Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Far Away
    Posts
    54
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Five years in and still not sure of my discipline

    (All times are on outdoor track)
    Guys, I'm getting a little frustrated here and need a bit of an objective take on my abilities.

    The story is that I'm 5 years at the game now, 38 years old and I just can't really find which discipline I sxcel at, so as to concentrate on that particular event. My gains are super slow.

    I've been told I don't have the explosive ability to become a sprinter, I can do Flying 200s ok as I basically roll into them. I've gone from 14.8 to 13.5. But, obviously in a match sprint without the jump I just get wasted. My kilo is pretty much the same due to the standing start element (1.19).

    So, with this in mind I concentrated on pursuitiing... but I've only gone from 5.48 to 5.35.

    Now I know part of this would be technique... aaand I know I shouldn't compare myself to others, but I'm seeing guys make up 40 seconds in one year so I'm getting really frustrated.

    Maybe I'm just not good or got it in me? Here's the kicker, I'm actually pretty strong. In our Team Pursuit I was put in as last man as I was the one with the most kick left at the end and would do almost a full lap pulling at the end with every other guy in the team way ahead of me in IP, 200 and Kilo times...

    Why come on the internet? Basically cos I need something objective. Or as objective as possible. Deep down I know I'm not crap, I've gone from 125kg 7 years ago to 83kg and I work really hard at this,I've gone from the lowest Cat to the highest (this is in a league) but psychologically I need a reason to keep plugging away, I'm getting tired of of going the whole way down the list to find my name in the results.

    I also know it's difficult to give opinions on this with technique not on show... but I can't convince myself that so much of it is technique.

  2. #2
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    12,027
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I like to start this discussion with what you are born with: Muscle Fiber Type.

    Were you an athlete in highschool or college? If so, what sports did you excel at? This will give a clue as to what your muscle fiber type may be. I've asked this question of other masters athletes and it is usually a big indicator as youth sports usually has kids doing all kinds of stuff and kids gravitate to sports to which they are physically predisposed.

    Me, I played short, quick sprint sports: Baseball, Tennis, etc... I couldn't hang in distance running or events like soccer that required a lot of standing, jogging, and running.

    Hang in there. You'll find your niche. The cool thing about track racing is that there exist short, middle, long, and ultra-long events. Even in track cycling, very few people can be good at all events. Usually people pick the one or two that they hold dearly then do similar ones and be competitive, and the others are just for exercise.

  3. #3
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    12,027
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    The next place to look is coaching.

    New racers don't really benefit from getting training plans from coaches. Doing just about anything regularly on the track will get them into the same shape as being on a training plan. Being that you've been in the sport for 5 years, maybe you have exhausted your self-coaching abilities and may benefit from the information from a good coach.

    I don't know what your training plans are, but it could be that in your search far and wide for the discipline that suits you, you are hindering yourself. For example, a 3 hour group road ride on Saturday will totally sap the power out of your legs for a track sprint workout on Sunday.

    There's method to the madness of writing a training program.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Far Away
    Posts
    54
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    I like to start this discussion with what you are born with: Muscle Fiber Type.

    Were you an athlete in highschool or college? If so, what sports did you excel at? This will give a clue as to what your muscle fiber type may be. I've asked this question of other masters athletes and it is usually a big indicator as youth sports usually has kids doing all kinds of stuff and kids gravitate to sports to which they are physically predisposed.

    Me, I played short, quick sprint sports: Baseball, Tennis, etc... I couldn't hang in distance running or events like soccer that required a lot of standing, jogging, and running.

    Hang in there. You'll find your niche. The cool thing about track racing is that there exist short, middle, long, and ultra-long events. Even in track cycling, very few people can be good at all events. Usually people pick the one or two that they hold dearly then do similar ones and be competitive, and the others are just for exercise.
    Thanks for the reply Carleton. Yes, I've spoken to a few about that. I was a 1,500m runner in school and won some medals at school level, but off pace at national level. However, I also won medals in orienteering and longer races so... That's why everyone started pushing me towards pursuit.

    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    The next place to look is coaching.

    New racers don't really benefit from getting training plans from coaches. Doing just about anything regularly on the track will get them into the same shape as being on a training plan. Being that you've been in the sport for 5 years, maybe you have exhausted your self-coaching abilities and may benefit from the information from a good coach.

    I don't know what your training plans are, but it could be that in your search far and wide for the discipline that suits you, you are hindering yourself. For example, a 3 hour group road ride on Saturday will totally sap the power out of your legs for a track sprint workout on Sunday.

    There's method to the madness of writing a training program.
    I had a coach for awhile, informally. Excellent rider himself and many, many years experience and had helped others and myself improve massively. His first recommendation was to begin road racing, which has progressed my fitness in leaps and bounds. But neither of us has time anymore to meet up and get through what we have to and tbh, I can't afford another coach (he was helping me as a favour).

    I guess I'm falling foul of the usual internet naivety and hoping someone will come along with a magic answer, but I've spoken to guys IRL and everyone gives me mixed advice or just tries to prop me up pyschologically so that I believe in myself, still don't get results and fall back into frustration.

  5. #5
    Senior Member dunderhi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lost in the Mid-Atlantic Track Triangle
    My Bikes
    Pinarello XTRACK Sprint, Argon18 Electron Pro, Lynskey Helix
    Posts
    145
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The traditional track events that you have mentioned are primarily solo-type events where the types of riders who typically excel are the ones who can focus themselves internally and push through the pain. In these types of events, an internally focused rider with lesser physical ability can do better than an externally focused rider with greater physical ability. Since you have moved up through the categories, presumably through mass start events, I would guess you are a part of the latter category of rider. I would suggest that you focus on pursuiting, that is, if you really want a traditional track discipline on your resume. My suggestion is not to approach a pursuit as a pursuiter, but as a really capable mass start guy. So, don't worry about a schedule or even an overall time. Worry about the other guy on the track. If you don't have an explosive start, that's great, since it will be easy for your to look at his relative position in the first half of the race. Focus on beating him and nothing else. If you are pursuiting against a weak opponent in a qualifying round, then focus on catching him. This won't get your to a world-class pursuit level, but it could help you win a few pursuits.

    Just my two cents... and in this case, they're free.
    2015 Race Goal - 100 Races
    As of 5/30/15: 48 Races (Track - 40, Crit - 3, TT - 1, CX - maybe, RR - not happening)

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ontario
    My Bikes
    T1, S2, P3
    Posts
    540
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What is your training like? Are you lifting? Are you doing intervals?

    or are you just randomly riding around whenever in any old session and expecting to get better at everything?


    My advice, pick the events you ENJOY the most and train for those more specifically. Like the longer pacing of a pursuit? Time to get on your road/tt bike and do long intervals and lots of Z4/5 rides.

    If you want to see some improvements and start winning stuff, its time to focus. Forget natural talent, that just dictates how easy the training will be, you still need to put in the work. Not that it won't spill over, a faster kilo will make a faster pursuit, but if you want motivation pick 1 distance and focus your training on it for 6-12months.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Far Away
    Posts
    54
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
    The traditional track events that you have mentioned are primarily solo-type events where the types of riders who typically excel are the ones who can focus themselves internally and push through the pain. In these types of events, an internally focused rider with lesser physical ability can do better than an externally focused rider with greater physical ability. Since you have moved up through the categories, presumably through mass start events, I would guess you are a part of the latter category of rider. I would suggest that you focus on pursuiting, that is, if you really want a traditional track discipline on your resume. My suggestion is not to approach a pursuit as a pursuiter, but as a really capable mass start guy. So, don't worry about a schedule or even an overall time. Worry about the other guy on the track. If you don't have an explosive start, that's great, since it will be easy for your to look at his relative position in the first half of the race. Focus on beating him and nothing else. If you are pursuiting against a weak opponent in a qualifying round, then focus on catching him. This won't get your to a world-class pursuit level, but it could help you win a few pursuits.

    Just my two cents... and in this case, they're free.
    Thanks. I'm actually not great at mass starts either, usually a tactical issue. I can move up in our league as I've grown stronger but don't podium in it. When I race nationally I'm left for dust, I have been lapped many a time. There's not a huge track community here so when you get to the lower end of the results table there's a great disparity in abilities. I've caught my opponenet quite easily in the last two pursuits, but they were like 20 seconds slower than me in the end. I appreciate the point about pyschology though. I may need to take a different approach.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Far Away
    Posts
    54
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by gtrob View Post
    What is your training like? Are you lifting? Are you doing intervals?

    or are you just randomly riding around whenever in any old session and expecting to get better at everything?


    My advice, pick the events you ENJOY the most and train for those more specifically. Like the longer pacing of a pursuit? Time to get on your road/tt bike and do long intervals and lots of Z4/5 rides.

    If you want to see some improvements and start winning stuff, its time to focus. Forget natural talent, that just dictates how easy the training will be, you still need to put in the work. Not that it won't spill over, a faster kilo will make a faster pursuit, but if you want motivation pick 1 distance and focus your training on it for 6-12months.
    Yes I lift

    Yes I do intervals

    No I don't just randomly ride around. In fact some weeks I'm racing three nights a week.

    This year might be a better year for me in away because I'm no longer unemployed, but have three jobs which is restricting my training, but I usually burn out every year by Autumn as I don't rest enough later in the year.

    Maybe it's time like you said, I should just pick one and work on it, instead of it trying to find me.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ontario
    My Bikes
    T1, S2, P3
    Posts
    540
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well then the flip side, do you rest? That sounds familiar, right down to the times, to a friend of mine who puts it more hours/week and racers more than anyone I know, yet doesn't get any faster except for the odd fluke when he is accidentally rested.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Far Away
    Posts
    54
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by gtrob View Post
    Well then the flip side, do you rest? That sounds familiar, right down to the times, to a friend of mine who puts it more hours/week and racers more than anyone I know, yet doesn't get any faster except for the odd fluke when he is accidentally rested.
    I've tried to be more aware of it this year, but work is demanding with long hours these days, so I concentrate more on resting than training. Training usually comes lower down the priority list this year, which is why I'm trying to just pick one event.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    My Bikes
    Marin Stelvio, Pogliaghi road, Panasonic track, Dolan DF3
    Posts
    825
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I would second what gtrob said– which events do you enjoy most? Just focus on those, then you can forget where your "talent" may lie.

  12. #12
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    12,027
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Recognizing your talent in sport is like recognizing when you've been chosen by a girl...it makes scoring points a lot easier

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Far Away
    Posts
    54
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
    I would second what gtrob said– which events do you enjoy most? Just focus on those, then you can forget where your "talent" may lie.
    I take your point guys and I don't want to be facetious, but it's nice to find you excel in something in particular rather than mediocre at everything, if you take my point. I enjoy all the events and do them all, even when it's suggested I rest myself for one in particular.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Velocirapture's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    South Africa
    My Bikes
    S-1 :-D
    Posts
    369
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Murakami View Post
    I take your point guys and I don't want to be facetious, but it's nice to find you excel in something in particular rather than mediocre at everything, if you take my point. I enjoy all the events and do them all, even when it's suggested I rest myself for one in particular.
    You've kinda contradicted yourself here - you'd like to excel in one thing in particular, but you won't focus on one thing in particular ;-) . From the discussion above, it seems that this might be a key factor holding you back. Any sprinter would be horrified if you suggested they do a 4h ride on the weekend, in the same way that a pursuiter would be, if they were advised to do four x max-effort qualifiers and then go home. Specific events need specific training if you want to excel in them.
    A jack of all trades is the master of none - unless of course you are considering omnium racing. Maybe an option?

    You've gotten far on general talent and general training, if you want to go up the next step, you need to focus your training like the guys have already said.
    In your opening post you say "I just can't really find which discipline I excel at, so as to concentrate on that particular event.". I read this to mean that you want to excel FIRST, and THEN focus on it (to excel more?). Generally folk find what they are good at, and then focus on it in order to excel.

    What are you good at? You've climbed up from the lowest cat to the highest and you've lost 42Kg doing it. The highest cat = you are pretty good at everything (which you already know) Here's where @gtrob's suggestion comes in, that you pick what you enjoy, since there are no obvious ones to rule out. Except perhaps pursuit, as you tried that and it didn't seem to shine for you.

    So we come back to the issue that you don't know which one to choose
    All the usual methods of choosing your focus have been presented to you; - what sports you've historically enjoyed, what events you naturally excel in, what the numbers say..
    Looking at all of that, I agree with @dunderhi in that you seem to be less a pursuiter type, and more a bunch rider type. Your TP ability reinforces that for me - you can keep coming back. An excellent ability in a bunch races, where there are big attacks, small attacks, and various lulls. I know you say you're an average (cat 1) bunch racer. Same with all the cat 1 events, yes?

    But in the end, we can't chose for you.
    Last edited by Velocirapture; 05-06-15 at 07:31 AM.
    "All this talk of climbing is making me feel kinda queasy..." -- Baby Puke

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Far Away
    Posts
    54
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Velocirapture View Post
    You've kinda contradicted yourself here - you'd like to excel in one thing in particular, but you won't focus on one thing in particular ;-) . From the discussion above, it seems that this might be a key factor holding you back. Any sprinter would be horrified if you suggested they do a 4h ride on the weekend, in the same way that a pursuiter would be, if they were advised to do four x max-effort qualifiers and then go home. Specific events need specific training if you want to excel in them.
    A jack of all trades is the master of none - unless of course you are considering omnium racing. Maybe an option?

    You've gotten far on general talent and general training, if you want to go up the next step, you need to focus your training like the guys have already said.
    In your opening post you say "I just can't really find which discipline I excel at, so as to concentrate on that particular event.". I read this to mean that you want to excel FIRST, and THEN focus on it (to excel more?). Generally folk find what they are good at, and then focus on it in order to excel.

    What are you good at? You've climbed up from the lowest cat to the highest and you've lost 42Kg doing it. The highest cat = you are pretty good at everything (which you already know) Here's where @gtrob's suggestion comes in, that you pick what you enjoy, since there are no obvious ones to rule out. Except perhaps pursuit, as you tried that and it didn't seem to shine for you.

    So we come back to the issue that you don't know which one to choose
    All the usual methods of choosing your focus have been presented to you; - what sports you've historically enjoyed, what events you naturally excel in, what the numbers say..
    Looking at all of that, I agree with @dunderhi in that you seem to be less a pursuiter type, and more a bunch rider type. Your TP ability reinforces that for me - you can keep coming back. An excellent ability in a bunch races, where there are big attacks, small attacks, and various lulls. I know you say you're an average (cat 1) bunch racer. Same with all the cat 1 events, yes?

    But in the end, we can't chose for you.
    That pretty much encapsulates it. All the advice has kind of pushed me in one direction. I'm pretty obviously a pursuiter. I train for pursuit already, it's what my biggest advances have come in. I'll keep training and maybe spend more time/effort working out the technique of it.

    I appreciate all the help guys.

  16. #16
    Senior Member taras0000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
    Posts
    443
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You mind posting what your typical training week looks like? And how far along in the season are you?
    Taras - :noun. 1. Typically an overweight has-been that can sometimes be seen pootling around a velodrome on an old Look KG 233.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Far Away
    Posts
    54
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Season began first week in February, racing road.

    I usually do weights Monday (I mostly do upper body at this point in the year as I have some bad shoulder issues).

    Tuesday I'd do some hill repeats or race crit.

    Wednesdays have been pursuit roller sessions on the road bike. These are triangles that aim to get me to 140 in 50x11 for three minutes. These are now moving to Thursdays as I race Wednesdays now.

    Thursdays, I used to do a short 60km spin with some sprint efforts.

    Friday gym

    Saturday race or derny sessions and sprint work.

    Sunday race or long spin (90km is long for me)

    I don't always get these sessions in due to work. In fact, this week I've only managed two lame sessions as I'm completely bogged down. Thursday I'll often just treat as an active recovery day tbh.

  18. #18
    Senior Member taras0000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
    Posts
    443
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That's a lot of racing during the week. To me it looks like you're not making progress in anything because you're not specifically training anything. Racing is good to develop tactical skill/awareness, but it sucks for improvements physically because you end up working so many different systems that your racing sessions become muddled efforts with no real physical goal focus. Your program is really just randomized training, except its worse because none of your sessions or progression take into account a training focus.

    I see: Monday = high intensity (maybe Medium, depends on how you lift), Tues = high intensity, Wed = low/med intensity, Thurs = med intensity, Fri = Med/hugh intensity, Sat = med/high intensity, Sun = med/high intensity. Where do you recover? 60km is not short unless you're looking to be a road racer. Even then it's not short, even for Elite enduros. The only chance for recovery that I see is your roller session, or a missed workout.

    I mentioned before, racing doesn't use the session to try to improve a training focus, ie: Sprint workouts, HIIT, LSD, Threshold training. Racing just takes a little bit of all of these and muddles them into the same session. Fine for a novice, not after 5 years, or even 3. Your body responds to the specific stresses that put on it. Muddled input = muddled results. A novice will improve from just about any training, even the "wrong" type of training. Once you become efficient with a certain activity, you need to apply deliberate stresses, to get deliberate improvements.

    Guys who make progress in their training generally race once a week, maybe twice. Even if all 7 days of the week are structured with something, this still leave 5 days left to devote to proper training and recovery. And if they race twice a week, I'll bet that one of those days is spent racing a TT. When you train, you need to be working on a specific training goal each session, be it sprint, threshold, interval recovery, active recovery, power/strength. Your body adapts to the loads that are put on it. By training it in a specific way each session, the specific stresses are sending a clearer message of what type of supercompensation you are looking to get out of the recovery process. Your training should also be structured so that certain aspects of one's training are not compromising the next days workouts. You wouldn't want to do a race day before sprint day, because you won't be fresh and snappy for the sprint workout. The only thing you will teach your body is how to sprint when you are tired. Same goes for race results. If you want good race results, you're not going to do a 90km ride the day before and race tired are ya?

    Your past sporting experience tells me you are more inclined to the Endurance side of things. I would spend less time racing, and focusing your efforts on training with a purpose each session. You'll be able to focus on what you want to improve, and be more rested as well.
    Taras - :noun. 1. Typically an overweight has-been that can sometimes be seen pootling around a velodrome on an old Look KG 233.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Far Away
    Posts
    54
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
    That's a lot of racing during the week. To me it looks like you're not making progress in anything because you're not specifically training anything. Racing is good to develop tactical skill/awareness, but it sucks for improvements physically because you end up working so many different systems that your racing sessions become muddled efforts with no real physical goal focus. Your program is really just randomized training, except its worse because none of your sessions or progression take into account a training focus.

    I see: Monday = high intensity (maybe Medium, depends on how you lift), Tues = high intensity, Wed = low/med intensity, Thurs = med intensity, Fri = Med/hugh intensity, Sat = med/high intensity, Sun = med/high intensity. Where do you recover? 60km is not short unless you're looking to be a road racer. Even then it's not short, even for Elite enduros. The only chance for recovery that I see is your roller session, or a missed workout.

    I mentioned before, racing doesn't use the session to try to improve a training focus, ie: Sprint workouts, HIIT, LSD, Threshold training. Racing just takes a little bit of all of these and muddles them into the same session. Fine for a novice, not after 5 years, or even 3. Your body responds to the specific stresses that put on it. Muddled input = muddled results. A novice will improve from just about any training, even the "wrong" type of training. Once you become efficient with a certain activity, you need to apply deliberate stresses, to get deliberate improvements.

    Guys who make progress in their training generally race once a week, maybe twice. Even if all 7 days of the week are structured with something, this still leave 5 days left to devote to proper training and recovery. And if they race twice a week, I'll bet that one of those days is spent racing a TT. When you train, you need to be working on a specific training goal each session, be it sprint, threshold, interval recovery, active recovery, power/strength. Your body adapts to the loads that are put on it. By training it in a specific way each session, the specific stresses are sending a clearer message of what type of supercompensation you are looking to get out of the recovery process. Your training should also be structured so that certain aspects of one's training are not compromising the next days workouts. You wouldn't want to do a race day before sprint day, because you won't be fresh and snappy for the sprint workout. The only thing you will teach your body is how to sprint when you are tired. Same goes for race results. If you want good race results, you're not going to do a 90km ride the day before and race tired are ya?

    Your past sporting experience tells me you are more inclined to the Endurance side of things. I would spend less time racing, and focusing your efforts on training with a purpose each session. You'll be able to focus on what you want to improve, and be more rested as well.
    Ok, I appreciate, the feedback. I have to ask though... I've always been told that racing helps you race, your body gets used to repeated sprints out of corners, begins to recover more quickly, so is good for pushing on fitness?

    My training begins to change now as weather improves here in Europe. I'll be doing repeated, rolling 1k efforts on track, mixed with standing start efforts on other days. I'll be training on track Fri-Sun too as road race opportunities taper. So I'll only be racing crits Tues and a track league Wed? If not racing Tues, I might just enjoy a gently spin somewhere, so as to have opportunities to just enjoy being on a bike. As I said, my season is Feb to Oct or November so I'd like to finish not hating the sight of a bike, Y'know.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    68
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Murakami View Post
    Ok, I appreciate, the feedback. I have to ask though... I've always been told that racing helps you race, your body gets used to repeated sprints out of corners, begins to recover more quickly, so is good for pushing on fitness?

    My training begins to change now as weather improves here in Europe. I'll be doing repeated, rolling 1k efforts on track, mixed with standing start efforts on other days. I'll be training on track Fri-Sun too as road race opportunities taper. So I'll only be racing crits Tues and a track league Wed? If not racing Tues, I might just enjoy a gently spin somewhere, so as to have opportunities to just enjoy being on a bike. As I said, my season is Feb to Oct or November so I'd like to finish not hating the sight of a bike, Y'know.
    I'm under the impression that the phrase, Race to get get good at racing, is more intended as a description of the development of tactics and skills used in racing rather than fitness. Whereabouts in Europe are you?

  21. #21
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    12,027
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Banchad View Post
    I'm under the impression that the phrase, Race to get get good at racing, is more intended as a description of the development of tactics and skills used in racing rather than fitness.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Murakami View Post
    Ok, I appreciate, the feedback. I have to ask though... I've always been told that racing helps you race, your body gets used to repeated sprints out of corners, begins to recover more quickly, so is good for pushing on fitness?
    For beginners, yes. The increased activity will result in better fitness as well as gaining tactics.

    But, the gains for intermediate and advanced athletes will start to taper off. That's when a proper Periodization plan comes in to play. (*In the grand scheme of things, even at 5 years, you are still a "beginner". Advancing to "intermediate" takes a few years of the following)

    This is sort of the reference book on the subject: Periodization-5th Edition: Theory and Methodology of Training: Tudor Bompa, G. Gregory Haff: 9780736074834: Amazon.com: Books

    It's a good read, especially if you want to coach yourself or others.

    The bottom line is that most athletes don't just race or play a lot to get better at their sport. The idea is to identify the key components that you need to train (i.e. Strength, Power, Speed, Endurance, Speed-Endurance, etc...) and train them individually at the right time during the year all while understanding that some systems take longer to develop than others (i.e. pure strength). And similarly, some systems, when trained, will fade faster than others (i.e. top speed). A good training plan will have your "big event" in mind (i.e. Regional, National, or World Championships) and will then work backwards and plan the development of these systems such that they all come together at the right time to create an annual "peak".

    This is why some guys will opt out of certain races, rides, or events because they aren't in the right training block for that type of effort. (This is why I say I don't do Kilos early in the season...yeah, that's my excuse )

    Then there are systems that take years to develop like our lungs and vascular system. This is why guys who have raced for decades can take years off and still come back and be competitive with relatively little ramp up.

    So, that's "macro" programming on an annual level. There is also micro programming on a monthly or weekly level where athletes will vary the volume and intensity of their workouts in order to gain Supercompensation. That's what this is all about. Stress and Supercompensation. The idea is to do just a little more than your body is accustomed to doing and (given time to rest) it will adapt with supercompensation and be stronger than before.

    A good coach would know all of the above and how to apply it to you and your needs. Some coaches really are worth a few bucks a month.

  22. #22
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    12,027
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Also, to give you another perspective:

    Think about the time you would like to shave off of your 200M, 1KM, 3K, and 4K times. Write them down. Want to take off 2 seconds from your Flying 200? Want to take off 6 or 9 seconds from your Kilo?

    Take out your smart phone and use the stopwatch app and see how quickly those few seconds spin by. It's gonna take a lot of concentrated training effort to get those last few seconds, or fractions thereof.

    Here's the thing. Most trackies aren't that serious about it. But a few of us are. You seem like you are. The ones that show up at Masters Nationals and Masters Worlds are...and most of them are training on an annual training program. Either one that they got from a coach or one that they've put together on their own after having been coached for a while. Many will work with several coaches over the years looking for the right program or pieces of programs that will work for them.

    It's a journey...a fun one

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Far Away
    Posts
    54
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I got Friel's book... but in all honesty, I can't get my head around the simplest of concepts in it. I do take it seriously, which is sometimes to my detriment. I'm trying to stress less about it this year and deciding on one event to concentrate on was part of that. I've also realised I take quite a bit of time to recover and rest, a few days even, usually sees me coming back stronger after some hard efforts. There are a few weeks left now til National events begin, so I'm just going to knuckle down to some specific training as advised above. I'll see how it goes.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •