Shimano 8-10S free hubs are the same with the possible exception of the 7800 10S. The extra weight of the trailer plus cargo will probably warrant lower gearing than what you now have, however. You may want to renew your brake pads also.

Brad

Doug64

There are several good touring wheel combinations as were mentioned in the previous posts.

The wheel I like for 130 mm dropouts, and have the most touring miles on is: Velocity Dyad 36 hole rim, Ultegra (my wife got the Ultegra's) or 105 hubs, and Wheelsmith double butted spokes. They are a good compromise between weight and durability. My wife and I have put a lot of loaded miles on those wheels without a problem. I also have the same rims and spokes built on XT hubs. I've also had pretty good experiences with Tiagra hubs on my CX bike. The hubs held up well, but the stock front rim and spokes caused me some problems. However, it was abused and had a lot of miles on it. I replaced the wheelset with the 105 wheels mentioned above.

Look at Universal Cycles "Custom Wheel Builder" site, and if you have any questions give them a call. They are great to deal with and build an excellent wheel. You can play with the site and spec your own build. Universal Cycles -- Custom Wheelset Builder

One thing you may want to check is how wide of a rim your brakes can handle. I have a road bike similar to yours, TREK 1000, and I'm not sure a wide rim would work well on it. I know I can't get a 28 mm tire by the brakes without deflating the tire. The Dyad rim is a little narrower than some of the other touring rims.

SouthernGent

Not sure how old your Trek 1200 is, but I have a mid-90's 1200 Alum frame with the Sun CR18s / Deore hub that was mentioned above. I just replaced the original front wheel with one about a month ago and I couldn't be happier with it.

chrisx

Seattle?
go to Wright Brothers cycle works in Fremont.
take the wheel building class
and the maintenance class
and the bearing maitnenance class
before you go on tour
Wright Brothers Cycle Works - Seattle USA
I took the wheel building class 2 times, The teacher has built more than 10,000 wheels
As a guess. You are riding a 20 year old wheel, the spokes are brittle with age, so they snap when you hit a bump.
Replace old brittle spokes, with dt swiss straight guage spokes. No more problems. That is my guess.
Tired of guesses over the internet? Learn to fix it your self.

mev

I would probably shy away from them because if you do have problems with them - those problems can be harder to deal with (other than complete wheel replacement).

With that said, I've outfitted my recumbent bikes with aerospoke wheels in part because ones I got are pretty bombproof. Perhaps hip too - but I was going for bombproof on large bike for large rider. Here is a photo of my old recumbent on an 800 mile tour from Ft Collins to Cedar Rapids: https://www.mvermeulen.com/lincoln/big/jul08_01.jpg - Riding a lawn chair down the Lincoln Highway

I have since sold the bike, but the bike+wheels had >6000 miles on it when I sold it - with only slight problem being that once sand things get into middle of the wheel - it is hard to get out and then makes noise as it rotates. The Lightfoot Ranger recumbent I have now, also has same aerospoke wheels. I haven't had problems with those wheels either, though I do a lot more touring on my normal bikes than recumbents.

hueyhoolihan

if it were me, i'd take them to LBS and say that you want them to replace all the spokes with plain 14 gauge spokes. and don't let them talk you out of it. if you want to, it would be a good idea to just buy a spoke wrench, if you don't have one, the spokes, and do it yourself. you might have three unique spoke lengths...

get double butted spokes if you think it's beneficial.

andrewclaus

You asked about using a lighter front wheel. I tried that once and broke a spoke on a tour while braking on a steep hill. Then I learned that the front wheel sees the majority of the load when braking (which is why the front brake is so much more effective than the rear). Picture what happens when you're running and want to stop. You put most of your weight on your front foot.

L0NE_W0LF

Thank you so much - this was very helpful. I've been doing a lot of research and talking to the folks at my local bike store. I would love to build my own wheel on the custom builder, but the bike store people recommended the Mavic Open Pro Sport / Ultegra hub rear wheel - with the deal going on it would be about 180$. What are your thoughts? Do you think I could get a better wheel building my own (within roughly the same price range)?

Also, this may be a dumb question - I know riding on my current jenky wheel is definitely messing up the rim and hub on it, but I'm not doing any further damage to my frame or drive train, am I?

tarwheel 

You can buy wheelsets on line with 35H Velocity Dyad rims and Shimano 105 hubs for $200-250. These should plenty strong enough for your intended use. I've had some 36H Dyad-Ultegra wheels for about 5 years with no broken spokes, using that bike for regular commuting and occasional touring.

Doug64

No, Building a wheel is more art than science. The folks at Universal Cycles have built 1000's of wheels. They know how to do it right. They also seem to build the wheel for less than you can purchase the components separately. If you have never built a wheel before, and don't have the truing stand, dishing tool and tensiometer, you would still need to take the wheels to a shop and get them fine tuned. Even if you have the tools, you have to know how to use them.

My wife's Ultegra/ Dyad wheels on her touring bike have just gone over 11,000 miles. She has had the bike for 4 years with the majority of the miles being loaded touring. They have not even needed truing.

L0NE_W0LF

I didn't mean me personally building the wheel! I meant is the Open Pro/Ultegra a good bargain or could I build one on the Wheel Builder website that would be better for relatively the same price?

L0NE_W0LF

Also, if I do a wheel builder wheel, should I splurge more on nice rims or nice hubs? My budget really only allows for one

MassiveD

The problem with working these issues in with price point issues is that it is a big internet out there, and it is hard to predict what prices you will get stuff at.

I read this through once, and didn't catch what you wheels are at the moment. If you aren't too heavy, and you have reasonable deep rims, you could just replace your spokes and use brass nipples and be ready to go. A proven set of reasonably good rims is a step up on a pig in a poke. But this would suppose that your rims are at least 32, and preferably 36, and I don't know who would do bladed in a 36.

If you are moving to a new touring wheel, more money is better spent on the rim. It is the weak point in the whole equation. And good rims are not terrible expensive. Also moving down a jot in Shimano hubs does not really get you worse gear for touring, can be better. LX is pretty good, or was. Butted spokes are reputedly better, but spokes are the strongest part in a well built wheel, and should never break. But many wheels are not properly built. And building good wheel is not difficult, you can build them yourself, but it probably isn't worth it. Machine built wheels, normally means straight spokes, but with the right components they will be fine, if the wheel is stress relived and final trued before you take it out. I would spend money on getting velocity rims, a good alex rim, or Mavic rim, and there are others. At the moment Velocity is the top name, at a decent price and with easy access to the rims. Get wheelsmith spokes, do not worry about them being straight if the budget requires it. Then buy a decent hub like an LX 30 bucks free delivery for the rear.

A lot of traditional English bicycles were built 36 rear, 32 front, or 40/36. There are variations as to how much load your front end takes relative to different brake systems. With standard calipers I think any of those are OK. I don't really see an advantage other than a trivial amount of weight saved in the spokes. I prefer to keep stuff as uniform as possible. At a different price point you can have wheels where all the spokes are the same length. I don't think you can do that with 36/32, but I haven't looked into it. Probably with an adjustment to flange height. But if your bike has decent front wheel with 32 drilling, you could certainly replace the spokes and nipples and never worry. Don't know what kind of bike you have, but most people seem to prefer panniers. Yes the BOB is well liked. But when speaking of the English systems they predate front racks and panniers. So another reason why we like same wheels front and back is because of the loading system.

rifraf

Aero spokes are useless?
Perhaps you'd expand on what your basing your opinion on?

Very happy with my Son28/Rohloff combo with Sapim CX-Rays and 36H Dyad rims thank you very much.

A few thousand kms now, almost all of it heavily laden touring with perhaps a quarter off road conditions and plenty with the addition of a trailer.
No issues

I took my wheels in to be checked recently as I've a extended tour coming up.
No adjustment of spokes needed was the verdict from a wheel builder who was not the person who built up the wheels much to his chagrin.

This is my second touring wheel build using CX-Rays and Dyad extrusion
.
My first was an extended across Australia tour starting in Mudgee New South Wales, taking in a fair bit of South Australia and finishing in Western Australia towing a Carry Freedom Trailer as well as panniers on a Moulton APB (406 Aeroheats).
Again no issue with the wheels despite the "useless" spokes
Happy to recommend wheelbuilder.com in California if like most seem to be in here, your in the States.

robert schlatte

I bought a "Quality Wheel" online from AE Bikes in Michigan. It is a Velocity Dyad rim. Deore LX hub, 36 hole, straight gauge spokes. It's machine built so it was cheaper than if hand built. I checked the tension of the spokes and it was remarkable pretty even. I have ridden it on a couple of long multi day tours with zero issues. You might go this route.

rifraf

Your personal experience seems to suggest this is unlikely.
Mine too.
Perhaps you could expand on "problems needing a complete wheel replacement"?

rifraf

Please explain/expand your view

jkmartin

I have Open Pros with Ultegra hubs on my road bike and they are a fine wheel. I would not consider them for loaded touring, but pulling a trailer you'll probably be fine. I would still want at least 32 spokes and prefer 36. The Mavic website says the rim will only fit up to a 28mm tire so if your frame will accept bigger you may want to go with something like a Mavic A719 with XT hub.

The shop's price seems fair.

mev

When I look at risk planning, I take into account both the likelihood and the consequences of something occurring. It sounds like our experiences are in agreement on likelihood - though it also sounds like you have individual Aero spokes: https://www.wheelbuilder.com/images/D...blk_250-02.jpg and I have an integrated Aerospoke wheel: https://www.citygrounds.com/prodimages/900-DEFAULT-l.jpg

When it comes to consequences, I've been touring where some less than likely events have happened - for example on two different trips in college, I had a fellow rider cycle into a stationary object [once a bollard, once a parked car]. The metal wheeled rim transferred shock to the frame and she was able to continue only because we traded out that frame for a whole new bike donated to her [a different story]. The aluminum wheeled rim ended up with severely mangled rim we could "fix" well enough to cycle a few miles where we got a new rim respoked. On a different occasion, on a Ride the Rockies ride, I saw a rather spectacular failure of a carbon fiber fork after rider came into impact with stationary object [this time another rider].

So I don't know exact consequences of failure in a composite together integrated wheel, that also has its own special hub and potentially bringing in other components as well - but past experience suggests if it were to fail (however unlikely), then I might be looking at replacing the entire integrated setup rather than just a part [hub, rim, spokes,...] and hence my comment.

Lower probability/higher consequence risks are tougher to plan for - and I'm not always 100% consistent. Some low likelihood risks I'll just ignore. In some other cases such as using 48 spoke wheels, I've accepted a higher consequence of difficulty in replacing the rim vs. a lower likelihood of rim failure [and had such a failure in NZ where I did replace entire rim/hub/spoke when just the hub component failed and switched to 36-spoke wheel]. Some of that is also based on having three separate 36-spoke wheels fail when cycling across Canada.

For my aerospoke wheels since I already have them, I also wouldn't hesitate to use them to cycle across US or most developed countries with reasonable roads. I probably wouldn't take that bike the length of the Great Divide Mountain bike route - and probably not in some parts of the developing world. If I had a choice on outfitting a new bike just for crossing the US, I would probably also shy away from them, which was also how I replied in original comment.