keval

Greetings.
I'm in the market for a good touring bike, and see that occasional examples of the Miyata 1000, Trek 720, and other iconic bikes appear on the market fairly frequently. I'm also a big fan of Rivendell and other high-end bike firms and am considering a new Atlantis or Hunqapillar. Question is this: have touring bikes evolved so much since the mid- to late 80s (when the Miyatas and Treks were built) to justify the significantly higher costs of a Riv or other new bike? Does anyone on this forum actually tour with a Miyata or old Trek, or are these of value only to bike collectors?
Thanks,
Kevin

bradtx

Kevin, While the Miyata and Trek maybe more oriented to the C&V collector, they would still be a good touring bike even though there's been an evolution to more robust designs to the point that expedition level touring bikes are the norm. Even more recently there has been movement to a lighter duty touring bike that is more or less labeled as an adventure bike.

Modern off the shelf touring bikes I consider as above average are the Trek 520, Raleigh Sojourn and the Novara Randonee. A bike that seems to always deliver more than it should is the Windsor Tourist from Bikes Direct. The Bianche Volpe is a stellar example of a lighter duty touring bike.

Brad

bikemig 

I own a Trek 720 and I've toured extensively on it. Great bike. That said if I were in the market for a touring bike, I'd probably go with a new bike. The older bike has cachet; the newer one will be a little easier finding parts for and perhaps a little better for the intended job (you should be able to fit a bit fatter tire on a newer touring bike than a vintage one). Not a big difference though as touring bikes have not changed as much as have say racing bikes.

If you want a really versatile vintage touring bike, you might want to think about converting a top end vintage mtb. My 1988 specialized stumpjumper comp is an ace commuter and has pretty good geometry for touring. It also has no problems with fat cushy tires and fenders:

tarwheel 

I searched for vintage touring bike such as the Miyata 1000 and comparable Lotus, Univega, Panasonic, etc. models for a long time. I was never successful finding a decent one in my size for a fair price. I'm sure they're out there, but I didn't find one in several years of searching on eBay, Craigslist and various forums. I finally ended up buying a new Bob Jackson World Tour about 5 years ago, and more recently a Soma Saga. Both were priced very reasonably for brand new frames (BJ $600, Soma $500) and fit me very well. Bob Jackson will paint their frames just about any color imaginable and add custom finish details for extra money. The Soma only comes in two colors, but fortunately I like those colors.

If you enjoy the thrill of the hunt and restoring an older frame, keep looking. However, if you want a highly capable touring bike with more modern components, there are a lot of great options -- many of them for very reasonable prices. In addition to the BJ and Soma, Surly, Jamis, Kona and Trek sell touring bikes for very reasonable prices.

fietsbob

Some older frames were made before the standards settled on what the components, easily replaced Now, Use .

Builders in Japan then became to expensive , so production moved to further south asia.

And for some tour loads the 1" top tube is not very stiff, so whole bike sways with every pedal stroke ..

the change to 9/8" top tubes; and inch and a Quarter down tubes, helped .

80s expedition made in Japan, out of steel was like that .. now the label is applied to a different type. ..

keval

Thanks for the input.
I love older bikes, and have a lead into a Miyata 1000 in what seems to be excellent (but not updated) condition. The owner wants $800 for it, but I could probably talk him down a bit.
I'm also considering a new Atlantis from Rivendell, or a new Specialized Expedition from Lighthouse Cycles. These frames are roughly three times the cost of the entire Miyata, but they're new, have excellent reputations and, frankly, are lovely bikes.
I'm assuming that the Miyata parts are all pretty much standardized, i.e. the BBs, handlebar stems, etc. are all more or less compatible with modern, findable components. If this isn't the case, then the Miyata's not really an option.
Decisions, decisions...
Kevin

qclabrat

Kevin,
if you have the means, based on a Rivendell being an option

you should seriously consider custom, the 1000 and 720 and other noted off the rack bikes are all great options

I moved from a 1000 to a Bruce Gordon Rock n' Road a few years back and haven't regretted the extra expense

bradtx

There shouldn't be much trouble finding and fitting updated items for the drive train and fit.

Brad

hueyhoolihan

i'm not sure what you meant there, but if you mean the original parts on an early 80's Miyata will be pretty much standard with what bikes have now, then you may be sorely disappointed.

most all bearings on all quality bikes are now cartridge bearings. many frames have BB shells that won't even accommodate a threaded cartridge BB let alone a cup and ball BB. handlebar clamps are universally larger. headsets aren't even close to being compatible and neither are modern cranks and even in some cases chainrings. rear hubs are now wider, spoke counts are less, and some spokes for modern wheels are very difficult to find anywhere but on the web. i have yet to mention cog count and shifting technology which i where most of the differences lie.

IMO, unless you are really into vintage bikes, it might be best to buy a new one. if money is an issue, i'd get one from BD in shimano 106 that could fit the widest tire i planned on using and had rack mounts on back, and be done with it. good luck.

mstateglfr 

You can absolutely find high quality replacement parts for a Miyata 1000.
Between ebay, amazon, bike shops, local co-op, and the general internet- there is more than enough good and perfect condition stock.

Need a chainring?- they are more than plentiful and available all over the internet in the BCD and tooth count you need.
Need an entirely new crankset?- all over the internet with ebay leading the way. New old stock and used- your choice.
Handlebars are everywhere and in the measurements you want.
Bottom brackets are hardly something to stop you from getting an 80s bike- they are simple to maintain and also to replace if needed.
Brake calipers, pads, levers, bar end shifters, downtube shifters, derailleurs, hubs, headsets, stems, seatposts, freewheels/cassettes- its all available still in the sizes you need.



I just finished building up a 1980 Schwinn Voyageur 11.8 and couldn’t be happier with the outcome. I actually switched out most of the bike because I really got into personalizing it.
New drop bars, stem, triple crankset, barcon shifters, front derailleur, freewheel(was cassette), hubs, spokes, rims, tires, brake pads, and rear derailleur.
The bike would have worked great had I just cleaned the original parts, but I wanted to turn it into a triple so I could use it for some longer touring.
Everything I acquired was used, except the rims, spokes, and pads. Its all in excellent shape. I could have gotten all of it new, it would have just cost more and/or been different brands. I wanted to keep it period correct and went with full SunTour/Diacompe.

There is just so much available that fits vintage and for decent pricing when compared to the latest and newest in the same category.
Go have fun changing out what you need/want and get riding!

bikemig 

+ 1 on post no. 10, minus half a point on post no. 9. Yeah there are a lot of new parts that won't work on old touring bikes (that's the point of post no. 9) but so what? There are plenty of high quality parts that will work great on an old touring bike. You can spread the rear triangle if you want to go 8-9-10 speed on the back. Threaded BBs and cranks are pretty easy to find. Quality quill stems and h'bars are easy enough to find (nitto is still widely available) and quill stems make it a bit easier to get the right handlebar height. New cantilevers might present a bit of an issue since the posts are narrower on old bikes than new ones.

Everything else being equal, I'd probably get a new touring bike over fixing up an old one mainly because I'd like to run a bit fatter tire than you can with most old touring bikes.

mstateglfr 

Since you are looking at Riv bikes, I am guessing budget isn't the driving concern, but Ill still toss out a couple of less costly options.

- Another poster already mention the Windsor Tourist- a friend had one and it was more than capable from what I saw. It went on plenty of multi-day tours and I never heard a single complaint about the bike.
- The Motobecane Gran Turismo has been one that I think would be a very nice bike for the money as its under $600. The components are overall solid, it has bar end indexed shifting, and is full cro-mo with lots of mounting spots.
- A touring frame and steel fork from Nashbar may be what you want as it would allow for you to build up exactly what you want and still have a solid steel frame. The frame and fork are inexpensive and would allow for more money to go towards the exact wheels you want(spoke count, hub, etc), and not force you into sticking with one model line across the bike. Mix and match components to your liking and budget- could be the best way to go.


Of course these are all if you don't go vintage- they would at least preserve the general geometry and frame material.

fietsbob

just the freewheel is superseded by the freehub/cassette & no 126 axle stuf is made in the latest kit.

built up a touring wheel around a Phil wood freewheel hub.. it removed the 1 weakness freewheel hubs had ... weak axles .

Being unbendably strong , it worked fine for decades .. Phils New ones are better . You can do field service Bearing replacements if Needed.

palu

Those vintage bikes are beautiful. I've got an '83 Trek myself. Nice bikes.

That said, if I were to buy a touring bike today, I'd get a Long Haul Trucker, Novara, etc. Brand new components is the biggest reason. The frames on those older bikes are pretty stout, but risk is always with the components breaking down. The price isn't far off from those either. Vintage collectors keep the prices high on those. You can get a Long Haul Trucker for as low as $1k at some shops.

3speed

I too would definitely go with a new bike vs. a vintage for touring, money not being an issue. I also wouldn't go Riv, though. If you're dropping that kind of money, just go ahead and get a custom, or save a little money and get just as good of a bike elsewhere. I know some people love them, and rightfully so since they seem like nice bikes, but I see Riv as a terrible value. You can get an equally nice bike for less money. Put in your research time and I think you too will find other options that suit your needs and are just as nice, or nicer, for your money.

hyakuyen

If you buy a complete bike and ride it a lot you'll probably eventually end up wanting to update most things on it, which could be expensive depending on which route you take. A few years ago I got a lightly used mid-80s Miyata 1000 for under $300. Wanting to keep the original wheels, I swapped out the 5s freewheel for a (new) 7s, the downtube shifters for 7s brifters, both FD and RD for modern equivalents, all three chainrings, stem and bars. Also, there are a few models of mid-90s MTB cantis which work very well on '80s era narrow spaced canti posts.

I've been on a few fully loaded tours on it and it's great, but there's no doubt that some of the modern high-end oversize tubesets, such as TT OX, or Reynolds 725 etc, give a more stable ride at a similar weight. But for me the difference is not really that significant, I just like the retro look and feel of the bike.

Buying frame and fork only and sourcing cheap, modern, lightly used components and doing the work yourself would be the best of both worlds. Well worth it I reckon.

LeeG

Let's see, $4000 new bike or $800 30 yr old bike with loveliness a main criteria. I see the problem choosing as aesthetics of desire are somewhat independent of function.

you don't mention your size but it would determine frame type on Hunquapillar. I really don't see the need for multiple tubes when larger diameter satisfies the need for frame stiffness.

i wouldn't consider an old touring bike unless you're light, carrying a light load and LIKE building things up and have the time to do so.

the problem I see is you haven't picked a type of bike , ie. touring road bike or touring fat tire bike w rough road capabilities or load carrying needs. Once you do that the choosing gets better whether it's a rebuilt old bike, good value production or high end loveliness. Go back to the beginning, what will the bike be used for 80% of the time? Good touring bikes can be found for $500 tp $5000 but that doesn't mean it's optimum for your use.

shipwreck

Just wanted to jump in and say that this thread has some of the best thoughts and feedback on choosing a vintage touring bike or a new tourer that I have, I think, ever read.

Even post #9 has some points, in that no, you wont be able to run certain newer components. And if those components, after your research, are what you think you may want as opposed to a quill stem, Square taper BB, and more limited six to seven speed rear end, then you should go with a newer bike.

I own a 1000 that I am fixing up for bike path riding for my father, its to small for me, but I did ride it on a couple long tours with mostly original components, my record fully loaded day of 167 miles over a mountain range was done in it.(its a 54, I ride a 62!) My thoughts are that if you are a heavier rider, go new. The frame has enough flex that it caused some chain rub on the derailleur on steep out of the saddle efforts. But it was a rock solid descender, stable with no wobbles with four pannier.

Replacement parts are obtainable, new or old, and if its the look you want, get it.

As a person who tours on old bikes, I often recommend when asked that a person gets a new bike instead of starting the vintage obsession. I have several crates of older parts, frames, wheels, it takes up a lot of room(which I have and hey, its my hobby). A new bike will have less of that kind of baggage, in that its going to be easier to just order what you need for upgrade or replacement, less experience, extensive research, and sometimes guesswork involved. Also fitting, which can be hopefully done at a shop, is better than trying to find the right sized frame, then dialing in the stem, seatpost, even crank length.
For example, I'm also working on a Cannondale SR500 for my father(I don't know which style bike he will like better, so getting two ready). Locating the proper bigger freewheel that matches the indexing of the Suntour system(not made for a long time), the cable guides need to be re-attached, I replaced the broken rear axle(a cassette wheel on a modern wheelset is stronger)and had to find the proper length for that job. Most of its rebuildable, and as its fun for me worth the effort.

Bottom line, In my seldom given opinion, if your new to touring, get a newer reasonably(for your budget)priced tourer, and then if you want an older bike just keep your eyes open and if you find one you want to work on go for it.

Adding, that I have an incredibly awesome vintagey tourer, a custom frame that was never assembled when I got it. Its a 1990 frame, and its got some parts issues, such as the Canti studs are only a 1.5CM drop from the center of the rim, which I dealt with with some difficulty, it only takes a 32mm tire, not an issue for me. I would have placed some of the brazeons differently, but these are all things that are dwarfed by the ride itself, and the look, so for me its worth it.

surfjimc

I tour on and commute daily on an early 80's Specialized Expedition. I bought it in bad shape on ebay for $125 after over a year of searching. In theory, it is the exact same frame as the Miyata 1000. I have upgraded every part except the stem to modern, fairly high end components, and absolutely love it. I have all the original parts boxed up for later when it is time to put it back to stock. The only issues that have come up are, first the front brakes. As stated in an earlier post, the posts are mounted a bit closer together. I have wide rims and that caused some fit issues, it was finally fixed with some pliers and a lot of time with a Dremel. The other thing that has come up is the tail wagging the dog. It has happened only a few times, but it is a large frame (64cm) and it has carried some heavy loads that lead to the wiggle. It's never lasted long, but it has happened. Newer frames with different tubing sizes have solved that problem.

B. Carfree

I would definitely go with a vintage Trek and upgrade the components as needed/wanted. However, I am completely biased since my main touring rig is an '82 720 (with modern components), my wife's main touring bike is an '84 720, her sister's is an 85 620, and I've got two other Treks from the '70s awaiting my attention. I find that these bikes just plain ride better than the newer stuff. They flex enough to "plane" (give back power during the low-power portion of the the pedal stroke) without being unwieldy under load. I find too many of the modern frames to have a dead feel from being overbuilt. YMMV.

The only real downside is the brakes. I've settled for some simple modern side pulls that work very well but do restrict the tire width I can run. (My frame is from before they were putting cantilevers on.) My wife has the crappy cantilever brakes that just don't have the stopping power that modern incarnations have. We could always have a frame builder redo the posts for a more modern brake, and we would do that, except that she is now so much happier touring on one of our tandems that we just haven't bothered.

surfjimc

+1
I do love the ride of my Expedition.

robert schlatte

I have a 1980 Schwinn Voyageur which I purchased new. I replaced all the components with the exception of the stem and seatpost. I upgraded it with modern 700 wheels and drivetrain. It has performed flawlessly on several tours. By todays standards, it would be classified as a "sport tourer."


A couple years ago I built up a new Soma Saga touring bike. The saga is a sturdier frame and is purpose built to be a loaded tourer. When loaded the Saga is rock solid compared to the Schwinn. While I am really fond on my Schwinn, I would not go back. To the OP, it really depends on what you are in the market for. If you want a purpose touring bike for loaded touring buy a new one suited for the purpose. If you want a classic, vintage style, 80's sport touring that you can use for loaded touring, go that route.

bike_forever

Great looking and practical touring/commuter setup! The possibilities are endless with vintage steel ATBs... I want to start working on my old Trek 970 to have it ready for this spring!