mshattuck

We've decided to outfit the current bikes we have b/c of budget and thus we're wondering if pedals are something that should be updated. We're currently just using the stock resin pedals that came with the bikes. They don't have any problems. But does anyone think that we should upgrade to metal pedals, or anything like that.

I'm just not sure about going the clipless route as I don't know how we'd get used to it. Want a no fuss sort of experience, know what I mean?

Also should add that I wear size 13-14 shoes (depending on brand). Don't know if that could cause problems if getting into the clipless systems.

Thanks!

marmotte

Hi mshattuck!
I understand you right: you got a pedal system without clips or any other fixing system?
If it is so: dont't fear to get used to an other system.
Advantage:
- using clipless systems you can only push, using clips you can pull while climbing.
- You'll have a better contact to your bike (which means: you can feel it better and you can feel better what the road surface is all about)

But it's expensive: shoes ~ 70 € / $ , clip pedals ~ 50 € / $

billa

Rowan

Go with what you are happy with. You are curious (I really like that word) about clipless. If you are touring, you will need an MTB-type shoe with a recessed cleat. The options for pedals and cleats range from Shimano SPDs through to Time Atacs and Eggbeaters. In between there are small pedals (the Eggbeaters are tiny) and MTB pedals with wide platforms.

Personally, I use Time Atac MTB platform pedals. I like the float the Atac system permits, although the brass cleats tend to wear a little more quickly. The platform also helps control a problem I have with pronation of the right foot.

In your case, if you do decide to go the clipless route, Shimano makes a platform pedal that has a clip-in mechanism on one side, and none on the other. It means you can get used to riding clipless when you feel like it. Otherwise you ride as you normally would -- on an ordinary platform. Others undoubtedly have ready access to links showing the style of pedal.

One of the problems with most plastic pedals I have seen is that their bearings aren't sealed, and they eventually give up the ghost. I think most of the good quality clipless pedals have relatively sealed bearings. I know I have more than 20,000km on my Atacs with nary a problem.

Shoes size generally doesn't have an influence on going to clipless. However, you might need to sort through various brands depending on how *wide* your feet are. Some shoes, like helmets, are a bit narrow. A slightly larger size means you can wear thicker woollen socks if you are touring in cool conditions.

In addition, you don't need to buy Shimano shoes to go with Shimano clipless pedals. One of the major problems that can arise with any shoe, but seemingly more so with clipless, is hotfoot, or Morton's neuroma, where the small group of bones in the ball of the foot -- the metatarsals -- are squeezed together. This blocks the nerve and causes a sensation initially of heat, then numbness in the toes and sole.

I had serious problems in this area and opted eventually for a pair of Specialized Taho shoes. Specialized is the only maker of shoes, as far as I know, that incorporates a metatarsal button in the sole insert to help keep the small bones spread apart and stops them from squashing the nerve trunk.

Don't think you have to change to clipless. I did a lot of riding with just clips and straps. I sometimes still do. The advantage is, depending on your style of touring, and what you do while touring, you can wear ordinary shoes, reasonably stiff-soled sports shoes or hiking boots.

wheelin

I beg your pardon, marmotte. You can pull with both the clip and the clipless, which you can't do with normal p0edal. The clip is a toe clip, usually with strap to lock your foot to the pedal. Clipless system is obviously without a clip. You need special cleat attached to your riding shoe to lock it to your pedal. SPD is just an example.

mshattuck

That's very helpful info. I'll look into the options you suggested to consider.

To be clear, right now the wife and I are both using our standard platform pedals...and (exactly Rowan) we're curious about whether or not it would be helpful for us to switch to either clips or clipless.

Do many people tour with platform pedals??

Rowan

I don't know personally of anyone who tours with platform pedals, but they are out there. Using them doesn't make you any less a touring cyclist. Just slightly inefficient.

One thing you might consider... your current pedals probably have existing holes for the reflectors. If you buy a pair of clips and straps each, you can fit them using those holes (the reflectors should just pop out) and get a feel for the increased efficiency of being able to push and pull while pedalling.

There truly is an increase in efficiency. You don't need the straps to be tight. Traditionally, you had to reach down to cinch them tight after starting to pedal, then reach down to uncinch them when coming to a stop. These days, you can keep them firm enough to give you efficiency gains, but loose enough for you to be able to withdraw your foot easily such as at traffic lights.

The problem with either a clips-and-strap or clipless system is getting into the habit of undoing your foot from the pedal.

I am a firm believer in graduated development. Try the clips and straps first (they're dirt cheap and usually can fit on plastic pedals). Use them for 12 months to get used to them. The advantage is... you don't need special shoes. You WILL need to practise getting into and out of them... sit astride the bike in a doorway, support yourself with both hands on the jambs, and put-in/pull-out of the pedals 50 times on each side. It's almost guaranteed, however, that you'll fall over a couple of times before you get totally in tune with them.

Then, if you feel the efficiency gains are worth it, graduate to clipless. In the meantime, you'll have time to look around, talk to others, and make a valued choice on exactly the system you want. You never know, you might not even think it worthwhile going to clipless.

The above is the route I followed. I am glad I went the clips-and-straps route first because it gave me the knowledge that I could get efficiency gains with ordinary shoes to ride in, and without spending more money.

capsicum

I mainly like clips or clipless because my foot won't accidentally slip off. I have scars from slipping off forward and having the pedal's sharp bits wack the back of my leg.
I do think you should at least ditch the resin for some metal pedals like bear claws or whatever they call them now $15-20 a pair and they will take a beating, my old resins broke nearly in half(not unridable but not good either). I have had a pair of bear claws on my MTB for over 7 years without lubing and they still turn quite nice.
Don't worry about unsealed bearings just lay the bike on its side and dribble some oil or other lube in there once in a while, it has kept my 1974 schwinn pedals going all these years. On the other hand my new crankbrothers pedals with sealed bearings are quite stiff turning compaired to my other pedals because of the seals and the heavy grease(I think I may flush them with a very light grease after they get broke in)

MichaelW

Plenty of people tour of platform pedals with toe clips.
I use MKS Sylvian double-sided touring pedals with metal toe clips. They are good value, reliable, fairly well sealed and easy to service.
Rivendell have the pedals with metal clips and leather straps, the most reliable combo.
Dont cinch the straps tight, this is a recipie for a spill or foot ache.

mshattuck

All great advice...thanks!

Does anyone have experience with the Shimano m324 combo pedals while touring? I like the idea of just using clips...but I'm wondering if I might as well just spend a few more $$$ up front and get a pedal that will support clips and clipless (whichever way I'm wanting to go).

Man...there's just too much to know when you really start trying to learn something!! Haha!

Magictofu

mshattuck, I am not sure my pedals are the shimano m324 (mine are about 10 years old and the model could have changed) but they look very similar. It worked fine with me except for the first long ride I did with them. At that time, I got terrible knee problems probably due from a bad adjustment and lack of fitness. What I like the best with these pedals is that you can use them with any shoe you like although it takes a bit of practice to flip them on the proper side at first. To be honest though, the plateform side is a bit tiny for my feet (extra wide 11) so I tend to stick to the clipless side as much as I can.

If you are short on money, I would not advise you to go clipless... it is a good investment but it is expensive. A good pedal with clips is a good alternative.

spanky4x4

I have a wide 12 and they pedals I found that I like alot are cheap($15) bmx platforms.
I have the same set on 2 differant bikes,one with cheap toe clips and one without. the pedals are wide enough to support my feet,and allow me to wear whatever shoe I need to. workboots,running shoes,skateboard shoes(my favorite). the ones I have are metal with sealed bearings made by mks for diamond back(local bike shop had them) nashbar has a similar set,with clips and reflectors for around $15-18 us

these are made by wellgo for nashbar and are only $14.95

I personnaly want to upgrade eventually to clipless,but for now,theses allow me to wear any type of shoe,anytime,anywhere. for cheap.

mshattuck

Since I live in Poland it's a real pain to net-shop and have things shipped. And while there are some shops here they don't care much by way of accessory variety. But after everything that's been said here, I think I'm going to go to the LBS and have a look-see at my options.

I think that at first, the route I'll take is to add some clips to what we've got and then just go from there.

Csson

Until two years ago I did all my riding (including a few long, 3000k+, tours) with plain platform pedals (no clips or anything). Then I got the M324 pedals and I have been very happy with them. I did get a very painful knee during the first week, probably due to riding too much too soon, but worked that out by riding some more.. I have a pair of Shimano mtb/touring shoes (not sure of the model) that has worked good as well, and are quite walkable as well; I have done walks of up to five kilometres with them without any problems.

mshattuck

Obviously I'm a newbie and as I've been searching different sites for info on shoes they always show either MTB or Road shoes. Is it wrong to assume that a "tourer" would want to have the MTB variety?

Thanks

Rowan

MTB are what you want. Road shoes are generally designed for a completely different cleat set-up and as such are very difficult to walk in -- including uphills while pushing a bike!

MTB shoes usually come with a cover over the slots and holes where the cleats go. The cover sort of completes the sole. If you choose, you can get the shoes first because of their stiff soles that improve the leverage on the pedals whether you remain with platforms or go to clips-and-straps, or go to clipless.

The cover can be unscrewed and discarded if you decide you want to move on to cleats and clipless pedals.

mshattuck

Any recommendations for shoes? Brands, models...?

Rowan

Bear in mind size issues, especially foot width. I like Specialized because of the metatarsal button, and the Taho is a nice shoe at a good price. The model seems reasonably wide. Oddly a much more expensive Specliazed MTB model felt too constrictive.

I've been through a series of Shimanos for everyday wear (commuting and work and stuff). They're fine, last reasonably well, and are reasonable value. For some reason, Shimano insists on changing colour and design specs every year, so if you find a good pair of shoes in their range, you really should buy two pairs.

You do need to consider the sole carefully. Even some MTB shoes have a sole design that is not totally practical for touring and walking and hiking (in particular).

Another option that may be considered are bike-specific sandals. I have almost been seduced by the testimonials of others on several occasions. Their supporters say they will never go back to shoes for touring (or general riding purposes). Their soles have recesses in them for cleats, too. Socks and things like Seal Skins (neoprene outer booties that are waterproof) can overcome cold and wet issues. Others here may add their recommendation. Shimano appear to make the best, from all reports. Maybe when I am 55 and the socks-and-sandals image fits better, I may break down and buy a pair.

mshattuck

Oh man...now you've done it. I thought I was coming closer to at least narrowing things down. Then you bring riding SANDALS into the mix??!! I'd never heard of them. Then after a quick Google, I see several people swearing by them.

Interesting thought as likely the wife and I will really only be touring during the warmer months anyway. So, maybe this would be the best bet??

I've got my work cut out for me! But this is so much fun!!

Anyone else care to chime in with their experience with shoes vs. sandals. I'm not too concerned with cold climate riding as the bikes will likely not get much use anyway in the cold.

mtnroads

If you have any kind of feet or knee problems, a clipless system may excacerbate the problem. The fit of the shoe, the insole, the relatively fixed position all can cause problems which can sometimes take time and money to sort out. I was fine with my old mtn bike shoes and SPD setup for years, until I switched to road shoes of a different brand and started having all kinds of problems with numbness in my feet, and pain, etc. Finally got it sorted out, but I keep my city bike setup with platform pedals now, use trail running shoes and it is comfortable and one less hassle to worry about when I just want to hop on the bike and go. I wouldn't hesitate to tour this way, and you would have the advantage of good shoes to hike in also.

mshattuck

ok, so here's the update...went to LBS this morning and SURPRISE...they had the shimano sandals (not my size) and can order the shimano m234s. So, I'll get a chance to check them out in person on Thursday. Not bad considering I figured they'd just say "huh" when I asked about those things.

So, we'll see. I appreciate all of the advice from everyone.

Rowan

If you do opt for Shimano pedals and clips, have the bike shop adjust the pedal for a loose clip in and out and perhaps as much float as is possible. As experience is gained, the pedal mechanism can be tightened. You may need to fiddle with position of the cleat, as has been mentioned earlier, to avoid knee problems. It's worth recognising that like everything else with fit on a bike, adjustment goes in small increments and over time before the optimum is found.

mshattuck

Thanks Rowan...I'll definitely ask them to do that.

gregw

"Also should add that I wear size 13-14 shoes (depending on brand). Don't know if that could cause problems if getting into the clipless systems."

I also wear a LARGE shoe size and there are very few cycling shoes that are big enough. The ones that I have found that run large are the low end Shimano mtb shoes (not their sandels) and the Lake brand in sandels. I tour in both and like them very much.

mshattuck

Hey Greg...so you've found that the Shimano sandals run too small for you?

How are the "Lakes" different from the Shimano sandals?

gregw

Yea, the largest size Shimano sandal was still too small for my boat sized feet, but the Lake fit just fine. Funny thing is, that the Lake sandal has a shimano sole, figure that one out.
Greg