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Old 12-03-05, 09:24 AM   #1
Kogswell
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It's time to order some more FG frames and we're thinking about making a model that will be useful for those who ride on the track.

This is our kickoff Request For Comment.

Tell us what you want.

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Old 12-03-05, 11:25 AM   #2
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i'll begin-

lugged steel (of course)
actual track geometry (75 parallel, say?)
fork w/ flatcrown and round blades (1 inch threaded)
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Old 12-03-05, 11:52 AM   #3
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just please offer a drilled fork option.
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Old 12-03-05, 12:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crust & crumb
i'll begin-

lugged steel (of course)
actual track geometry (75 parallel, say?)
fork w/ flatcrown and round blades (1 inch threaded)
you beat me to it CC.

I 'll add no oversize tubing.

Seat tube 75/ Head tube 74.

stiffen the bb area for sprint model.

S/F,
CEYA!
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Old 12-03-05, 01:42 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crust & crumb
Super.

lugged steel

Look for TIG.

actual track geometry

So far we have pretty short chainstays. high bottom bracket and 74 parallel.

fork w/ flatcrown and round blades (1 inch threaded)

Hmmm..,.
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Old 12-03-05, 01:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceya
you beat me to it CC.

S/F,
CEYA!
I'll add no oversize tubing

Really... Last time I asked there was no 25.4mm tubing in Taiwan.

Seat tube 75/ Head tube 74

We had to agree on something.

stiffen the bb area for sprint model

Sprint model, eh? I'll have to check with RS first.
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Old 12-03-05, 02:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surferbruce
just please offer a drilled fork option.
Kogswell - The Fork Is The Frame

Of course. What production builder offers more fork options?
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Old 12-03-05, 02:40 PM   #8
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i see bottle cage bosses. lose em!

if it's not going to be lugged, then put me down for O/S tubing (sorry CEYA)
straight blade fork?
ship the drilled forks with a colour matched plug to hide the hole. like an acorn nut or something.
no brake drilling on the rear.

more than 2 sizes?
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Old 12-03-05, 02:41 PM   #9
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- STEEL

- I would like 74 seat tube and 75 head tube, the bike it will be more easy and fast at handling. More responsive, a 75 even bike will do the frame too hard for the street, So 74 and 75 will do in both worlds.

- Please use 24 mms chain stays and fork blades (both rounded)... the regular road chainstays arent enough for a track because they are flimpsy... tange still is doing those tubes so far today...

- Lugged or not isnt a problem nowadays, whichever will be fine.

- Between 27.5 and 28.5 cms bb hight it will do in both worlds just fine.

- Frame size must be c-t

- Do not add a drill for a rear brake.. the frame it will looks kind'a puaj with that hole there.

- As somebody said, add or sell another fork with the brake drill on it. Somebody would like the bike for racing and a drill in the fork looks kind'a puaj again... (im a classic ex racer ok?)

- DO two models, one for serius track people and other for street people???

- Tubing?.. well any tube Brand will do fine as the frame has the right geometry, but I insist 24 mms rounded chain stays and fork blades is the way to go.


Thanks...
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Old 12-03-05, 05:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baxtefer
i see bottle cage bosses. lose em!

if it's not going to be lugged, then put me down for O/S tubing (sorry CEYA)
straight blade fork?
ship the drilled forks with a colour matched plug to hide the hole. like an acorn nut or something.
no brake drilling on the rear.

more than 2 sizes?
Hmmmm....

How about this - an undrilled tubular bridge with a vent hole that can act as a pilot hole if someone wants to drill. I don't mind undrilled, but I hate not being able to drill.

Same on the front. The crowns are undrilled so we'll just put in a tiny pilot hole.
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Old 12-03-05, 07:38 PM   #11
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Make them big.
60cm c-c should be more readily avaible for track bikes in steel.
thanks!

p
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Old 12-03-05, 08:38 PM   #12
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and make them small. i'd love to get my wife on a tiny track frame. 48cm or so tt.
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Old 12-04-05, 11:11 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultraman6970
- STEEL

- I would like 74 seat tube and 75 head tube, the bike it will be more easy and fast at handling. More responsive, a 75 even bike will do the frame too hard for the street, So 74 and 75 will do in both worlds.

- Please use 24 mms chain stays and fork blades (both rounded)... the regular road chainstays arent enough for a track because they are flimpsy... tange still is doing those tubes so far today...

- Lugged or not isnt a problem nowadays, whichever will be fine.

- Between 27.5 and 28.5 cms bb hight it will do in both worlds just fine.

- Frame size must be c-t

- Do not add a drill for a rear brake.. the frame it will looks kind'a puaj with that hole there.

- As somebody said, add or sell another fork with the brake drill on it. Somebody would like the bike for racing and a drill in the fork looks kind'a puaj again... (im a classic ex racer ok?)

- DO two models, one for serius track people and other for street people???

- Tubing?.. well any tube Brand will do fine as the frame has the right geometry, but I insist 24 mms rounded chain stays and fork blades is the way to go.


Thanks...

Steel, of course.

I like bikes where the head tube is steeper than he seat, so OK on that.

What's the BB drop for 28cm height?

We always spec S/T center-to-top.

Round chain stays it is.
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Old 12-04-05, 11:13 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paloewi
Make them big.
60cm c-c should be more readily avaible for track bikes in steel.
thanks!

51
53.5
56
59
61.5

c-2-t
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Old 12-04-05, 11:22 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surferbruce
and make them small. i'd love to get my wife on a tiny track frame. 48cm or so tt.
Our Model M is available in 46 and 50cm. Takes 26" wheels.

Frame, fork, wheels, brakes - $300 - the wheels are Mavic rims and our fixee hubs.

1-952-445-8804

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Old 12-04-05, 02:59 PM   #16
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don't use dropouts/track ends like the above photo.

S/F,
CEYA!
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Old 12-04-05, 03:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceya
don't use dropouts/track ends like the above photo.
How about the ones that I showed in the first posting? Do those work 4YA?

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Old 12-04-05, 04:23 PM   #18
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yeah they work. have the steel liner for trak ends so paint won't get chip away.

S/F,
CEYA!
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Old 12-04-05, 04:47 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceya
yeah they work. have the steel liner for trak ends so paint won't get chip away.
No liners.

I just rendered them that way to show the raised portion.

They'll just be plain old water-cut, CNC'd detailed, laser engraved 7mm Cro-Mo plate.
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Old 12-04-05, 07:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kogswell
Our Model M is available in 46 and 50cm. Takes 26" wheels.

Frame, fork, wheels, brakes - $300 - the wheels are Mavic rims and our fixee hubs.

1-952-445-8804
PM-ed
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Old 12-05-05, 02:03 PM   #21
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Posted on behalf of a friend who isn't registered:


26.8, 27.0 or 27.2 seatpost for ease of finding seatposts.

TRACK GEOMETRY. Road geometry is too slow for me, and I prefer even off the velo.

1"/threaded head tube. I realize that it's perfectly possible to use 1.125 / threadless set-ups on the track, but it's hard to fine-tune those on the fly, and require too many stems/spacers to be practical for me.

Rear brake bridge for those who can only afford one frame and want to run this freewheeling on the road for training.


I second the BIG comment, as I'm tall and need a 61st/57tt minimum. Please don't make "square" bikes like Surly/soma, 60x60, 56x56, or whatever.


Oh, and seconded on the plate'd track ends, my current velo ride is getting screwed up for lack of proper fork end, losing all the paint from wheel changes.
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Old 12-05-05, 03:58 PM   #22
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[QUOTE=Interlocutor]Posted on behalf of a friend who isn't registered:
[QUOTE]

26.8, 27.0 or 27.2 seatpost for ease of finding seatposts.

27.2

TRACK GEOMETRY. Road geometry is too slow for me, and I prefer even off the velo.

So far I have 75 head and 74 seat. And I'm waiting for consensus a BB drop dimension.

1"/threaded head tube. I realize that it's perfectly possible to use 1.125 / threadless set-ups on the track, but it's hard to fine-tune those on the fly, and require too many stems/spacers to be practical for me.

What we've done recently is to size the head tube for 9/8" steerers and then ship the 1" forks with alloy reducers. It works well and then everyone is happy.

Rear brake bridge for those who can only afford one frame and want to run this freewheeling on the road for training.

See my notes above.

I second the BIG comment, as I'm tall and need a 61st/57tt minimum. Please don't make "square" bikes like Surly/soma, 60x60, 56x56, or whatever.

See my size list above.

Oh, and seconded on the plate'd track ends, my current velo ride is getting screwed up for lack of proper fork end, losing all the paint from wheel changes.

I will take that under advisement.
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Old 12-05-05, 11:07 PM   #23
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27,8 cms BB hight will be fine, or 28 cms to make it even easier. What happend is that we r talking here about an street bike or a track bike?? road BB drop wont work so fine in the track well in a 50 degress velodromo it wont work so fine... the other thought is that we r talking about a frame that can be used averywhere, on the street and maybe like an entry level track racing machine... a lower BB will do the bike not so usable in the track, maybe for KM or persuit but thats it, thats the main reason a 27,5 - 28 cms bb will do fine... i think the best guess is 27.5 just in the middle... (anybody knows why the bb is lower in the persuit and km tt frames, right?)

thanks...
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Old 12-06-05, 12:02 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultraman6970
27,8 cms BB hight will be fine, or 28 cms to make it even easier. What happend is that we r talking here about an street bike or a track bike?? road BB drop wont work so fine in the track well in a 50 degress velodromo it wont work so fine... the other thought is that we r talking about a frame that can be used averywhere, on the street and maybe like an entry level track racing machine... a lower BB will do the bike not so usable in the track, maybe for KM or persuit but thats it, thats the main reason a 27,5 - 28 cms bb will do fine... i think the best guess is 27.5 just in the middle... (anybody knows why the bb is lower in the persuit and km tt frames, right?)

thanks...
Yeah, I want folks to be able to take to this model to a track and do some developement work.

I understand that there is no such thing as a 'general purpose' track bike. But I'd like this model to be serious enough to be taken seriously. I'd like it to be different from the other bikes on the market: the Bianchis and Fujis and the rest. If that means round fork blades, steeper angle and a high BB, then fine.

I've got a working model name for it: CheapTrick.
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Old 12-06-05, 12:22 AM   #25
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Hi again...

Well nobody is using round fork blades nor rounded chain stays anymore, thats classic. That will give at the same time the stiffness enough to be different and fast, I tried time ago a KHS bike and was awefull for a track, and make sense because was made having a letter delivery guy in mind.

Diferentiation, the chain stays and the fork blades will do that, the geometry more aggresive will put the frames in the eye of the people who knows about this stuff. The Price???, a nice paint design and some attractive like CheapTrick! hehehe

THanks
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