woahdae

Yes, I know, yet another saddle-break-in post, but I think there's still value to add on the topic for thicker-leathered saddles.

TL;DR, let's brainstorm ways to break in a thick saddle in say < 1000mi, while minimizing the risk of damage a technique like dunking it in mink oil can do. This technique/advice doesn't seem to exist. I came up with a prototype technique at the end of this epic.

When it comes to a saddle like today's B17, the advice is relatively clear (IMO). Don't dunk it in mink oil, just "Proofide & Ride" and maybe get a bit wet/sweaty sometimes. It'll break in between 200mi and 1000mi, which isn't unreasonable, and it'll be more likely to keep its intended shape. Unless, of course, you like the super-hammock feel, in which case what are you waiting for?

However, when it comes to the thicker-leathered saddles such as the Brooks Pro or all Berthound saddles, there seems to be a good amount of people claiming the they may not be substantially broken in even after 3000mi.

I've read every result in the first 3 pages of google for searches like "breaking in a leather bike saddle," but there doesn't seem to be any consensus on what to do with saddles like a Brooks Pro, Berthound, etc if you just want to nudge the process along without going full-nuclear mink oil, or at the other end just riding and praying.

To develop a reasonable thick-leather technique, first, a summary of currently popular techniques (if this isn't your first rodeo, you can probably skip):

Soaking in an oil, such as mink oil.

For

• Sheldon Brown both recommends this, which is a good authority-based argument.

• Rando Richard also recommends this (among other techniques), which is another good authority-based argument.

• Many people reference this technique, or these authors (Sheldon in particular)

Against

• All saddle manufacturers recommend against it (usually in bold red all-caps)

• Sheldon includes a link to a study on museum leather preservation, which recommends never putting anything on leather unless carefully assessed by a preservation scientist. This has a large scientific appeal.

• Sheldon also includes a note from a reader recommending against it, as they found it to reduce the long-term support of the saddle. Not sure how authoritive this is, but it's a bit more of a logical argument as well.

Lon Haldeman's multi-step technique

Many people link to Lon and cite his authority on leather saddles, and Lon claims he's broken in as much as a saddle a day for other riders. Now, he's far more accomplished than most riders and so can speak with authority, but objectively this only supports the claim that leather saddles are capable of being broken in quickly by certain compounds or techniques, which nobody debates. The debate is whether this unacceptably reduces the life of the saddle and/or its subjective ability to remain "supportive" while also being supple.

He claims simply that you can get 40,000mi out of a saddle even after following this technique, but doesn't speak to the quality of the saddle during this period. Also, he mentions saddle tightening more than any other resource, claiming a saddle is best at 20,000 miles with 10 full turns of the tensioning bolt.

That's a lot! On my B17 I have 2,000 miles with 0 turns of the bolt! I tried a 1/4 and 1/2 turn and it was noticeably stiffer, but less
comfortable, so I backed it off. I can't imagine 10 turns! I only Proofide-ed my saddle once when purchased, and haven't touched it since (it doesn't look look or feel like it needs it).

"Proofide & Ride" (or Sno-Seal, or some such wax-based conditioner)

Everybody seems to agree this is the safest strategy if you're willing to wait it out. Maybe the mink oil proponents would claim mink oil to be just as good, only faster, but nobody has actually said this. To me, this implies that they might also think mink oil to be not as good a strategy, just that they're not willing to wait.

My Idea

So, I want to accelerate breaking in my new Berthound Aspin to < 1000mi without large risk of damage. This is a technique I think supports this goal, and which I've just started to employ:

• Since Proofide seems to be recognized as safer than mink oil (manufacturer recommended, in fact), cover in Proofide or similar. Optionally, bake at 100F to help the leather soak it in or to quickly apply multiple coats. Leather really soaks stuff in when it's warm. Not clear if multiple coats is desirable yet.

• Massage Proofide into the sit-bone area of the saddle with the ball of your wrist. This formed little stretch marks centered around the sitbone area, and my broken-in Brooks has much larger ones just like this. Hopefully this is a good thing.

• Apply Proofide to the underside of the saddle *just under the sitbone area*. I might consider doing this with mink oil, since that area isn't structural.

• Mist some water on the saddle before going for a ride. Seems like everybody agrees heat, rain & sweat help break it in, but it's rarely hot & I'm not often dripping sweat. I haven't tried this, but it seems to make sense.

So, any ideas on how to help along the break-in process without overdoing it?

fietsbob

TL;DR mine: saddle upsiide down in a warm oven .. a Tbs of Proofide , waxes melt and are absorbed , then re solidify at regular temperatures .
leather bottom is then a little waxy from the beeswax.

Then Ride the Bike ..1 is now 35 years old the other 25, both Brooks Professional.

hueyhoolihan

IME, any kind of oil or special breaking in on a leather saddle is detrimental to it, hastening sag.

ThermionicScott 

My plan is much simpler:

1) choose a Brooks saddle that feels good right out of the box when set up correctly -- no chafing from being too wide, no perineum intrusion from being too narrow/wrong shape.
2) take care of it indefinitely.

seeker333

True. Saddle will begin it's inevitable sag into a "hammock" sooner with treatments.

I dislike the Brooks Hammock; others love it. Brooks is prone to sag more so than other saddles due to it's tensioned leather design (lacking any support except at the ends). I much prefer firm saddles that resist sag. I've found conventional saddle designs with a plastic frame to have greater longevity than the tensioned leather design. Plus they are 200g lighter than a Brooks, which I acknowledge is not generally of great concern to tourists.

Tourist in MSN

Instead of mist, I soak it in cold water in the sink for maybe 15 to 30 seconds. Thats right, seconds, not minutes, not hours. The goal is to get the leather slightly moist, not wet. Then go for a ride of a few miles, stay close to home. Repeat a few times. To wet down the saddle, it is easier to leave the saddle on the seatpost and pull the seatpost out of teh frame, wrap some electrical tape around the seatpost a few mm above the frame for reference. If it is a really stuborn saddle, soak it maybe a minute, but do not get the leather too wet, just moist. The reason to stay close to home is that you do not want to risk over using it if it gets to where you want it. I would rather repeat this several times over several days than to risk damage by getting the leather too wet.

Once you get it maybe 70 or 80 percent of where you want it, dry it out and then and not before then apply the Proofhide. The Proofhide, if applied too early will hinder getting the leather moist, thus you only apply that when you think you are mostly there. Apply Proofhide to both top and bottom.

After you put on the Proofhide, put it in a plastic bag, close the bag, set the bag in the sun on a hot day to warm the Proofhide so it soaks in. I will pull it out of the bag a few times to try to rub the Proofhide into the leather with my fingers. Possibly repeat applying Proofhide a few times, depending on how well the leather accepts the Proofhide.

The method I described above can leave a few rough spots where your sit bones go, so if you are more concerned about looks than how it feels, do not use this method.

The bolt, I will tighten that if a saddle gets too much sag in it from being in the rain too much. But otherwise I leave the bolt alone. I have several Brooks saddles, most of them have never had the bolt adjusted. It is best to leave that alone.

I bought a nearly new saddle on Ebay that someone had already applied Proofhide, I think I put over 2,000 miles on it and it still is not where I want it, it does not get moist very easily so I have given up on using my system described above. I also have a used Brooks Pro (from a garage sale) that had been treated with something (maybe Proofhide, maybe something else) and it is on a bike indoors on my trainer, it also is not where I want it yet even though it has quite a few hours on it. This one also does not want to absorb any moisture, so I have given up on using my soak the leather system and instead have concluded that this one will need lots of hours.

Always wear black or other dark color pants or shorts. I bought some tan cycling pants - big mistake. I assumed that since the pants were going to be used on a honey color saddle that it would not discolor my pants, but it did.

Occasionally apply Proofhide again as a preservative to limit the amount of water that the saddle can absorb. I still use plastic bags at night to keep dew off of it and I put a cover over it on rainy days, I do not rely on the Proofhide to be the only water protectant.

BigAura

THE best thing, as recommended by Brooks, is just ride.

Machka 

Yep ... just ride it.


Remember ... you do not want a soft saddle. A soft saddle, is a damaged saddle. Your Brooks saddle should remain hard throughout it's life. What you are going for is your own personal sitbone divots. And what better way to get those than to just ride.

Rowan

Just a tiny little correction in an excellent post. Proofide.

I stumbled on another similar method in the road forum several years ago. Instead of dipping the entire saddle, concentrate on the sitbone area by soaking two face flannels in water, squeeze out a little, and stuff them on top of the rail against the underside of the saddle where the sitbones are meant to be. Leave for several hours. With the non-black saddles, the sitbone area will discolour to a darker colour, which is not an issue. Then go for a ride over an hour or two. Repeat as necessary.

The beauty of this method is that you don't have to take the saddle of the bike, but instead turn the whole bike upside down. Oversoaking might encourage the deformation for the sitbones to go too far. But by soaking the two relevant areas, the chances of affecting the supporting leather elsewhere is much reduced.

Yes, there will be wrinkles appear around the soaked area, but I've found they actually disappear in a very short time. I don't think I've applied Proofide to any of my saddles in a couple of years now... although most of the bikes have been in storage for at least one year of that period.

I've tried it on a couple of my more recent saddles, and it works. I am still, however, getting the Ti B17 saddles to do what I want.

Tourist in MSN

One more point. You are using your weight to shape the saddle. If you are a lightweight, you may need to be more patient.

Rowan's comment on applying the moisture to the sit bone spots from the underside is outstanding.

woahdae

The Berthound Aspin I'm "trying out" (with a strong intention to keep, got it from wallbike just in case), which is extremely similar to the Brooks Pro, fits this qualification superbly. Compared to my experience with the B17 (mirroring others') is that 1) for it to be comfortable in the perineal area the B17 requires extremely precise adjustment when my bars are just below the saddle and spending ~20% of the time in the drops, and 2) you are then limited to a round-back posture, which for me gets a bit... clostrauphobic... for lack of a better word. All other sports require a more neutral posture, and I'm not very flexible, so maybe that's why I'm looking to make round-back an option rather than a requirement.

Anyways, with the Aspin there's no sign of perineal discomfort, no chafing (same as B17), I get a wider range of postures, so I think it's going to be a winner... BUT...





THE SADDLE IS JUST SO EFFING HARD!!!

I know it's early in the season and I need some conditioning, but I rode it about 5 miles, and it almost feels like 50 relative to my broken-in Brooks.

There are no heuristics given by Brooks or Berthound as to how long this process takes, and it could be a whole year if it takes 3000mi+ as some have noted. Even touring at 40mi/day this would take 2 1/2 months. I respect that people serious about touring have the butt conditioning and regular mileage to make these thick saddles a viable choice, but they would be vastly more accessible if there was more consensus on a safe way to speed up the process a bit.

"There HAS to be a better way!"





Cooool, I like these ideas. I had thought of oiling just the sitbone area, but I like soaking the saddle, and I like soaking the sitbone area even better.

An aside, one nice aspect of the Berthound is you can take the leather off the saddle pretty quick with a power tool, so you're handling the leather aside from the frame. My light-duty drill has a torque limiter on it, so putting the screws back in is quick & safe as well.

Machka 

Yes ... it is hard. And it should remain hard for its entire life. It is a saddle designed to hold you up by your sitbones. It is not a jacket.

If you soften the saddle, it will sag and become useless.

If you use a break-in method other than "just ride" ... use it with caution and sparingly.

And incidentally, proofide is to protect the leather ... not soften the saddle.


If your saddle felt like 50 miles after 5, check the fit of your bicycle and the angle of your saddle. You'll want the nose tipped up a bit ... how much will depend on you. You may have to make several adjustments. If your leg lengths are different or your pelvis is a bit crooked, you'll want the nose of the saddle angled out one direction or the other ever-so-slightly.


After you have ridden with the saddle for a few weeks, and if it is not showing signs of breaking in ... then use Rowan's method. It works. But wait a bit and ride the saddle for a while because your saddle may break in on its own.

And the last thing you want is a soft saddle!

djb

Makes sense to me that selectively working on the sitbone area is the safest route. When I was breaking mine in a few years ago I ended up putting a bit of proofide on the sitbone spots to help speed up the process. Seemed intuitive to me to only help soften that specific area. My two brooks are still pretty firm and it makes sense for that to be the factor to a good long life without sagging.

I've recounted before meeting a young fellow last summer on a newish b17 maybe 2 or 3 months and it sagged like a son of a ***, had no idea how he ruined it (suspect he left it out in the rain a few times and rode on it completely soaked, he sort of admitted "a few times only" doing that. It was seriously hammocky and he couldn't believe how my b17 with so many more kms on it was still hard.
If I were to get another leather brooks I would put less proofide on it this time.

martianone

" However, when it comes to the thicker-leathered saddles such as the Brooks Pro or all Berthound saddles, there seems to be a good amount of people claiming the they may not be substantially broken in even after 3000mi."

Cannot say I agree with this statement. Have a "broken in and comfortable " Brooks pro. Also have Berthoud Aravis. The Aravis was very comfortable right out of the box and settled in quickly. More quickly than just about any other saddle.

I think good bike fit and taking the time to tweak the saddle fit to bike and posterior is one of the most important elements of break in. Then just ride the saddle and perform what ever maintenance is suggested by the maker.

Before mounting a new leather saddle on a bike, I do loosen the adjustment screw about 2 turns and lightly spritz underside of saddle with WD40, then retighten the adjustment screw

Doug64

Brooks Pro purchased in the 1970's. It was broken in by riding it, and using the following method:

Use Snowseal or Proofhide, applid by hand and heating it with with a hair dryer. Just keep rubbing it in as it is absorbed into the leather. I used a small childs baseball bat, about 18" long, and just lightly tapped the sit bone areas a couple of dozen times after each ride. I did this until it started feeling pretty good. I can't remember how long it took, but it was several weeks, riding daily. That saddle was ridden a lot, and the adjustment bolt was never tightened.

woahdae

OK, thanks, I think I'm going to just let the existing proofide I've put on it, plus maybe a couple light "rain/sweat" simulations via damp towel to the bottom and see how that goes for the first 200mi. Seems like I might be overly concerned based on some internet posts (which can be negatively biased b/c people just go on the internet to complain).

A picture's worth a thousand words, so I made a GIF. Quality is poor due to 100k gif limit, but maybe it gets the job done. My Brooks has 2000mi with nothing but one coat of Proofide, and seems great. In the GIF I'm squeezing the saddle as hard as I can in both cases.



I think protection is the primary use, but Brooks claims it also softens the leather:

Tourist in MSN

Yeah, keep them dry, or at least not too wet. I was on a group tour a few years ago. One guy put his bike upside down so he could check his tires for debris in the evening, and he left it upside down on the saddle and handlebars over night. Big thunderstorm that night. Next morning his Brooks saddle was soaking in a small pond. The pond had partially drained by the time I got my camera out.



Even if there is no chance for rain, I put plastic bag over my saddle at night to keep the dew off of it. And I use a cover when it is raining. I use fenders so I have almost no spray up from below onto the underside of the saddle. One tour where we had many consecutive days of soaking rain, my saddle developed a little bit of sag. I tightened the tension bolt a bit when I got home, but that is about the only time I adjust the tension bolt.

wvridgerider

Or just have a heavy rider break it in, maybe I will go in the "break in" buisness.

onbike 1939

Here's the thing.... before Brooks was sold to the present owner they recommended that Proofide was only to be used on the upper surface (the "rolled"side of the leather which prevents Proofide penetrating the leather). Proofide in this case is only used for a temporary waterproofing effect and cannot soften the leather. Brooks at this time discouraged the use of Proofide on the underside (the raw side) as repeated use of this softens the leather.

With the sale of Brooks to Selle the new owners started a sales drive in the USA which successfully sold these saddles as a niche product. The problem they encountered was that riders in the States usually rode without mudguards and their saddles were becoming wet with road spray and subsequently over-softening when ridden while wet. Brooks then issued advice recommending Proofide be used on the underside giving a waterproofing effect. Now application to the underside will provide some waterproofing it's true, but too much will over-soften the saddle making it useless.

I've been advocating the method quoted by Rowan for years as a way of creating the depressions needed but in mine I used thumb pressure on the required areas rather than riding the saddle. The leather when wet is extremely pliable and after drying is as hard as before.

A few points.

The use of any oil which is organic in nature (despite what Sheldon may say) should be discouraged as this encourages mould of various sorts. If softening/waterproofing is required then a leather conditioner is the best answer but only on the underside and only in moderation or over-softening will occur.

The weight of the rider is not a factor in creating the depressions in the leather. It is the prominence of the "sit-bones" which is the major factor.

Berthoud and similar saddles have leather too thick for the normal depressions to occur and these saddles work by the "Hammock" effect. Using the tension bolt to reduce tension while breaking-in will speed up the process.

While Brooks saddles may be used and be comfortable without ever using a conditioner, inevitably, given that the leather has had the natural oils leached out by the forming process, they will after many years become dry and crack (usually around the rivets).

I hope the above is of some help.

Dfrost 

Here's my Berthoud Aravis new (less than 100 miles):



And here it is one year and 3000 miles later:



It was never uncomfortable, and now it's fantastic! Most of the breaking in occurred in the first 300-500 miles (notably mostly winter riding, so less sweaty) with no special snake oils except as below. Since then it has stabilized very nicely, with no perceptible change in maybe 1500 miles.

When the saddle was brand new, I took advantage of the removable leather skin and applied the Berthoud-prescribed treatment inside and out (and the edges) with concurrence from the owner of Rene Herse Cycles from whom I bought the saddle. The Berthoud stuff is very similar to Obenauf's or SnoSeal. I just re-applied that treatment to both sides after a year, again taking the cover off. I loosened the tension bolt a few turns first, and retensioned it after assembly the exact same number of turns. BTW, the attachment screws do not require a power tool (mine are Torx T20, as I recall), and a drop of blue LockTite on each screw on reassembly keeps them from loosening in use, as some have complained.

ThermionicScott 

Note that Brooks themselves stop short of recommending would "some Brooks saddle owners" do, and this excerpt mainly uses it as a pretext to warn against overusing Proofide or doing other extreme things to soften saddles.

If you're a couple hundred miles into using a Brooks saddle and it's still not comfortable, it may be the wrong shape for you. Or not set up properly.

BigAura

Your story reminds me of my first Brooks saddle:

When I was a paperboy in the 1960's I'd bought a used Varsity 10-speed for which I liked everything but the saddle. The other paperboys told me about this "spoiled kid" who was selling a Brooks saddle that his dad had bought for him along with his new Schwinn Super Sport. He didn't like the saddle so he was selling it cheap. I don't remember the price but it seemed expensive to me. The guys convinced me to buy it and use their break-in method and I'd love it. They told me to jump in the water and then ride my bike with wet shorts and do this everyday until the saddle felt comfortable. It worked! That Brooks saddle then lasted 40 years (15 actual years of riding). I did also use Snowseal in later years as a treatment.

md11mx

Forty five years of working outside in bunk wet weather at ALL temperatures I can say that mink oil works, period! I ares an elder and I share this to be helpful! If you put it in an oven to help it soak in, make the temp as low as you can!
Cheers,
David in Alaska

Rowan

As has been pointed out numerous times, mink oil does not work on Brooks saddles because its function is entirely different. The saddle is not meant to become soft and pliable like boots, but rather remain quite hard. And adequate attention to keeping the saddle from becoming sopping wet goes a long way to achieving that... without mink or snake or any other sort of oil.

Tourist in MSN

Rowan,

I tried a modification of your method to just dampen the sit bone area instead of the whole saddle yesterday. Brilliant idea. Thanks for posting.

My modification was to:
(1) Locate the sit bone spots with some accuracy by using my fingers to feel where the sit bone spots are on the underside of the saddle when I am on the saddle, then putting a small piece of tape on those spots to mark the spots.
(2) Pull the seatpost out of the frame (with saddle attached), then pull the tape off and use a marker to mark the two sit bone spots on the leather.
(3) Soak some small square patches of paper toweling, maybe 1.5 X 1.5 inches and set on the saddle underside on those spots. Let the leather absorb the moisture for a while.
(4) Reinstall seatpost. Use bike.
(5) Repeat as necessary.

I did this yesterday with a recalcitrant Brooks Pro that I bought in the 1980s at a garage sale. It was nearly new but had previously been treated with Proofide or possibly some other treatment method, so the leather was quite water resistant. I have this saddle on a bike on a trainer, I am trying to break this saddle in by being patient with use on the trainer.