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Old 06-01-16, 12:30 PM   #1
Not the Slowest
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Looking for help with Purchasing a TT bar set-up

Hey all,

Well never thought I was really a TT kind of guy, exclusive of team events but looks like I may be. My guess is that I will compete a maximum of 4-6X a season if all goes well
in Masters 45-50-55+ 2k based on when and where.

So here are my questions?
a)I need bars etc...duhh. That said I would like something affordable which most likely will go on my Affinity Kissena bike.
b) I could not find the thread but what adjustments do I make to the saddle and how to I "Start" figuring my position. I could go to my bike fitter but also want to make sure my set-up is legal.

Thanks in advance

Robert

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Old 06-01-16, 01:03 PM   #2
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So pursuit? Or kilo (or master's kilo equivalent)? Position will probably be driven by event distance as there are rules and such that make you conform to a box, but those rules can be used as a guideline. Aside from going to a fitter (my recommendation), there is a lot of trial and error.
As for bars I'd cruise ebay to get a sense of what is out there for track. You may be able to cobble together a bull horn and clip on set up fairly affordably depending on your existing cockpit.
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Old 06-01-16, 01:06 PM   #3
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Lots of good stuff in the thread "Aero Bars for Kilo" you may want to read.
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Old 06-01-16, 01:34 PM   #4
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Aiming towards 2K for Master Nats and another Regional plus a few 1K and 4K events locally.
My issue was concern on the bullhorns of them perhaps NOT being low enough and losing some
pull in the start.
Then again, what do I know...so I ask.

I guess ebay can work as good as any but need to figure a "range" for my fit


I'll look up the thread, thanks
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Old 06-01-16, 03:34 PM   #5
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Aiming towards 2K for Master Nats and another Regional plus a few 1K and 4K events locally.
My issue was concern on the bullhorns of them perhaps NOT being low enough and losing some
pull in the start.

Then again, what do I know...so I ask.

I guess ebay can work as good as any but need to figure a "range" for my fit


I'll look up the thread, thanks
That's a concern that even elite kilo riders contend with.

It seems that most kilo riders really like deep drop bars for standing starts to get that sprint bar feeling. Which, when done right, feels sorta like a good dead lift. Most aerobars don't tilt the base bar grips significantly lower than the clamp area. Older base bars did.

For longer races (2,000-4,000M) you don't want to use a monster standing start anyway, so having shallow base bars isn't an issue. If you go out too hard on those events from the start, you will suffer badly during the event.

For clues (and reassurance) look at what the pro Kilo riders are riding. Many of them use off-the-rack aero bars. I know 3T has A LOT of aerobars and they have a riser system that is very modular.

My suggestion would be to look at the 3T line of aerobars. And being that you are in a major city, you can probably visit a well-equipped bike shop that will have some in stock so you can see before you buy. Look for bike shops that serve the triathlon crowd. Ask if they are a 3T dealer. If so, they will have lots for you to peruse.
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Old 06-01-16, 03:39 PM   #6
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Hey all,

Well never thought I was really a TT kind of guy, exclusive of team events but looks like I may be. My guess is that I will compete a maximum of 4-6X a season if all goes well
in Masters 45-50-55+ 2k based on when and where.

So here are my questions?
a)I need bars etc...duhh. That said I would like something affordable which most likely will go on my Affinity Kissena bike.
b) I could not find the thread but what adjustments do I make to the saddle and how to I "Start" figuring my position. I could go to my bike fitter but also want to make sure my set-up is legal.

Thanks in advance

Robert
As far as adjustments go, some good starting points:

- When using aerobars, pair them with a stem that is 2cm/20mm shorter than the stem you use for drop bars. Using the same stem will have the aerobars too far in front and will adversely affect handling.
- Consider moving your saddle forwards 1-2cm. Many people sort of sit back when using drop bars. But for aerobars, you need your hips and body more foreward.

Again, these aren't hard and fast requirements. Just some basic guidelines to start because riding with aerobars on the same bike with which you use drop bars is very different.
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Old 06-01-16, 06:42 PM   #7
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The 3t vola pro would be a good budget starting tt-bar. All alu with the riser system and come with either S-bend or J-bend aero extension. Some in the past used adjustable stem like the look ergostem to get the base bar super low for the kilo and then raise it up for the pursuit but keep in mind that the reach in the kilo position would be shorter.
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Old 06-02-16, 05:10 AM   #8
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Good points all.
Since I'm starting earlier than most I hope to have enough time to find something and work to tweak it out.
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Old 06-02-16, 06:14 AM   #9
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Good points all.
Since I'm starting earlier than most I hope to have enough time to find something and work to tweak it out.
Any visits to Ttown planned in the near future? I can loan you a Profile set-up I have laying around.

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Old 06-02-16, 06:27 AM   #10
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As far as adjustments go, some good starting points:

- When using aerobars, pair them with a stem that is 2cm/20mm shorter than the stem you use for drop bars. Using the same stem will have the aerobars too far in front and will adversely affect handling.
- Consider moving your saddle forwards 1-2cm. Many people sort of sit back when using drop bars. But for aerobars, you need your hips and body more foreward.

Again, these aren't hard and fast requirements. Just some basic guidelines to start because riding with aerobars on the same bike with which you use drop bars is very different.
Good advice that I agree with. The biggest problems I see with a lot of people with unrefined TT positions are:
1. The bars are too high and too far away, so they are reaching for them
2. The saddle is too low and too far back, so they have a very closed hip angle.

Basically, to start setting up a reasonable fit with aerobars, bring your saddle forward (and, accordingly, up a bit). The bars start lower and closer - aim to have your upper arms vertical.

There's a lot more to refining a fit than that, but it's a good place to start.
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Old 06-02-16, 08:55 AM   #11
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I use Zipp Vukas and I can echo the sentiment that I would probably favor a deeper drop to the bullhorn portion for kilo starts. That said, Pervis has a fairly flat set up and it doesn't seem to slow him down much.
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Old 06-03-16, 01:10 PM   #12
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That's very nice of you. I was hoping this Sunday but looks not a wash out. So maybe Sunday 6-19 or sooner. Once I have a more specific time range I'll PM you.
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Any visits to Ttown planned in the near future? I can loan you a Profile set-up I have laying around.

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Old 06-03-16, 01:13 PM   #13
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YUP, My hope is to get semi comfy and then perhaps get fitted again by my fitter. Of course I hate to spend the $$ but a bad set-up could be both painful and a waste of $$ and time.
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Good advice that I agree with. The biggest problems I see with a lot of people with unrefined TT positions are:
1. The bars are too high and too far away, so they are reaching for them
2. The saddle is too low and too far back, so they have a very closed hip angle.

Basically, to start setting up a reasonable fit with aerobars, bring your saddle forward (and, accordingly, up a bit). The bars start lower and closer - aim to have your upper arms vertical.

There's a lot more to refining a fit than that, but it's a good place to start.
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Old 06-03-16, 01:14 PM   #14
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I'm Doing a 2K Pursuit and perhaps a Team effort. So the deeper drop on the horns may not be all that crucial as say a Kilo.
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I use Zipp Vukas and I can echo the sentiment that I would probably favor a deeper drop to the bullhorn portion for kilo starts. That said, Pervis has a fairly flat set up and it doesn't seem to slow him down much.
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Old 06-03-16, 01:27 PM   #15
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By the way, it's worth noting that for some riders, aerobars are not faster than drop bars.

Case 1:

If your event is 500m, even at the elite World level, aero bars are used by around half of the elite women and very few of the elite men. In such a short event, the standing start is crucial. The 100% effort standing start is always better using sprint bars. So, if you have a better start, use drop bars. If you have a better top-end or finishing speed, then use aero bars.


Case 2:

If your event is 750M, Aerobars are like 50% for men. Again, it depends on if your start is great or not.



Case 3:

Kilo. It's generally accepted that a kilo is faster in aerobars than drop bars.

Case 4:

The factor that upsets all of the above: Narrow Drop Bars. Narrow drop bars (33-35m) are a big x-factor. In 2011, Sky Chritopherson rode a super-fast 1:06.481 Kilo at Masters Worlds riding 35cm Scattos. He won Silver. Missed Gold by +0.329". Sky was in the 35-39 age group. But to put that into perspective, 1:04 is fast enough to win US Elite Kilo.


Case 5:

If you aren't super fast or comfortable in the aerobars, drops may be better.
If you are not very flexible and up really high, drops may be better.



(Anecdotal) Case 6:

I've matched my PB Kilo (a blistering 1:15) using both aerobars and 37cm drop bars. At DLV, I rode slightly faster in 33cm drops than I did in aerobars.


My point: Don't assume that aerobars are automatically faster than drops.
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Old 06-03-16, 01:45 PM   #16
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Fantastic and spot on.

My first thought in regard to using them was "Will I be comfortable". I'm not so sure I will be flexible as I may need and thus why this is a test.

So the point that you make and which I will look at is simply which way am I faster. I'm just happy to hear that in an event I never thought to do may be my better event. Now all I have to do is get faster and hopefully the bars will work for me and help give me an edge.

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By the way, it's worth noting that for some riders, aerobars are not faster than drop bars.

Case 1:

If your event is 500m, even at the elite World level, aero bars are used by around half of the elite women and very few of the elite men. In such a short event, the standing start is crucial. The 100% effort standing start is always better using sprint bars. So, if you have a better start, use drop bars. If you have a better top-end or finishing speed, then use aero bars.


Case 2:

If your event is 750M, Aerobars are like 50% for men. Again, it depends on if your start is great or not.



Case 3:

Kilo. It's generally accepted that a kilo is faster in aerobars than drop bars.

Case 4:

The factor that upsets all of the above: Narrow Drop Bars. Narrow drop bars (33-35m) are a big x-factor. In 2011, Sky Chritopherson rode a super-fast 1:06.481 Kilo at Masters Worlds riding 35cm Scattos. He won Silver. Missed Gold by +0.329". Sky was in the 35-39 age group. But to put that into perspective, 1:04 is fast enough to win US Elite Kilo.


Case 5:

If you aren't super fast or comfortable in the aerobars, drops may be better.
If you are not very flexible and up really high, drops may be better.



(Anecdotal) Case 6:

I've matched my PB Kilo (a blistering 1:15) using both aerobars and 37cm drop bars. At DLV, I rode slightly faster in 33cm drops than I did in aerobars.


My point: Don't assume that aerobars are automatically faster than drops.
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Old 06-03-16, 02:19 PM   #17
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Comfort is a key component to riding fast. It takes a while to be 100% comfortable on aerobars. I'd suggest devoting a significant amount of time to setting them up and simply riding in them before trying efforts on them.

We are older riders. We can't bend over like a stapler like the elites can.

You mention that you may do 4-6 events all season in aerobars. You'd probably be better off focusing on training, pacing, and whatnot with drop bars. Maybe consider using some narrow drop bars as your "aerobars" for an easy solution?
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Old 06-03-16, 05:07 PM   #18
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Maybe. I am working with a Track Coach so I am in touch on the subject. On the plus side there is about 9 weeks until Masters Nats so I will continue training and do what I can. To quote Popeye "I am what I am, cause that's all that I am" , BUT TRAINING HELPS.
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Old 06-23-16, 10:15 AM   #19
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Okay, I ran intio a problem so need a lil more help.
Bought some profile T1 bars and a "simple" pursuit bar to get my feel for the positioning.
The bar I bought has a 26cm stem area and the skis have an adapter to fit the bars.
HOWEVER, the bar tapers to fast so the clamping area is too small for the skis to clamp.

So here is my question.
what should be the clamping area for the skis. In otherwords some have 100cm, 110cm, 120.
I'm using 42-44 on the road and am broad shouldered. I am thinking that a 100cm clamping area may be too uncomfortable and found some bars that are 40mm with that as standard.
Additionally most bars I look at do not give you this info.
Thanks
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Old 06-23-16, 04:14 PM   #20
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I have made shims to address this problem in the past, it's doable.
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Old 06-23-16, 05:09 PM   #21
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Shims yes and no

The skis came with shims but due to the taper that was not working I beleive as the bars were shiny and the ski clamps were slipping or maybe there was simply not enough area before it tapered off. I did have no issue with an OS matte finish bar....so far that is setting it up on a table but not it really use.

In anycase looks like this will be a trial and error to get started even before the fit and comfort etc involved in
a new way to ride a bike.

I'll keep you posted as this goes.
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Old 06-24-16, 04:30 PM   #22
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Can you pop a couple of photos up? I had a similar problem with a TT bar set-up that i got, and ended up sorting it out by putting the skis on the 'wrong' sides, and then mounting the fore-arm rests inside out.

That is likely to be a confusing statement, so i'll take some pics.

I'll show you mine if you show me yours
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Old 06-24-16, 04:51 PM   #23
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Ha

Maybe Sunday night here in USA.
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Old 07-21-16, 09:42 AM   #24
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So all seemed to be getting there and I did a few 2k's here at Kissena.
Took the bike to Ttown for a timed 2k, that went well if I was biking under the influence.

My start was good and into the transition, then I looked like I had a bit too much to drink. Just had so much trouble steering and in a way you could say overcompensating. Actually almost took the coach out going into turn 1 in my 4th lap but she is faster or even faster now.
My time dropped a full 10 seconds over non-aero and will get better once I am able to hold the line and go staright.

MUCH more tweaking is needed as I feel that I am not "in control". Maybe I need to move a bit forward or perhaps back. I will play with a) moving bars wider apart b) dropping stem or slamming the stem to get me lower.

Suggestions?
Yes, more time on th track, but T-Ttown in 2.5 hrs away and Kissena does not have the same banking.

Thanks
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Old 07-21-16, 11:14 AM   #25
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So all seemed to be getting there and I did a few 2k's here at Kissena.
Took the bike to Ttown for a timed 2k, that went well if I was biking under the influence.

My start was good and into the transition, then I looked like I had a bit too much to drink. Just had so much trouble steering and in a way you could say overcompensating. Actually almost took the coach out going into turn 1 in my 4th lap but she is faster or even faster now.
My time dropped a full 10 seconds over non-aero and will get better once I am able to hold the line and go staright.

MUCH more tweaking is needed as I feel that I am not "in control". Maybe I need to move a bit forward or perhaps back. I will play with a) moving bars wider apart b) dropping stem or slamming the stem to get me lower.

Suggestions?
Yes, more time on th track, but T-Ttown in 2.5 hrs away and Kissena does not have the same banking.

Thanks
Steering issues could be because of your stem being too long and/or inexperience.

Can you post pics of your setup square-on from the side. A bonus pic of the bike in a trainer and you mounted on it in your TT tuck.
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