spectastic

I haven't been able to find a lot of info on this, but I'm flirting with the idea of IGH, and I really don't want to pay for a rohloff, so I'm trying to figure out if an alfine 11 is suitable for touring. I think the alfine is mainly targeting commuters who want gearing in their bikes, so I have a few questions about alfine compared to the holy grail of IGH (Rohloff). I figure maybe after a few years after its release, there would be more people with feedback on this thing. Here are my questions:

Reliability/maintenance: can the alfine handle prolonged use in the mountains? the alfine 11 uses an enclosed oil bath, like the rohloff, so does that mean the same maintenance of changing oil every so often, and it's pretty much trouble free?

Drop out options: Apparently, a regular fixie horizontal drop out will not work on a rohloff (I've seen pictures where the torque actually bent the horizontal dropout). Does the alfine have the same requirement in the frame drop out?

General wear: the rohloff supposedly lasts longer than humans, the derailleur drive train consumables supposedly last about 3-5000 miles before needing to be replaced. Does the alfine have an average lifespan?

Efficiency: According to this abstract, alfine's effciency is between 90-96%, whereas the rohloff is on par with the derailleur system at 94-99%. That's a significant difference. Has this been verified by any other source?

I'm also open to discussion for the sram or sturmey archer igh's.

Tourist in MSN

I can't really answer any of your questions, but I can say that the Rohloff with a range of over 500 percent from its lowest to highest gear ratio makes it a good hub for touring. My derailleur touring bikes have even a wider range than the Rohloff. But the other IGHs would not provide enough range for me to consider for touring use. For commuting and general around town riding a much smaller range of gear ratios will work very well for almost everyone.

Derailed

Having not toured on either a Rohloff or an Alfine 11 I can't add much to this thread, but I hope it does draw out a good discussion, as I'm also very curious to hear from some experienced riders.

I've done some touring on a Nexus 8, and it worked very well, but I wasn't in especially mountainous terrain. Based on that experience, however, I'd like to think that the greater gear range and evolved internals of the Alfine 11 would make it a good choice.

As a side note, I just got back from the 2015 NAHMBS, and Rohloffs were EVERYWHERE! It seems like the appeal of belt-driven bikes is encouraging many builders to develop IGH models, so my hope is that increased popularity will ultimately bring prices down. (That said, one person with whom I spoke at the event said that there were even more Gates / Rohloff equipped bikes last year, so perhaps it's not yet clear how strong the demand actually is.)

Mr IGH

As much as I love IGHs, for me they didn't make any sense on a touring bike. Besides the grossly overpriced klunkmaster, the Rolhoff, there isn't an IGH on the market that could be suitable for extended touring. The 8-speed Alfine is up to the task but limited range makes it unsuitable (although it will last, many riders use them on mountain bikes). The Alfine 11 has the range but I don't think it's going to last under loaded touring. I had an Alfine 11 on my mountain bike and after I moved to Colorado I retired it, I didn't want to cash in a $$ hub.

Forget about Sturmey and SRAM, they have failed too many times in the marketplace, the support sucks and bike shops are clueless about their products.

Here's my new tourer in commuter set up, 27 speeds:

Derailed

Of course I can't speak for the OP, but I don't think the point of this thread is to advocate for the use of IGH over derailleurs, nor do I think it is to weigh the pros and cons between the two.

Rather, I think it is for those who have already decided to go with IGH and are seeking an assessment of what's currently out there, specifically in terms of IGH systems.

Mr IGH

I have owned many IGHs and have used them extensively over the last 40 years, I contemplated an IGH tourer and decided better of it. OP asked for input on Alfine hubs, I gave it based on real life experience as an owner that purchased them over-the-counter and rides them extensively. I've used said hubs under large loads over extended time. I'm sorry those action provoked your thread cop instinct.

rifraf

I'm a Rohloff owner so won't offer an opinion despite my feeling that they are an acquired taste and despite riding it for a year now, could not say definitively that I'd buy another if my bike was stolen tomorrow.
I feel I should be able to do this so I feel the hub is over priced.

I will say reading the IGH section of the mtbr forum made it a somewhat easy decision with regards the toss up between Rohloff/Shimano offerings - you make up your own mind reading about the varies problems.
Internal Gear Hubs - Mtbr.com

With regards your question about horizontal dropouts, its late here in Aussie and I'm very tired and may be either not reading properly or understanding what you think the issue may be.
Might my Surly Ogres dropouts answer your question/assertion that horizontal dropouts are problematic?



What your seeing is at the bottom a Rohloff external mech and above that, a stainless bolthead (left) which on the other side, a nut which the OEM2 plate slots around to stop the hub twisting in the dropouts.

A vertical dropout (standard) and frames without something to stop the hub twisting/spinning would utilise a torque arm.

To the right of said bolthead is a tugnut (made by Surly) with what are bottle openers incorporated into the design (I've ground the top one off as it interfered with my trailer nuts, which are directly above the tugnut (has the removable rubber cap attached).

To the left of said trailer nut are the disk brake (BB7) caliber mount bolts.

Behind that tugnut with the black quick release skewer nut are horizontal dropouts and the tugnut is to keep the wheel after removal (puncture?) in the same brake rotor aligned spot it came from and chain tensioned:
wiggle.com.au | Surly Tuggnut Chain Tensioner | Chain Devices And Bash Guards

The top pic here:
Surly drop outs. Worth the hassle?
is another Surly Ogre but without the tugnut which is probably easier to understand or see that it has horizontal dropouts.

Using a Rohloff with threaded axel alleviates to some extent the need for tugnuts according to a large number of owners.

Another with, like mine, two tugnuts:
The Monkey Lab: Rohloff-Equipped Surly Ogre 29er Touring/Mountain Bike in HI-VIZ!

Clearer pic of mostly empty dropouts:
surly ogre dropouts

The Ogre shares these dropouts with the Troll, ECR and possibly others.

The Surly Krampus has horizontal dropouts - without all the extras of the above:
Surly krampus dropouts

Many Krampi utilise Rohloff and probably other IHG.

fietsbob

Touring British rider dropped by LBS had an 11 speed & Versas brifter , [ Issue was just a rack screw too long, touching the chain)

Year earlier mid November, 2 Swedes passed thru town, on 8 speed hub step thru commuter bikes , they had already done the AlCan Highway from Anchorage Ak.

your Thinking may be your Limitation.


Buying used hubs and bikes sold at a discount [ like my R'off Bike Friday (BTO order, guy backed out at delivery time)] cuts Costs.



locally Im using my Mountain drive - Brompton 2 speed crank, mostly for the folding convenience, The 6 gears cover a wide range 18~80 Gear"

PDX Brommy dealer tours on his M6L, added a 36-44t double crank , greasy finger shifts the 2 ranges..

bmike

yes, a track end will work, if you have a disc brake tab and use the cyclymonkey arm, or use the standard torque arm.
here is my krampus with a rohloff:

IMG_4022 by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Test fit and cable, prior to receiving the cycle monkey plate:
Untitled by mbeganyi, on Flickr

alfine, sure, some people break them, some don't. i've a friend who has destroyed 2 of them, bikepacking. big guy, primarily off road. his commuter alfine is going strong.

rifraf

Nice looking bike.
Wish I'd known enough to go in the threaded axel route as I'm still struggling a bit with regards obtaining a suitable skewer.
I've broken a few now and currently had the longest run out of Halo XL Porkies although they have slipped a few times.
My Extrawheel trailer came with a skewer with trailer nuts on both ends.
It lasted until the second tightening before self destructing.

Happy Spinning

bmike

Thanks.
Have you considered a DT Swiss ratcheting skewer?
I've added tugs on both sides. Mainly to make centering easier, but every once in awhile the wheel would slip under hard braking.

spectastic

so the alfine 8 is more durable is will be able to handle a full tour? I'm totally fine with the gearing range of the 8, considering the 8 and the 11 have the same low gearing ratios. The range for a alfine 8 is comparable to my 53/39 to 11/28 combination on my derailleur setup, and it's totally possible to bring an extra cog for those extra steep hills. The high end gearing isn't so important to me, considering the steep hills are often accompanied by steep descents, in which case I just coast my way down the mountain.

I've also read that IGH become more efficient with use. If this is the case, what's the optimal efficiency for an alfine, and how long does it take to get there?

Tourist in MSN

With an IGH, you cut your chain to the correct length. Changing a cog or a chainring would mean lengthening or shortening the chain.

While it is more complicated than just changing a cog, it is pretty simple to set it up if you think about it when you build up the bike. I have two chainrings for my IGH bike, I add a couple links and a second quick link when running the bigger chainring. My bike uses an eccentric bottom bracket, not sure what your bike would use to adjust for chain length, the eccentric takes a few minutes to adjust.

I use a double crank, for around town I have a bash guard (or chain guard) in the outer position, the chain ring in the inner. But for a tour, I set it up with two chainrings as shown in the photo.



Changing chain length and chainrings is not so quick that I want to do it frequently, but if I had several days of climbing followed by several days of flat or down hill riding, changing the chain length would be worth it.

Mr IGH

Yes, without a doubt only one cavet, no shifting whilst pedaling. No load at all under shifting, not any different than a car's manual trans. Many mountain bike riders are using Alfine 8 hubs with 32/22 gearing and getting several years of service (no load shifting is the common thread). I am running an Alfine 8 on my Moonlander with 26/22 gearing, it's handing it for it's third winter. I'm 220lbs and can put out 300W for 20mins and my peak power is over 600W for a couple of minutes.

Yes, there is a break-in effect, I have a two Alfine 8s running presently and both coast like a freehub wheel. One thing I do right away to a brand new Alfine 8 hub is pull the guts and soak 'em in Mobil 1 ATF. There is a little weepage from using oil but it's not too bad, just collects dust. Using a thin oil such as synthetic Mobil 1 make the hub smoother and shifts much better. Also, it's critical that the hub's bearings be adjusted perfectly, no play, no binding.

rifraf

Yes, one of those DT Swiss ratcheting skewers is on my wish list.
I'd like to find out just how long the threaded rod is first to determine wether or not its suitable for my Ogres thick dropouts and tugnuts.
I have had the same experience with two tugnuts.

fietsbob

Thick aluminum dropouts , sliding type tensioner, I use a Burly QR Skewer based Alternate trailer Hitch .

Under the QR left end. I added a spacer to clear the equally thick frame end , outside the sliding dropout,

The CoOp era stock , they after the bankruptcy-privatized take over did not continue the contract for those getting Made ..


This Rig https://www.cyclofiend.com/working/20...clark1008.html

OEM-1 long left Vertical Dropout for the torque transfer.

bmike

Untitled by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Untitled by mbeganyi, on Flickr

blauger

I have a Shimano Alfine 8 on my Soma Saga and have a Paul Components Melvin Chain Tensioner on it. I've toured Seattle to San Fran and had no problems. In terms of performance, the only real issue I notice is having to wait a little longer before shifting into a higher gear.

I've had it 3 years now and have been very happy with it.

rifraf

16.5cm with 2 com threaded end.
Thanks heaps for that.
Much appreciated

I'll try to get hold of a measuring stick and check out what I've got currently as its a little sub par.
The Halo XL Porkies I've got only just grab enough thread for the nut to hold on to.