rifraf

Thanks heaps for such a detailed and readable response.
The links were super helpful (and accurate)
I hadn't initially understood your wheels were of an integrated Aerospoke construction.
In fact I was unfamiliar with the idea, let alone the existence of your wheel type.
I vaguely remember "Mags" being the vernacular or colloquialism of the day for wheels visually similar at a glance.
Certainly little in common with the "Mags" which were on BMX "Specials" back in the days of my youth.
Yours are more Aerospace with regards my out of date thinking.
Thank you for the education.

MassiveD

I have looked at the aerospoke wheel a few times, I would certainly run those on a touring bike, the main thing that dissuaded me is that the rims can't be replaced as far as I know,since I use rim brakes, that could be a problem. The secondary thing is the weirdness factor. They look cool, but on touring looking as normal as possible is advantageous. I used to have a touring recumbent, and got far too much attention a lot of it pretty negative.

LeeG

LoneWolf is on a budget, touring with limited funds and just needs wheels. Bladed spokes are expensive and used more often in low spoke count wheels which LoneWolf has experienced breaking in what appears to have been an unloaded bike. So LoneWolfs needs will be better met with more spokes and lower cost components.

fietsbob

QBP in MN has an In house wheel building Boiler room (IDK How many Truing stand Cubicles they Have)

they are a importer distributor, so they get all the parts at way below retail .

so another source .. Your Local Shop can Order wheels Built up using any component combination in their Massive warehouses.

then have them shipped to Your Local Shop.

LeeG

You left out your weight. If you're already breaking rear spokes they must have been marginally built or you're on the heavy side for Treks low spoke count production wheels. If you're on the heavy side just get a decent low cost 36spoke rear road wheel.

Given your need for economy that can be achieved with basic machine production wheel set and paying for the shop to go over the wheels. There are also very decent production handmade wheels like those made by Quality Bike Products.

LeeG

It is ok to have a rear wheel built for the intended use. It could be "nicer", lighter and more expensive but not built for the intended use. It could be cheaper, plain and moderate weight and built for the intended use. 36 spokes on the rear is a good cheap way to ensure durability for touring and straight 14g spokes are a good cheap way to ensure a bit more lateral stiffness which may or may not matter with the trailer.

Towing 40-50 lbs erases any theoretical benefits to aero wheels and your budget pretty much eliminates them for affordability when building up wheels. Your experience shows that production aero wheels aren't up to your unloaded riding needs so you're not going to get the durability you seek with low cost replacement aero wheels.

MassiveD

You (op) could do all the spokes straight 14, except the non-drive side rear 14 butted . The argument goes that mixed spokes make a stronger rear wheel, and since straight spokes up front, are a non-issue, you can get almost everything you want without any downside at all, on the semi cheap. But you need wheelsmith spokes ideally. Or you could buy a set of quality straight spoke wheels, and 18 butted spokes, switch them in one at a time on the non-drive side.

Another option is to go 15/14 in the back with 14 in front, all straight (or butted if you want) which would also be a highly superior format.

rifraf

Thank you

ksisler

OP; From your current experience of 4 broken spokes.... clearly the lack was in a quality job of tightening and tensioning on the original build. This was followed by a fail to apply the same to the wheel after the first spoke broke, then after the second spoke broke, then the third, then the forth.

If you are to have success, it will be important to not make these same 4 mistakes again.

So start with a good wheel, professionally built, tightened and tensioned. If that is done, then most any set of reasonable components will be at least adequate and give good life. Moving most of your weight to a BOB instead of panniers is an excellent move. Highly recommended.

When selecting the new wheel build, you will be faced with a lot of small decisions. At each point, consider selecting the stronger/slightly heavier rim, select the next higher spoke count, select the next wider rim, select the slightly wider tire, etc. But avoid extremes and avoid components that come with crazy attributes as great marketing buzz-words don't build a good wheel.

I don't know the frame you have, but it may severely limit the wheel/tire width if it is not a dedicated touring frame. The BOB will aid your cause there. If the frame is one of silly ones that will only fit a 25mm or 28mm tire width, then it may be better to park it and include a different touring frame in the effort. You can get a touring frame for not much money. Such as the Nashbar Touring frame and fork at under $150. I have a lot of miles on one and it tours well even with really heavy loads (60+ pounds in the panniers with 275 pound, 6 foot 5 inch rider, 180mm cranks, etc.) and will accept wide tires (such as the 43mm Pasela's) and fenders with room to spare.

Hope that helps.
/K

MassiveD

That is a lot of good advice, in spirit. The thing is I have been as high as 275, plus full load, on regular touring rims, straight spokes, and 36 holes. Never a problem. So I think the best advice was the bit about getting well built rims. Getting a pro build is not sufficient. A lot of pros don't know anything. I have got terrible advice at many stores. Either go with someone like Peter White, or a store that has a shop that deals with tourists, or couriers and builds for strength. Another option is to do the wheel prep yourself. buy some machine wheels and do the final work yourself. There are about 5 stress relieving routines, I run them all, but you have to be able to true a wheel after they are done. Only one of the routines is really important, but you might as well do them all. That is all it takes.

Fat rims are not necessarily stronger, the part that blows is the eyelet. First of all, some of the wider touringish popular rims are not the best quality; second, making the segment that is where the spoke is located wider makes a stronger rim, but not for the weight expended, and can weaken the nipple bed. All you need is a standard 24 wide, 22 deep rim, and some of the best rims were as narrow as 20mm. These will take tires up to 35 mm and beyond. My favourite rims are the MA3 bontrager made in 36 hole for MTBs. They are barely 20 mm wide. Not made any more.

Personally I don't think the Bob trailer is a core piece of gear. I would spend the money elsewhere, but if you have one, it will be just fine. Be sure to do some test runs so you can learn how it handles, it can steer the bike, so learn it's peculiarities before you are sandwiched between motor homes.

L0NE_W0LF

You bring up a good point - I am not sure what is the max width of tire my frame can handle. It is a Trek SL 1200 Alpha Aluminum frame. Right now I ride with 25mm tires and my wheel set (which SUCKS) are the Shimano WH-R501.

Any idea what size my frame can handle?

LeeG

How much do you weigh? Your wheels are 20 and 24 spoke. They're probably marginal as racing wheels without regular maintenance and obviously inadequate so far. If you're over 175lbs just get the most affordable 36 spoke rear wheel and any 32 or 36 spoke front wheel that is 3 cross. This isn't rocket science and it doesn't cost a lot of money.

ksisler

Lone_Wolf; Following you tire question vice the original wheel threading.

No matter what any brochure says, the way to find out is to flip the bike over on his back and get busy measuring it. Apologies in advance to those readers owning a set of inside calipers (for those that do, the below procedural can easily be adapted).

Get a scrap of cardboard or a 3" x 5" card. Put in a wheel (preferably with a tire on it), center it and tighten the quick release. Put a bit of masking tape on one chain stay and make a mark on the tape that at the widest part of the tire. Remove the wheel. Now cut a bit of the card that looks like it will fit between the chain stays at about the same place as the center of the tire sidewalls would be at (where you marked it). Try it. If it is too wide, trim a bit off and try again until you get a fit. If you cut it too small, just start over with a another bit of card. When you have it right, measure the card and see how many millimeters of total width the frame would allow. Write that number down. Note that you will want a good bit of free space on each side of the tire to allow the tire to still clear if you get a bend in the wheel or a broken spoke.

Now put the wheel back in the frame as above. Try to measure how much room there is between the top of a tire and the bridge between the chain stays. This sets the upper limit on how tall the tire can be when inflated. Think about fenders since you are about touring...you probably want them and would want to have them installed before you make this measurement as their mount can suck up a lot of tire space. Then shooting along the side of the tire, measure from the edge of the rim to the bridge and record that measurement also.

Repeat all of the above efforts to measure the similar space up at the brake bridge on the seat stays.

Make a "data table" on a piece of paper or card stock to collect your measurements and have some extra columns to put in any published tire measurements you can find online or that you measure at a LBS. Use the date to start your tire search. Don't be surprised if you end up with a set of tires or two sets that should fit, but just don't for some reason. Keep at it until you find the ones that fit well. Then try riding them for a month or two. Change to another if you need to. When you find the one that fits and rides well, buy two sets (about 6 tires and tubes). Fold the spare set and put then in a big zip lock bag, add a desiccant packet or two, vacuum out all the air you can, inject the bag with nitrogen from a one of those instant inflation kits and zip it closed. Put the zip lock bag in a paper grocery bag, label it and put it away. Your spare set of tires should still be in perfect condition up to 25 years from now. If after a year of riding the tire on the specific bike, assess where you are at. If it still rocks, then buy another set or two of tires/tubes and bag them up also. Tires are routinely discontinued by the OEM's and you really don't want to go through all that work again if avoidable. Happiness is in the riding not in the hair pulling to find something that fits...IMHO.

Note, I recently popped out a pair of Specialized brand of 27" x 1 3/8" tires/tubes that I bagged up in May 1975. They looked and rode like new and allowed me to sell off an excess tandem (passed along 2 extra sets of spare 27" tires) and thus avoided the long tiresome discussion about 27" vs 700C wheels. Requesting please that this thread not evolve into rants about best wheel diameter...

Hope that helps. Apologies for being a bit long winded (again)

/K

Ron Harry

Lot of good info this thread; but no one mentions prices/costs.
I know that is MY first consideration. Would love a rivendale build or some expert wheel builder. PRICE is everything; Must start with price. Then I can eliminate 99% of all this 'good info' and go right to the bargain basement [saving a lot of time].
Wheels can cost more than the whole bike [if one does not shop]. uh...a lot more.

johnplf

What do people think about 36h Mavic Open Pros laced to Ultegra hubs?

Mr IGH

Open Pros are expensive and an ancient design, there are much better rims these days. And since this is the touring sub-forum, how crazy can one be to use Open Pros for a touring bike? I don't care how many spokes you have, the Open Pro's spoke track is too thin because Mavic wasted too much material in the sidewalls. Look at some Stans or SunRingle, 32 or 36 hole and 2.0 DTs. Don't fall for the myth about butted spokes, any mechanical engineer knows better....

fietsbob

you doing fully supported or credit card touring on a Road bike?

CR 18 & 105 is cheaper and more than adequate..

johnplf

Ive had this combo on my light touring bike for a short time. i usually dont carry more than about 40lbs with rear and front racks. i weigh about 170. I was mainly curious to see if others had issues with the rims at all.