Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Tokyo
    Posts
    35
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Grass track racing?


  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    7,819
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    lol

  3. #3
    (((Fully Awake))) Serendipper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    ~Serenading with sensous soliloquies whilst singing supple sentences that are simultaneously suppling my sonnets with serenity serendipitously.~ -Serendipper
    My Bikes
    Guerciotti Pista-Giant Carbon-Bridgestone300- Batavus Type Champion Road Bike, Specialized Hardrock Commuter, On-One The Gimp (SS Rigid MTB/hit by a truck)- Raleigh Sports 3-speed,Gatsby Scorcher, comming soon...The Penny Farthing Highwheel!
    Posts
    5,598
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Is that something like moonshine runnin'?

  4. #4
    Senior Member af895's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    My Bikes
    2003 KHS F20-Westwood folding & enough parts to make several more bikes...
    Posts
    853
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What the fark?!

  5. #5
    (((Fully Awake))) Serendipper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    ~Serenading with sensous soliloquies whilst singing supple sentences that are simultaneously suppling my sonnets with serenity serendipitously.~ -Serendipper
    My Bikes
    Guerciotti Pista-Giant Carbon-Bridgestone300- Batavus Type Champion Road Bike, Specialized Hardrock Commuter, On-One The Gimp (SS Rigid MTB/hit by a truck)- Raleigh Sports 3-speed,Gatsby Scorcher, comming soon...The Penny Farthing Highwheel!
    Posts
    5,598
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    See, I gave up grass for cycling, now this?

    "..Don't...tempt me Frodo!"
    -Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

  6. #6
    Banned.
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Orange County, California
    Posts
    508
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Everyone wants to build a velodrome, well..... get your local parks dept. to put in a grass track. Now, how much banking do you think we can get away with?

  7. #7
    (((Fully Awake))) Serendipper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    ~Serenading with sensous soliloquies whilst singing supple sentences that are simultaneously suppling my sonnets with serenity serendipitously.~ -Serendipper
    My Bikes
    Guerciotti Pista-Giant Carbon-Bridgestone300- Batavus Type Champion Road Bike, Specialized Hardrock Commuter, On-One The Gimp (SS Rigid MTB/hit by a truck)- Raleigh Sports 3-speed,Gatsby Scorcher, comming soon...The Penny Farthing Highwheel!
    Posts
    5,598
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Grass banks would be tres slippery, no?
    Last edited by Serendipper; 12-04-05 at 08:10 PM.
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________

    無上甚深微妙法 .... 百千萬劫難遭遇..... 我今見聞得受持

  8. #8
    spinlikehell mickster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    140
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yup, it is slippery even without banking but riders use fairly wide (28-32mm) tubular tyres made especially for GrassTrack racing. These have a file or diamond tread pattern on them for a bit of grip.

    We've some more photos on our club website at
    http://www.southborough-wheelers.co....rasstrack_2005

    mickster

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Tokyo
    Posts
    35
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mickster
    Yup, it is slippery even without banking but riders use fairly wide (28-32mm) tubular tyres made especially for GrassTrack racing. These have a file or diamond tread pattern on them for a bit of grip.

    We've some more photos on our club website at
    http://www.southborough-wheelers.co....rasstrack_2005

    mickster
    So you seem to know something about it. Care to share?

    thanks

    Peter

  10. #10
    spinlikehell mickster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    140
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm no expert - this was the first Grasstrack meet we've promoted - but the basic formula:

    Where
    Grasstrack racing used to be fairly popular all over the UK - it's particularly big in Scotland where it's often incorporated in a number of the Highland Games held there; there are even riders who make a semi-professional living out of grasstracj racing at these games.
    In the rest of the UK nowadays there is a national grasstrack series and around a dozen or so open meetings held each year during the season.

    The track
    Mark out an oval for the track on a fairly flat patch of land. Most tracks are approx 300-400m round.
    The inside line of the track is marked with a painted line. Coloured pegs and string are then placed around the line to stop riders taking a shorter route round the turns. There's no banking.

    The bikes
    Riders almost exclusively use old skool traditional steel track bikes - the racing can be hard and crashes are fairly frequent, so a tough, dependable (and cheap to repair) bike is essential. The other major consideration is tyre clearance - most modern alloy/carbon frames don't have enough clearance under the fork and at the rear for the wider grasstrack tyres used.
    Grasstrack tyres used to be more readily available but are really hard to find nowadays. Alternatives include Vittoria and Tufo dry CycloCross tyres with a minimal tread. tyres usually are sized 28-32mm and top riders will have several sets depending on how soft / dry / hard the track is. Because of the cornering forces exerted on the tyres on the non-banked track, a few sheets of fabric / tape are wrapped round the tyres and the rim to help keep the tyres glued onto the rim.
    Wheels are almost always trad large-flange Campy / SUntour / Shimano track hubs laced 32h or 36h to old-skool track tubular rims. You don't see many composite tri-spokes at these races
    Gearing will vary depending on the track conditions but I understand that this is uaually in the 76-80 inch range (eg 44x16 to 48x16).
    Cranks will generally be short (165mm) for clearance when cornering.
    The rest of the bike is pretty much the same as for regular hard track racing on a velodrome.

    The racing
    It's insane!! The emphasis is on short, full-gas sprints eg 800m. Riders are held on teh start line and pushed off by holders - as the racing is so fast and short its important to get a good start, so it pays to practice with an experienced pusher-offer.
    Racing tends to err on the side of the physical too, as riders use shoulders, heads and elbows to fight for teh inside line on the sketchy corners.
    Races are similar to hard track, ie sprints, handicaps, devil-takes-the-hindmost, points and scratch races. Due to the lack of banking cornering at speed in a tight packed bunch on a fixed gear bike takes some skill and nerve, and slideouts usually bring half of the field down with them!

    It's a cool and slightly dangerous form of track racing, but y'all should give it a go. Just mark out a 300m oval in yr local park, swipe some traffic cones or similar to mark the inside line, put the widest set of tyres you can fit into yr frame and let rip. When you start off its like being a kid again bombing around the park trying to knock yr mates off their bikes whilst trying to hold the rear wheel from sliding out...! As well as being a blast it'll also probably do wonders for yr bike handling skills.

    Cheers

    mickster

  11. #11
    Banned.
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Orange County, California
    Posts
    508
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    C'mon, lets step it up a notch and get some banking. We'll use cyclocross tires.

  12. #12
    ` schloe mo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    My Bikes
    vintage carlton track, vintage carlton tourer(fixed)
    Posts
    915
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    hey there.. first post in the track forum.

    i just picked up a Carlton path racer frame...
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/94123693@N00/sets/1338981/
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #13
    Ha Ha! Boss. SpokesInMyPoop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    pdx, or
    My Bikes
    Univega custom 14sp mixte + Sears 3sp groceryhoggg
    Posts
    879
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    omg
    Roll of quarters... wait, that's not a roll of- AH! There it is!

  14. #14
    spinlikehell mickster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    140
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by schloe mo
    hey there.. first post in the track forum.

    i just picked up a Carlton path racer frame...
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/94123693@N00/sets/1338981/
    That's a nice looking frame. Martin Coopland is a bit of a grasstrack legend...
    FGG has a picture of one of his rides featuring the taped on grasstrack tubs I mentioned in the post above:
    http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2003/coopland.htm

    Enjoy that frame - it's a beauty!

    mickster

  15. #15
    ` schloe mo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    My Bikes
    vintage carlton track, vintage carlton tourer(fixed)
    Posts
    915
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    thanks much. the first google i did for grasstrack brought up an article by Martin. he definitely knows his stuff. it's a largely undiscovered sport over here from what i can tell..
    who knows, maybe this frame will be on the grass in the spring.

  16. #16
    Vanned. worker4youth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    My Bikes
    2006 Motobecane Le Champ SL, 2006 Mercier Kilo TT, 2004 Gary Fisher Tassajara
    Posts
    1,244
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes, over at cycling.tv, there is coverage of the 2004(5?) West Indies vs. the World track cycling. One of the tracks was grass. There is a spectacular crash in that clip...and grass rash is almost as bad a road rash

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Mickster has summed it up pretty well really, a few minor points though.



    Quote Originally Posted by mickster
    Grasstrack tyres used to be more readily available but are really hard to find nowadays. Alternatives include Vittoria and Tufo dry CycloCross tyres with a minimal tread. tyres usually are sized 28-32mm and top riders will have several sets depending on how soft / dry / hard the track is. Because of the cornering forces exerted on the tyres on the non-banked track, a few sheets of fabric / tape are wrapped round the tyres and the rim to help keep the tyres glued onto the rim.Wheels are almost always trad large-flange Campy / SUntour / Shimano track hubs laced 32h or 36h to old-skool track tubular rims. You don't see many composite tri-spokes at these races
    Gearing will vary depending on the track conditions but I understand that this is uaually in the 76-80 inch range (eg 44x16 to 48x16).
    Cranks will generally be short (165mm) for clearance when cornering.
    The rest of the bike is pretty much the same as for regular hard track racing on a velodrome.
    If your tubulars tyres are stuck on properly it's unnecessary to have extra tape wrapped around the rim, indeed I don't like any tape on the outside as it can reduce the grip levels. Many riders are using clincher (wired on) tyres these days rather than tubular tyres so gluing is not needed.
    With a reasonably high bottom bracket there is no problem riding 170mm cranks.


    The racing
    It's insane!! The emphasis is on short, full-gas sprints eg 800m. Riders are held on teh start line and pushed off by holders - as the racing is so fast and short its important to get a good start, so it pays to practice with an experienced pusher-offer.
    Racing tends to err on the side of the physical too, as riders use shoulders, heads and elbows to fight for teh inside line on the sketchy corners.Races are similar to hard track, ie sprints, handicaps, devil-takes-the-hindmost, points and scratch races. Due to the lack of banking cornering at speed in a tight packed bunch on a fixed gear bike takes some skill and nerve, and slideouts usually bring half of the field down with them!

    It's a cool and slightly dangerous form of track racing, but y'all should give it a go. Just mark out a 300m oval in yr local park, swipe some traffic cones or similar to mark the inside line, put the widest set of tyres you can fit into yr frame and let rip. When you start off its like being a kid again bombing around the park trying to knock yr mates off their bikes whilst trying to hold the rear wheel from sliding out...! As well as being a blast it'll also probably do wonders for yr bike handling skills.

    Cheers

    mickster
    Ride like that and you'll soon make yourself very unpopular!! Grass track can be quite physical, but generally it isn't.
    The racing is a little different to hard track events. Sprints are held over 400-800m and are not held as match sprints, but with 4-8 riders with no stalling or trackstands, just hard racing all the way to the finishing line.
    There are longer events also, the standard one being 5 miles. Depending on the track conditions that's likely to take anywhere between 12 and 17 minutes!!
    Other events are short handicap events and Devil-take-the hindmosts (miss and out in US terminology)

    There are loads of photos here
    HTML Code:
    http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/gallery/2003/Larry/biggleswade/index.htm
    taken from the British Cycling website.

    I agree with Mickster...it's great fun

    Richard Kennedy
    UK grass track rider.

  18. #18
    Me talk pretty one day. eyefloater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    2,073
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That looks like a ridiculous amount of fun.

    What do most of the people getting into the sport ride - standard issue track frames or old "real" grass track framesets? I recognized some Condors and Fort, but a lot of those other bikes looked custom or a few decades old.

  19. #19
    ` schloe mo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    My Bikes
    vintage carlton track, vintage carlton tourer(fixed)
    Posts
    915
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i've heard that Bob Jackson frames have grass-friendly geometry..

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I used to ride a 1970s Bob Jackson frame, but now ride a custom built one (I'm in some of the photos, I'm wearing the white skinsuit with a red and blue stripe)

    Most track frames will be ok at the rear, if it's close clearance then just use a gear combination that moves the wheel nearer to the back of the rear dropouts! The problem tends to be with modern track forks, older forks or road forks should have enough tyre clearance.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Iffacus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    trying to find my way home on Cannock Chase
    Posts
    213
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Kennedy
    I used to ride a 1970s Bob Jackson frame, but now ride a custom built one (I'm in some of the photos, I'm wearing the white skinsuit with a red and blue stripe)

    Most track frames will be ok at the rear, if it's close clearance then just use a gear combination that moves the wheel nearer to the back of the rear dropouts! The problem tends to be with modern track forks, older forks or road forks should have enough tyre clearance.
    Rik is being very modest here, these are the colors of a National Champion (yes he will probably hate me for saying this)
    Prerace, I use a misplaced faith in my innate ability, with a dose of needless optimism. For recovery, I use self-delusional techniques.

  22. #22
    Back to being a Clyde.... ZappCatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Santa Clara
    My Bikes
    Giant OCR1(specialized carbon seatpost,Terry Fly sadle, Syntace C2): Leader TT frame, Easton EC70fork, Aerolite bars, nashbar bullhorn, Titan Wheels: Fuji Track Pro(2003)
    Posts
    1,546
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    COOL!!!!!
    Current national champion grass racer? If not, what event?

  23. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Not current national champion - I've missed most of the year with illness- but yes, ex national champion on the grass track. We have 3 national championships for men in the UK, 400metres, 800 metres and 8 kilometres. (as a rough guide, depending on the ground conditions, an 800m sprint on grass takes approximately the same time as 1000 - 1100 metres on the hard track)
    There's currently only one national championship for ladies - 800m - but there is talk of adding a distance race aswell to bring more parity with the men. Interestingly, Vicky Pendleton (current world sprint champion) began her racing career on grass track at the age of 12, she was already several times national champion before she started racing on hard tracks! (she still rides the grass track when her racing/training program allow) Craig Maclean was also a regular grass track rider in his youth.

  24. #24
    Let's roll 2speedfiend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Beer City
    My Bikes
    lots of 'em
    Posts
    59
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Some where in Kansas there's a group doing grass racing.
    I know because I sold them a bunch of track stuff. As there is no velodrome in Kansas, I asked what it was for. Turns out they were racing on the green stuff. Can't remember what city though...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •