Originally Posted by queerpunk

my training buddy and i have a joke about triathletes: what's the hardest part of a triathlon?

law school.

apparently Specialized designed the Shiv to have a tall headtube - to have high handlebars. if you think about it, most recreationally competitive triathletes probably don't really do much bike training. not compared to a bike racer. they're not going to get fit and re-fit, and work to strengthen the core to hold a really aggressively aerodynamic position; they're not going to figure out where their power drops off. they have two other sports to focus on, too. and, i also wonder if a lot of triathletes take aesthetic cues from ironman competitors, who, since they're doing a 100mi TT, are setting up positions that they can hold for 4+ hours (rather than a bike racer TTist who is setting up something for a much, much, much shorter time trial and so is focused on power and aerodynamics, not the extent to which they can hold a position).

so there are shortcuts. and there are things that to us don't make sense.

that said, olympic triathlons are much more interesting - they're draft legal, so the bike leg is a lot more like a bike race. gwen jorgenson, the subject of the video below, is a member of my community - races some cx races, married to someone i used to race against, etc. she's a damn fine athlete and a good bike rider, too.

this video made (olympic) tris a lot more interesting to me... but all of the ribbing about more casual triathletes is still ok...

https://vimeo.com/123057740

Originally Posted by taras0000

I wouldn't worry too much about it. When I was young and starting into track cycling, I had a similar mindset. I was a Junior racer who was much stronger than the other kids around me. Not when it came to road racing, but on the track. It was easy to "self coach" for a while, and because I like to read and research, I was looking at anything and everything that i thought might give me an advantage when it came to racing outside of my stomping grounds. Luckily I had a father who had a pretty good bull**** meter and I soon was able to separate what would likely work and was sensible, versus what might work, and would be a waste of time.

Originally Posted by carleton

Further...

I rip on triatletes a lot. But, they approach their sport differently than other cycling genres. Most cycling (BMX, track, road, MTB, CX...) is a "me vs them" or "man vs man" type of competition. Triathlons are generally 3 time trials back-to-back (swimming TT, cycling TT, running TT) and there is less focus on the opponent(s) and more inward TT focusing, so "Me vs Me". So, they don't really train pack racing skills like drafting, positioning, etc... (actually drafting is illegal in most triathlons). These skills are core to road, crit, and track racing. And excellent bike handling in general is key to BMX, MTB, and CX. This is sorta why they freak out when you meet dedicated tri geeks on a bike path. (This is also why there seems to be a direct correlation between BMX and track sprinting...100% efforts, close quarters, etc...)

Also, it seems like more lifelong runners migrate to triathlons than lifelong swimmers or cyclists. So, cycling is more of a "necessary evil" to some. I've heard some explain that they setup their bikes to feel like they are running.

So, they are just weird people to me

Originally Posted by Omiak

Stiffness probably doesn't really matter, but smaller wheels will accelerate faster. They're lighter and the weight is closer to the center of rotation. You'd also be able to draft closer. Not sure if 650c is UCI legal or not but there was at one point in history a very successful track team that rode 17" wheeled Alex Moulton bikes until the UCI banned them.

Originally Posted by Baby Puke

Relatedly, here's my new bike:

Originally Posted by carleton

Nice!!

You gonna start racing BMX?

Originally Posted by carleton

Yes, 650s are UCI legal. Actually any wheels that are same size front/rear are UCI legal.

The Moulton bikes may have been baned for other reasons. No double-diamond frame maybe.

Originally Posted by Omiak

Interesting. I should probably take this thing to the track.

Originally Posted by carleton

Except the bars had, I KID YOU NOT, like at least 10 inches of riser blocks under them. The poor owner would have been better off riding a standard road bike with 44cm drop bars (he would have been more comfortable and just as "aero").

Originally Posted by StephenH

I know one (very good) rider who uses aero bars that are up higher than normal- actually, custom made for him. He's fast, but the aero bars are set up that way for comfort, not just speed, and seem to work very well.

Originally Posted by gycho77

Wow!! you should not sell the bike. It's a master's world champion's bike!!!
I should sell my track bike, and purchase your wife's bike. haha
I wish I could see that amazing bike.

How did you solve the bb drop problem?

Originally Posted by carleton

Yes, 650s are UCI legal. Actually any wheels that are same size front/rear are UCI legal.

The Moulton bikes may have been baned for other reasons. No double-diamond frame maybe.

Originally Posted by slindell

If under UC rules there is a min and max limit besides the same rule.

1.3.018 - Min 55, max 70 cm including the tire.

Originally Posted by StephenH

I know one (very good) rider who uses aero bars that are up higher than normal- actually, custom made for him. He's fast, but the aero bars are set up that way for comfort, not just speed, and seem to work very well.

Originally Posted by brawlo

I'm not sure where things are up to in aero thinking, but a few years ago when one of our club juniors was experimenting with his TT position, things were moving towards higher upper body position. This was to allow freer breathing rather than going full aero. It was found that even though the lower position was technically faster, the compression of the chest cavity was restricting breathing and thus power output. It's just one of those things that's purely dependent on the rider though