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View Poll Results: Are 36 hole hubs/rims good?
YES - I never understood low spoke count 6 28.57%
Yes - I like them 12 57.14%
Huh? 1 4.76%
No - 32 holes are fine 2 9.52%
NO - I want 20 front and 28 rear 0 0%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-12-05, 06:13 AM   #1
Kogswell
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36 hole components

We've got a new hubset on the drawing board and I'd like to make it 36 hole.

Any interest in 36 hole hubs, rims, wheels?
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Old 12-12-05, 08:37 AM   #2
lotek
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absolutely interested in a 36 hole wheelset.
would it be too much to ask for polished
hubs?
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Old 12-12-05, 11:12 AM   #3
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- Polished hubs,
- 36 holes,
- 120 mms please..
- bolt-on skewers in that way its posible to put a regular skwer and use the wheel in the road and in the track hehe
- CHEAP TOOO
thanks
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Old 12-12-05, 11:46 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultraman6970
- Polished hubs,
- 36 holes,
- 120 mms please..
- bolt-on skewers in that way its posible to put a regular skwer and use the wheel in the road and in the track hehe
- CHEAP TOOO
thanks
Keep it solid axle please. Bolt on skewers are not always allowed at all tracks, and if you really need to have a hollow axle, then the axle and skewer are not that expensive. Most people that I know that rock a fix or ride track use solid axles anyways. Knowing the way Kogswell works, the hubs will not be ridiculously expensive, so affording the (ahem) "upgrade" to hollow skewer axles shouldn't be a significant factor. Skewere type axles are okay for the front wheel, but if you're racing track, then on the back is a bad idea. You'll pull the wheel forward in the dropout and be stuck with a mess. To tighten one of those down tight enough ends up stretching the skewer and eventually they snap. Not a pretty situation to be stuck in.
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Old 12-12-05, 02:54 PM   #5
Kogswell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkercycles
when you get old and fat like me, those extra four spokes are nice insurance/

DW
I come from the more skinny spokes are better than fewer fat spokes school of engineering.
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Old 12-12-05, 03:56 PM   #6
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Yes... SOLID AXLE please.
Polished is good, so is anodized(sp) colors.
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Old 12-12-05, 06:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kogswell
I come from the more skinny spokes are better than fewer fat spokes school of engineering.
I agree.
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Old 12-12-05, 07:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkercycles
when you get old and fat like me, those extra four spokes are nice insurance
I'll add this Don - "When you get old and fat like me and ride on a steep track those extra four spokes are nice insurance."

36h, shiny and solid axle for moi!
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Old 12-12-05, 10:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkercycles
when you get old and fat like me, those extra four spokes are nice insurance/

DW
I never understood the point of having a 32/32 spoke wheelset. Just put 4 extra spokes on the rear because it has 50% more weight to deal with than the front. Then throw in the fact that the drive side spokes (cassette wheel) are fatiguing way faster than any of the other spokes and being a weight weenie makes no logical sense.
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Old 12-13-05, 04:31 AM   #10
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Will these be cartridge bearing hubs? They're probably much cheaper than loose ball hubs to manufacture where you have to worry about hub cups and axle cones. Replacement sealed bearing units are available at any auto supply store.

But on the other hand if these will be true track hubs, how much abuse (dirt, water) will they be subjected to? Cup, ball & cone hubs should last forever in track use.
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Old 12-13-05, 06:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike T.
Will these be cartridge bearing hubs? They're probably much cheaper than loose ball hubs to manufacture where you have to worry about hub cups and axle cones. Replacement sealed bearing units are available at any auto supply store.

But on the other hand if these will be true track hubs, how much abuse (dirt, water) will they be subjected to? Cup, ball & cone hubs should last forever in track use.
This is one of my favorite rants, so I apologize to those who've heard it before.

There are three standard bearing/axle configurations:
  • Shell, loose ball cup, loose balls, loose ball cone, axle
  • Shell, cartridge bearing, cartridge 'cone', axle
  • Shell, cartridge bearing, alxe

All of these configurations use locknuts.

Our hubs use the last config. The design is very simple, just a shell and an axle. The bearings are press fit into the shell and onto the axle. This config was first seen in 1971 when Phil Wood used it. It has a couple of advantages. Because there are only two machined components, there are fewer components that need to be dimensionally correct - fewer points of dimensional variablity - greater chance of dimensional accuracy.

The simple config has another advantage: it allows the axles to be larger. Our hubs use downhill MTB axles and bearings. So they work as well off road or on broken pavement as they do on a smooth track.

So that's the config.

Then there's manufacturing tolerances. There are two things that contribute to dimensional accuracy in manufacturing: the ability of the machine to be accurate and the labor involved in checking the results.

The dimensions are also spec'd to what is know in the business as 'tight'. The bearing have to be pressed onto the axle and into the shell.

Tight, close tolerance bearing fit has an advantage: the bearings don't move inside the shell or on the axle. So they stay perfectly oriented which greatly reduces wear. And, since they don't move inside the shell, the shell does not become deformed. Which is good because once a shell is deformed, any bearing you put in will wear quickly.

Our hubs are made using the simple config and we pay for close tolerance machining.

All of this results in hubs that are strong and simply don't wear. Ask around. Ask Kogswell hub owners. They'll tell you that they don't have hub issues.

The comical part of all this is that these 'tight' bearing hubs don't cost a lot more. But since they don't wear, since the don't fall apart, since they run for mile after miile without the need for replacement, they're not attractive to everyone involved in the bicycle industry.

We may well be shooting ourselves in the foot by offering top quality products at factory direct prices. But it seems to work for Michael Dell and we think it works for our customers too.
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Old 12-14-05, 10:41 AM   #12
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Well.. ok then... solid axles... well about the 4 xtra spokes? Who cares about the weight? sometimes the streess is so big that the only thing need in the tracks is something solid. BTW in a race nobody have enough time to even think in "oh... this crap its too heavy" because everybody is tired hehehe... 36 spokes is enough for everybody, I tryed 32 long time ago and OMG in the curves i was able to feel how flimsy the wheels were... well this was like 15 years ago so now the stuff is kind'a different.. but yes... 36 is enough... would u think on 40? for extra big and strong people? kind'a daniel morelon guys? hehehe

THanks...
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Old 12-16-05, 11:28 AM   #13
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Would love to see 36 spoke, high-flange, qr-equipped, road hubs...!
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